lovejoy Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 has he really spent £130m?? didnt realise he had spent that much. 2nd highest net spend over the time hes been there only man city beats him fuck me. puts it into perspective really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovejoy Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 what did bobby spend when he propelled us to 4th? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 what did bobby spend when he propelled us to 4th? not a whole lot compared to whats spent now but different times Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovejoy Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 sure he had spent about £35m. with a net of about £30m. agreed though, it was different then. £130m is a shit load of wedge however. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Great article - Gabriele Marcotti Tuesday offered a textbook case of how quickly rumours can spread. Peter Lansley's piece sums up neatly how unconfirmed reports of Martin O'Neill's resignation as Aston Villa manager romped around the web and the airwaves. Heck, I was part of it too ... retweeting Oli Kay's tweet (which, responsibly, reminded us that it was UNCONFIRMED) and then watching the mayhem unfold. I have to confess I don't understand the O'Neill phenomenon. Maybe it's my fault. I don't think he plays outstanding, innovative football. I do think he sets out his teams in a well-organised counter-attacking system and generally gets them to execute his game plan very well. But so do others. I don't think he's particularly shrewd or creative in the transfer market. By my reckoning, since arriving at Villa Park, his club have spent more money than any other team in the Premier League (£88 million in net terms) with the exception of Manchester City. And, after all that expense, Villa will probably finish somewhere between fifth and seventh which basically equates to the club punching its weight. Take a quick look at history. O'Neill finished 11th in his first season and sixth the last two years. The much maligned David O'Leary took Villa to sixth place in 2003-04. That was his first season at the club and he took over a side which had finished just three points above relegation the previous year. In the seven seasons between 1995 and 2002, Villa finished fourth, fifth, seventh, sixth, sixth, eighth and eighth, while winning the League Cup in 1996. The guys managing Villa in those years were Brian Little and John Gregory (with a bit of Graham Taylor thrown in). Neither Little nor Gregory (let alone O'Leary) are spoken of in the same glowing terms as O'Neill. And yet they achieved what they achieved without the massive investment from Randy Lerner, but with the rather more cautious Doug Ellis at the helm. I fail to see what in his results at Aston Villa suggests he's any different from his peers who achieved comparable results, like Harry Redknapp (with a comparable budget) or David Moyes (with a smaller budget and smaller wage bill). Further muddying the waters - and, again, it's probably just me - is the fact that I don't understand what his transfer strategy is. Since arriving at Villa he has only bought players from British clubs, with three exceptions: John Carew, reserve goalkeeper Brad Guzan and Moustapha Salifou (who is 26 and has yet to start a league game). It has been a pattern throughout his career. At Celtic, in five seasons he brought in three players from abroad: Bobo Balde and Joos Valgaeren who were pretty good and Michael Herbert, who never played a single league game for the club. Now, you obviously don't need to buy players from abroad to be a good manager. But the fact that he has bought just six in nearly nine seasons is a bit of a head-scratcher. Unless he's somehow prejudiced against them (and I don't think he is), it suggests his scouting network and decision-making maybe isn't what it should be. Instead, he's bought British players, mostly young ones, for which he's been widely praised. But again, it's not as if he's unearthed gems, signing some teenage left back from Colchester who then goes on to become the next Stuart Pearce or an underrated striker from Reading whose career he helps get back on track. Most of his British signings are fairly obvious ones - well-known players at market prices, whether it's Stewart Downing or Ashley Young or James Milner. There's no great nous or imagination there, it's basically a case of bringing in brand names. And paying accordingly for the privilege. He's supposed to be some kind of guru to young players, but, in fact, he's given league debuts to just four home-grown players in four seasons. One of them, Isaiah Osbourne, is now on loan at Middlesbrough. The other three - Ciaran Clark, Marc Albrighton and Nathan Delfouneso - have between them started a single league game this season and played less than 300 minutes between them. He's meant to be methodical and clear-thinking, but then he signed three quarters of his starting back four (Stephen Warnock, Richard Dunne and James Collins) in the last hours of the transfer window. Which actually doesn't suggest much of a plan at all. What you're left with is his results. Which, as stated above, are good but not exceptional. Three SPL titltes, three Scottish FA Cups and a League Cup in five years. But, of course, that was at Celtic. Gordon Strachan, his successor, also won three league titles, as well as a Scottish FA Cup and two League Cups, and he did it in four years. You don't see Strachan mentioned in the same breath as Sir Alex Ferguson and Brian Clough do you? And, yes, he did take Celtic to the Uefa Cup final. (But then Steve McClaren also took Middlesbrough to a Uefa Cup final). O'Neill strikes me, ultimately, as someone who does the job to the level you would expect, given the resources at his disposal. Nothing less, nothing more. When you have a net spend of £88 million over four years, a top six finish is the least you can expect. We'll never know, of course, but one would imagine that, say, David Moyes might have