leffe186 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Liverpool losses continue. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21657580 There are some "commercial" deals to kick in that are mentioned in the article, plus their wage bill, while still high, should have come down markedly. I mean, the longer they stay out of the CL the better, but I don't see them having any trouble getting the money down. As the Swiss Ramble article from last year (http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2012/05/liverpool-keep-car-running.html) suggests, their commercial income is massive. Seventh in Europe a couple of years ago, even without the new deals. He looks at the shirt sponsorship and kit manufacturer deals, and ranks them joint second in the world, level with Man U and behind only Barcelona. Ultimately, their financial position is being maintained by bullshit. Although they have not been great for a few years, and the Suarez stuff in particular looked embarrassing, they have managed to keep that brand ticking over. Rodgers is a very apt choice of manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 This is one of the things that pisses me off more than anything. They have done jack shit for ages really and have been really badly run for a number of years (in a football sense). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Brummie made similar posts before - quite a few as I recall - and I knew my time might come. You know full well that he will be a Villa fan forever, and probably always go to a few games, maybe even take the children. It won't be the same. I feel somewhat childish in thinking that an Arsenal lottery win would be the final straw. I mean, I sucked up Chelsea and Man City, plus several years of missing the Premier League boat. Why am I allowed to throw my toys out of the pram now? I admit, it is hypocritical for me to moan about the huge amounts of money that gets chucked at some clubs, when for four years recently, we spent more money on transfers than 90 percent of clubs in the league. Slight ramble, but I was in a low-grade card shop the other day, here in Warwickshire, and they had this display of revoltingly garish football club calendars. They had Liverpool, Man United and Man City. Now, call me cynical, but I imagine, say, four years ago even, you'd have to travel at least 80 miles north to find anywhere selling Manchester City merchandise. That's no longer the case. I walk around my local towns and frequently see people wearing Man City shirts / scarves / yada yada whatever. I would imagine that a few years ago, these people would probably have latched on to Man United. Then again, I live a 15 mins drive from Coventry, and when I walk around, say, Warwick, Leamington Spa, Stratford Upon Avon, places which (esp the first two) you'd expect to be in the natural orbit of Coventry City, I never, ever see people wearing Coventry shirts or scarves. Literally, never. But I very frequently see people wearing Villa colours. Also, I very frequently see a lot of other Villa fans getting on the train down here when I take public transport to matches. Were I a Coventry City fan, this would annoy the s*** out of me, in the same way Man City fans annoy me now. I guess, the lower down the pyramid you go, the larger the choice of teams more successful to which plastics can attach themselves (even teams who haven't won anything for years). I sometimes think football is just cyclical. We are currently in a period of being s***, but it won't be too long before we have a decent period again. The same goes for Newcastle, Spurs, Everton etc etc, lots of clubs. What won't change, though, is the fact that to really consistently do well and win stuff (Man United are a slight exception here), you need a rich sugar daddy. Spurs getting into the CL this year won't be enough, they need to do it year after year. See also, Everton, when they made it. The FFP stuff, if you actually look at it, looks more like a bunch of measures made to defend the status quo, rather than encourage challenges to it. Football used to be cyclical. Teams would do well for a few years then fall back to the pack. I am pretty sure when we played in the 74 Cup Final, we had won more than Liverpool at that point. Unfortunately, it looks like the trophies will just be rotated between the 4-5 richest clubs whose fans then turn round and mock everyone else for not winning things. It is depressing when you look at the last 10-15 years and pretty much everything has been won by Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool. And all you hear is their fans complaining if they don't win something one year and how it is a crisis. Arsenal have won things consistently throughout their history but there have been several 10 or 15 year periods when they haven't. Their time will come again. Man Utd were similar and it was only in the 90s that they started winning trophies so consistently. You want to have that hope that your team can win something and with a good collection of players, good managment and a bit of luck, it might just be your year instead of thinking with every good performance that the better players will be cherry-picked by the richer teams. As the options reduce for other teams, is it no wonder that supporters of other clubs start thinking what is the point? