Newcastle United 2 - 2 West Brom - 18/01/10 - post match reaction from page 27

[midds]

It's the local paper and they're hardly gonna go in slating the players. Lee Ryder's up the club's arse more than Craig Hope is.

 

He needn't slate them - just needs to be honest. We've got eyes. 

[Yorkie]

Oh aye, i know. Any mug could get a job at the Chronicle by the looks of things, due to the fact that every article they print is head-over-heels with bias for the club. That's not necassarily a bad thing - like i say, it's the local paper and we need everyone on side if we're gonna go up - just look at the shit-stirring the local Derby paper caused.

 

It's just people's apparant surprise that has - surprised - me. Don't see why anyone would expect anything different.

[madras]

smith may not leave all the work to someone else....he doesn't do it either. nolan gets forward and helps out defensivly. smith is a slightly advanced centre half. i think you may have it the wrong way round. maybe nolan would be better if he could take a breather in trying to do the box to box job that he hasn't the legs for while smith does....................you see, i still dont know.

 

Nolans just slower off the ball in general, so i dont see him being able to play a solid part in either going backwards or fowards even if he limited his game to only that.

so nolan attempts box to box and does it poorly, what does smith do ? maybe if when we attacked smith pushed up 10-20yds or so he'd be another option to keep possession (even butt knows you can't just be a defensive midfielder for 90mins). of all the players available to us i'd be choosing 2 from guthrie,nolan and barton to play centre mid.

 

 

 

 

Nolan pushes up into the area during our attacks to be an option, smith stays in the middle of the pitch roughly 5 yards up from the centre circle, the ideal position for a defensive midfielder. During attacks Smith should be the emergency option, always going to be open if everyone else is covered. Granted he passed s**** tonight, but during attacks the job of a holding midfielder is to be open and and easy pass.

do you really believe football is played like that, rigid positioning  and movement like subbuteo players ?

the quicker you get rid of of the idea of defensive/attacking midfielders the better. i may even print your post off so i can have the pleasure of scrumpling it up and throwing it in the bin.

[macca888]

aahhhhhhh, I have just cottoned on. Lee Ryders marks were not out of 10, but out of 50.

[Cronky]

Local journos rely on players for interviews and titbits of gossip, so it's in their interests to maintain good relationships. Having said that, Lee Ryder's comments are exceptionally grovelly there.

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

smith may not leave all the work to someone else....he doesn't do it either. nolan gets forward and helps out defensivly. smith is a slightly advanced centre half. i think you may have it the wrong way round. maybe nolan would be better if he could take a breather in trying to do the box to box job that he hasn't the legs for while smith does....................you see, i still dont know.

 

Nolans just slower off the ball in general, so i dont see him being able to play a solid part in either going backwards or fowards even if he limited his game to only that.

so nolan attempts box to box and does it poorly, what does smith do ? maybe if when we attacked smith pushed up 10-20yds or so he'd be another option to keep possession (even butt knows you can't just be a defensive midfielder for 90mins). of all the players available to us i'd be choosing 2 from guthrie,nolan and barton to play centre mid.

 

 

 

 

Nolan pushes up into the area during our attacks to be an option, smith stays in the middle of the pitch roughly 5 yards up from the centre circle, the ideal position for a defensive midfielder. During attacks Smith should be the emergency option, always going to be open if everyone else is covered. Granted he passed s**** tonight, but during attacks the job of a holding midfielder is to be open and and easy pass.

do you really believe football is played like that, rigid positioning  and movement like subbuteo players ?

the quicker you get rid of of the idea of defensive/attacking midfielders the better. i may even print your post off so i can have the pleasure of scrumpling it up and throwing it in the bin.

 

Think you're speaking a bit too soon there madras... surely the holding midfielder is the most trendy position now, and discipline is the key to playing that role well?

[Optimistic Nut]

Have to admit I'm getting more fed up with Smith. His one role these days seems to be to sit in front of the back four and break things up, but recently, and Monday night in particular, there were several instances where WBA broke and the central midfield was nowhere to be seen. Get rid asap imo, or even now, drop him for Guthrie.

[madras]

smith may not leave all the work to someone else....he doesn't do it either. nolan gets forward and helps out defensivly. smith is a slightly advanced centre half. i think you may have it the wrong way round. maybe nolan would be better if he could take a breather in trying to do the box to box job that he hasn't the legs for while smith does....................you see, i still dont know.

 

Nolans just slower off the ball in general, so i dont see him being able to play a solid part in either going backwards or fowards even if he limited his game to only that.

so nolan attempts box to box and does it poorly, what does smith do ? maybe if when we attacked smith pushed up 10-20yds or so he'd be another option to keep possession (even butt knows you can't just be a defensive midfielder for 90mins). of all the players available to us i'd be choosing 2 from guthrie,nolan and barton to play centre mid.