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 So like Brummie said at best it will stop start ups protecting the status quo. It gives the edge back to the likes of Manu over citeh and that's about it. Ffp should protect clubs like Leeds, Portsmouth & Darlington but those situations haven't even been considered, it's about keeping the rich rich, the big big, and not allow any challenge to that. It won't fix the underlying financial problems in Football (ones that have been their for decades). Just saying its not pointless, their's nothing I hate more than the Chelsea/Man City takeover scenarios and I think if it was allowed to happen again that would be it for me and Football (certainly close to it anyway). If citeh want to buy Messi for £200m under ffp what will stop them? Nothing. They buy him, then get a new goal post sponsorship deal worth £300m to cover the cost and ffp won't do jack shit as they'll be battered in court and lose all power they think they have. It's a farce, I can't take it seriously. They've sponsored absolutely everything they own right to the limits of believability and beyond and its gained them a relatively small extra sum of cash per season (£10-15m more than the going rate). I'd rather have these clubs having to do their utmost to funnel some limited extra funds into the club than have then simply allowed to put whatever they want in at the drop of a hat. I wish they were investigated and stopped completely, but obviously that isn't going to happen because the games run by crooks. Also what would you have liked them to put in place to stop the possibility of Man City or anyone else going to court against any FFP rules? I honestly don't know what can be done, or an alternative, just seems to me they are pissing in the wind with this and making a lot of noise to detract from my perceived perception that this isnt going to benefit the clubs that it should do. The game is run by crooks something we both agree on. Do you think these crooks are suddenly going to start trying to see a fair playing field or do they have another agenda? To start with FFP was to protect fans losing their clubs or putting them in a serious position that it could happen like Leeds, Pompy etc...but in the end its turned in to capping Citeh's spending, somewhere along the line something got lost. I also question their real power, to stop someone spending their money how they want, is that morally and legally right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Excluding profit on player sales of £26.9m and interest waiver of £20.3m, the #AVFC 2012 loss would have been a hefty £64.9m. Going down could see them deep in the shit looking at that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JS Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Excluding profit on player sales of £26.9m and interest waiver of £20.3m, the #AVFC 2012 loss would have been a hefty £64.9m. Going down could see them deep in the s*** looking at that Beautiful, isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Excluding profit on player sales of £26.9m and interest waiver of £20.3m, the #AVFC 2012 loss would have been a hefty £64.9m. Going down could see them deep in the s*** looking at that Beautiful, isn't it? I wouldnt lose too much sleep over it but it is worrying for football how some clubs are heading #AVFC 2012 net debt up from £113.7m to £121.5m: £107.1m to Lerner and £15.1m to bank less £0.7m cash. Randy Lerner put £10m into #AVFC in 2012, so has now provided around £240m of funding, split between loans and capital injections. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Villa have more debt than us now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Excluding profit on player sales of £26.9m and interest waiver of £20.3m, the #AVFC 2012 loss would have been a hefty £64.9m. Going down could see them deep in the shit looking at that In what kind of world do profits from player sales get excluded, though? It's like saying "well, without her breasts, she'd be an absolute munter". It is almost all money loaned to Lerner, in any case, and they halved the losses according to these figures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Excluding profit on player sales of £26.9m and interest waiver of £20.3m, the #AVFC 2012 loss would have been a hefty £64.9m. Going down could see them deep in the shit looking at that In what kind of world do profits from player sales get excluded, though? It's like saying "well, without her breasts, she'd be an absolute munter". It is almost all money loaned to Lerner, in any case, and they halved the losses according to these figures. In the world where you cant include them more than once. You cant assume player sales will keep you afloat forever, our losses didnt cease to happen overnight so i assume you will post similar figures should you go down? How long before Randy says 'fuck this shit'? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Excluding profit on player sales of £26.9m and interest waiver of £20.3m, the #AVFC 2012 loss would have been a hefty £64.9m. Going down could see them deep in the shit looking at that In what kind of world do profits from player sales get excluded, though? It's like saying "well, without her breasts, she'd be an absolute munter". It is almost all money loaned to Lerner, in any case, and they halved the losses according to these figures. In the world where you cant include them more than once. You cant assume player sales will keep you afloat forever, our losses didnt cease to happen overnight so i assume you will post similar figures should you go down? How long before Randy says 'fuck this shit'? Spent around 10 years with the arse end of the NFL at the Cleveland Browns, but he left as soon as he could. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 sportingintellegance tweeted this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Well jel to see a chairman with ambition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I'd say desperation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieT Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 When are our results due? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Excluding profit on player sales of £26.9m and interest waiver of £20.3m, the #AVFC 2012 loss would have been a hefty £64.9m. Going down could see them deep in the shit looking at that In what kind of world do profits from player sales get excluded, though? It's like saying "well, without her breasts, she'd be an absolute munter". It is almost all money loaned to Lerner, in any case, and they halved the losses according to these figures. In the world where you cant include them more than once. You cant assume player sales will keep you afloat forever, our losses didnt cease to happen overnight so i assume you will post similar figures should you go down? How long before Randy says 'fuck this shit'? Spent around 10 years with the arse end of the NFL at the Cleveland Browns, but he left as soon as he could. I think he's said fuck it already, look where our cost cutting has landed us. I'd imagine your figures were helped enormously by selling one player for £35m. I honestly think that's the best piece of business ever. re selling players to get the figures looking nicer, our problem was that too many relics bought by MON sucked their contracts dry and walked out for nowt. Cuellar, Reo-Coker, Beye, Heskey, the likes of them. The difference between us and, say, Spurs, is that Spurs maintain the quality and value of their squad cleverly over a period of time. We have been the precise opposite, and it is that which has contributed most to where we are now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Excluding profit on player sales of £26.9m and interest waiver of £20.3m, the #AVFC 2012 loss would have been a hefty £64.9m. Going down could see them deep in the s*** looking at that In what kind of world do profits from player sales get excluded, though? It's like saying "well, without her breasts, she'd be an absolute munter". It is almost all money loaned to Lerner, in any case, and they halved the losses according to these figures. In the world where you cant include them more than once. You cant assume player sales will keep you afloat forever, our losses didnt cease to happen overnight so i assume you will post similar figures should you go down? How long before Randy says 'f*** this s***'? Spent around 10 years with the arse end of the NFL at the Cleveland Browns, but he left as soon as he could. I think he's said f*** it already, look where our cost cutting has landed us. I'd imagine your figures were helped enormously by selling one player for £35m. I honestly think that's the best piece of business ever. re selling players to get the figures looking nicer, our problem was that too many relics bought by MON sucked their contracts dry and walked out for nowt. Cuellar, Reo-Coker, Beye, Heskey, the likes of them. The difference between us and, say, Spurs, is that Spurs maintain the quality and value of their squad cleverly over a period of time. We have been the precise opposite, and it is that which has contributed most to where we are now. It's an illustration of how much impact excessive wages can have. At least if you go down this year, many of the big earners will be out of the way. QPR will fold. The other big difference is your commercial income, which IIRC is not great - 18% of your revenue. In 2010/11, when your revenue was still very strong (24th in Europe), Hamburg, in 18th, had more than three times as much commercial income as you. I don't know what the solution is, there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2294521/Nick-Harris-West-Ham-mortgage-60m-TV-money-bid-manage-debts.html Missed this article. Not a surprise, but interesting to hear that only six clubs are supposed to have mortgaged next year's TV revenue. Thought it might have been more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 When are our results due? NEWCASTLE United are back in the black and that has nothing to do with a new third strip, European kit or fancy training gear put out by the club shop. No, in what is becoming a spring-time tradition, United are set to take the wraps off their latest set of financial figures this week – and The Journal understands the news is good. Not only have they turned in an operating profit for 2011/12, they have also recorded an overall profit which reverses the trend of losses which reached its nadir two years ago with a £33.5m deficit. Expect United to quite rightly trumpet their sound financials over the course of the week, which seem to support the Mike Ashley approach the club embarked on following their unseemly relegation in 2009. Read more: Journal Live http://www.journallive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2013/03/26/newcastle-united-are-back-in-the-black-61634-33058940/#ixzz2Odlkny6n Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Good news, they're going to be coining it next season then unless we make a major investments on/off field which I can't really see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Good news, they're going to be coining it next season then unless we make a major investments on/off field which I can't really see. Coining it in how? Ashley going to start taking a wage? We'll see I guess, but bar paying off debt, I'd be very surprised if money generated by NUFC doesn't remain to be invested in NUFC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Good news, they're going to be coining it next season then unless we make a major investments on/off field which I can't really see. Coining it in how? Ashley going to start taking a wage? We'll see I guess, but bar paying off debt, I'd be very surprised if money generated by NUFC doesn't remain to be invested in NUFC. I meant the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 The club financially is in it's best position since the mid 90's imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Good news, they're going to be coining it next season then unless we make a major investments on/off field which I can't really see. Coining it in how? Ashley going to start taking a wage? We'll see I guess, but bar paying off debt, I'd be very surprised if money generated by NUFC doesn't remain to be invested in NUFC. I meant the club. Ah right, hope so. Been a while since we could allude to us having some sort of 'War Chest'. Mmmmmmm, 'Waaaaaar Cheeesssssssst'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 3 years of an extra £15-20m, even if it is getting £45-60m off the money owed to him it's better than what most clubs will do with it. I think we will spend it though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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