 

 

 

 

Nolan pushes up into the area during our attacks to be an option, smith stays in the middle of the pitch roughly 5 yards up from the centre circle, the ideal position for a defensive midfielder. During attacks Smith should be the emergency option, always going to be open if everyone else is covered. Granted he passed s**** tonight, but during attacks the job of a holding midfielder is to be open and and easy pass.

do you really believe football is played like that, rigid positioning  and movement like subbuteo players ?

the quicker you get rid of of the idea of defensive/attacking midfielders the better. i may even print your post off so i can have the pleasure of scrumpling it up and throwing it in the bin.

 

Think you're speaking a bit too soon there madras... surely the holding midfielder is the most trendy position now, and discipline is the key to playing that role well?

the holding midfielder is a position not a designated player. any and every player on the pitch should MOVE to the area on the pitch which he considers best for his team and his teammates cover accordingly. that means if enrique goes forward someone takes notice of the gap and doesn't go to left back but takes up a position in order to cover if we lose possession.

 

have you wondered why teams can playe 3 men against enrique/jonas...it's because another midsfielder can come over as cover to the full back and wide midfielder as they don't need to mark the "defensive midfielder" as he will rigidly stay in his position adding f*** all to our possession and forward momentum.

also if both midfielders use their heads then the one who makes the move forward should be the better placed of the two (not a pre designated player) it means the other can lie deeper,perhaps having a breather or witing for a gap to open for him to make a move and someone else looks to cover (remember again cover doesn't mean taking up that position but simple getting into a position to get back should we lose possession.) it also makes it much harder to mark them if the defending team don't know which one or both will push on. as it is they only have to mark nolan.

 

it's called movement, it's why forwards drop deep hoping a defender comes with them and it creates a gap in behind them hopefully for a midfielder to realise and get into, it's why defenders play the ball to a midfielder with his back to goal and get it straight back in the hope the player drags someone out of position and leaves a gap for the attacking team to exploit.

 

i can't believe i'm even having to explain this. FM has f***ed the nations ability to think about football on the grass but only in narrow defined terms of a gpc game.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I've never played FM in my life, for the record.

 

I know what you're saying, and we do lack movement throughout the team... especially in midfield. But it's a bit harsh to single out Smith when he normally does a large part of his job quite well. He didn't against West Brom, but their movement was too much for most of our team.

 

We know that the 'one goes forward, the other covers' idea is great in theory but even the best players can't always execute it. And Smith and Nolan definitely aren't the best players.

[TRon]

smith may not leave all the work to someone else....he doesn't do it either. nolan gets forward and helps out defensivly. smith is a slightly advanced centre half. i think you may have it the wrong way round. maybe nolan would be better if he could take a breather in trying to do the box to box job that he hasn't the legs for while smith does....................you see, i still dont know.

 

Nolans just slower off the ball in general, so i dont see him being able to play a solid part in either going backwards or fowards even if he limited his game to only that.

so nolan attempts box to box and does it poorly, what does smith do ? maybe if when we attacked smith pushed up 10-20yds or so he'd be another option to keep possession (even butt knows you can't just be a defensive midfielder for 90mins). of all the players available to us i'd be choosing 2 from guthrie,nolan and barton to play centre mid.

 

 

 

 

Nolan pushes up into the area during our attacks to be an option, smith stays in the middle of the pitch roughly 5 yards up from the centre circle, the ideal position for a defensive midfielder. During attacks Smith should be the emergency option, always going to be open if everyone else is covered. Granted he passed s**** tonight, but during attacks the job of a holding midfielder is to be open and and easy pass.

do you really believe football is played like that, rigid positioning  and movement like subbuteo players ?

the quicker you get rid of of the idea of defensive/attacking midfielders the better. i may even print your post off so i can have the pleasure of scrumpling it up and throwing it in the bin.

 

Think you're speaking a bit too soon there madras... surely the holding midfielder is the most trendy position now, and discipline is the key to playing that role well?

the holding midfielder is a position not a designated player. any and every player on the pitch should MOVE to the area on the pitch which he considers best for his team and his teammates cover accordingly. that means if enrique goes forward someone takes notice of the gap and doesn't go to left back but takes up a position in order to cover if we lose possession.

 

have you wondered why teams can playe 3 men against enrique/jonas...it's because another midsfielder can come over as cover to the full back and wide midfielder as they don't need to mark the "defensive midfielder" as he will rigidly stay in his position adding f*** all to our possession and forward momentum.

also if both midfielders use their heads then the one who makes the move forward should be the better placed of the two (not a pre designated player) it means the other can lie deeper,perhaps having a breather or witing for a gap to open for him to make a move and someone else looks to cover (remember again cover doesn't mean taking up that position but simple getting into a position to get back should we lose possession.) it also makes it much harder to mark them if the defending team don't know which one or both will push on. as it is they only have to mark nolan.

 

it's called movement, it's why forwards drop deep hoping a defender comes with them and it creates a gap in behind them hopefully for a midfielder to realise and get into, it's why defenders play the ball to a midfielder with his back to goal and get it straight back in the hope the player drags someone out of position and leaves a gap for the attacking team to exploit.

 

i can't believe i'm even having to explain this. FM has f***ed the nations ability to think about football on the grass but only in narrow defined terms of a gpc game.

 

Football coaching master class right there. Maybe if Graeme Souness had read it we wouldn't have ended up with two midfielders running into each other and getting him the sack.

[Guest dover]

Have to admit I'm getting more fed up with Smith. His one role these days seems to be to sit in front of the back four and break things up, but recently, and Monday night in particular, there were several instances where WBA broke and the central midfield was nowhere to be seen. Get rid asap imo, or even now, drop him for Guthrie.

 

Nonsense, utter nonsense. Im not Smiths biggest fan and he was dire in the premiership for us, but in this division he has found his level. Without Smith in the side we get bullied across the midfield, its ugly and sole destroying but necessary to get back were we belong, swapping gutherie for smith would be suicide in this league.

[Tooj]

Have to admit I'm getting more fed up with Smith. His one role these days seems to be to sit in front of the back four and break things up, but recently, and Monday night in particular, there were several instances where WBA broke and the central midfield was nowhere to be seen. Get rid asap imo, or even now, drop him for Guthrie.

 

Finally somebody else apart from me, LLO and madras can see it.

[Dave]

[Frazzle]

Everyone thinks he's **** practically.  Everyone always says our CM is ****.

[Tooj]

 

According to the majority he's been one of our best players this year when in all honesty he had a couple of decent games to start with but is constantly a liability with his bookings, always gets overran in the middle of the park, barely touches the ball or shows for it.

[Dave]

 

According to the majority he's been one of our best players this year when in all honesty he had a couple of decent games to start with but is constantly a liability with his bookings, always gets overran in the middle of the park, barely touches the ball or shows for it.

 

I think most just believe him to be better than Butt (Hughton insists on playing at least one of them in every match), not that he's been particularly great. I've not seen a massive amount of praise for him on here.

 

He frequently gets a slagging in match threads for his stupid lunging in etc. Including this one.

[ElDiablo]

We know he's shit ffs. It's a case of making do and trying to get away with accommodating these cloggers in central midfield. Smith is probably the easiest one to accommodate as he knows his limitations unlike Butt (Iniesta in disguise) Nolan (reserving a bit of puff for later in games.) He also keeps it simple which is important in that position.

[The Prophet]

Smith gets credit because of his effort more than anything. Most know he has limited ability, hence being poor before our relegation, but the fact he puts himself about and looks like he gives a shit means people warm to him more than likes of Butt despite having minimal talent.

[Gallowgate Toon]

I think it's harsh to judge Smith in his current role when he's playing with Nolan.

[Tooj]

Smith gets credit because of his effort more than anything. Most know he has limited ability, hence being poor before our relegation, but the fact he puts himself about and looks like he gives a shit means people warm to him more than likes of Butt despite having minimal talent.

 

He doesn't put in that much effort though, certainly not more than Butt.

[The Prophet]

I think it's harsh to judge Smith in his current role when he's playing with Nolan.

 

Smith was woefully out of his depth in the Premier League. West Brom are the team we've played that look even moderately like a top flight outfit and he looked poor. Guthrie is our only central midfielder with an ounce of quality, that is going to have to change if we want even a shot at survival should we go up.

[Flip]

The thing i like about Smith is that he keeps it simple and knows how to pass it out wide and open the game up. Butt always tried his longballs that ended up no where.

 

I can just praise Smith for the things hes done this year even though he sometimes makes reckless and needless challenges. However if we had another strong player who can play the box-to-box type like Gravesen or Bouba Diop used to than I have no doubt he can play in the mddle in the premiership (if we make it there)

[Mowen]

I haven't looked through this thread since the game but does anyone know why Smith and Nolan weren't playing? Also, has Hughton indicated why he thought it might be alright to play a full 90 without any central midfielders?

[madras]

I haven't looked through this thread since the game but does anyone know why Smith and Nolan weren't playing? Also, has Hughton indicated why he thought it might be alright to play a full 90 without any central midfielders?

because he's been able to do it most of the season.

[Optimistic Nut]

That's pretty much it really, up until the last month we've got away with playing those two.