attained comparable heights if he'd had £88 million to spend, instead of the roughly £20 million net spend he's had to work with since O'Neill's arrival. Who knows? Maybe some of the folks further down the food chain would have as well. Heck, maybe even Brian Little and John Gregory. Would he have been more successful than, say Rafa Benitez at Liverpool or Wenger at Arsenal? Maybe, maybe not. But, while I can imagine an argument for why he would do worse, I have yet to hear a cogent argument for why he would definitely have done better. (I'm all ears, BTW. Though, of course, I accept that it's mere conjecture, we'll probably never know). One more thing. Lansley's article mentions suggestions that O'Neill is under pressure because Lerner, Villa's owner, is unwilling to make further large investments in the club. If that's the case, it's more than understandable. You spend big, you get the players you want and then you work on making them play well together as a team. O'Neill has succeeded in doing so with Young and Milner, now it's up to him to make it work with the others. But now comes the real test of whether he really is a special manager or just another "good" manager who succeeds when he's awash with money. Now we'll find out what he can do. Provided, of course, the unconfirmed rumours are wholly false and he does decide to stick around, even with a switched off tap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezertron Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 has he really spent £130m?? didnt realise he had spent that much. 2nd highest net spend over the time hes been there only man city beats him f*** me. puts it into perspective really. Too much fucking perspective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 They're spending beyond their means through the owner, so if O'Neill leaves over this he's got no balls. It's bullshit though. I always wondered how things would pan out if Lerner's spending didn't ultimatgely lead to CL football. While Villa are doing ok, they don't look like getting there just yet and it's a hell of a lot of money to sink in without being in the premier UEFA competition. Are they headed for a similar period we went through in Shepherd's time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 They're spending beyond their means through the owner, so if O'Neill leaves over this he's got no balls. It's bullshit though. I always wondered how things would pan out if Lerner's spending didn't ultimatgely lead to CL football. While Villa are doing ok, they don't look like getting there just yet and it's a hell of a lot of money to sink in without being in the premier UEFA competition. Are they headed for a similar period we went through in Shepherd's time? the question to ask is the money he put in like abramovichs cash turned into equitity or into a loan to the club Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 He's done an admirable job at Villa but I see a manager who tightens up too much for big games. As the season grinds on he starts to manage nervously and his team takes it's cue from him and they play nervously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 They're spending beyond their means through the owner, so if O'Neill leaves over this he's got no balls. It's bullshit though. I always wondered how things would pan out if Lerner's spending didn't ultimatgely lead to CL football. While Villa are doing ok, they don't look like getting there just yet and it's a hell of a lot of money to sink in without being in the premier UEFA competition. Are they headed for a similar period we went through in Shepherd's time? the question to ask is the money he put in like abramovichs cash turned into equitity or into a loan to the club Lerner spent about £65 million buying the club and since then has stuck about £180 million in. And that has been roughly 50% equity and 50% loan - he's been paid interest on his loan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 good article from Marcotti. O'neill is one dimensional, if i were lerner, i'd look to replace him. it would be a risk, because O'Neill guarantees you a competitive side that will finish in and amongst the european spots, and it could all go horribly wrong with a new man in charge. but if lerner is prepared to spend and try and get into the top four he will need another manager as im pretty sure it wont happen with O'Neill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stephen927 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 O'Neill is pretty narrow-minded with his transfers too, isn't he? Doesn't seem to sign anybody beyond the obvious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 They're spending beyond their means through the owner, so if O'Neill leaves over this he's got no balls. It's bullshit though. I always wondered how things would pan out if Lerner's spending didn't ultimatgely lead to CL football. While Villa are doing ok, they don't look like getting there just yet and it's a hell of a lot of money to sink in without being in the premier UEFA competition. Are they headed for a similar period we went through in Shepherd's time? the question to ask is the money he put in like abramovichs cash turned into equitity or into a loan to the club Lerner spent about £65 million buying the club and since then has stuck about £180 million in. And that has been roughly 50% equity and 50% loan - he's been paid interest on his loan. so not even an interest free gift loan curious Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kingdawson Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 good article from Marcotti. O'neill is one dimensional, if i were lerner, i'd look to replace him. it would be a risk, because O'Neill guarantees you a competitive side that will finish in and amongst the european spots, and it could all go horribly wrong with a new man in charge. but if lerner is prepared to spend and try and get into the top four he will need another manager as im pretty sure it wont happen with O'Neill. I agree with this. I'm (or i was) a big fan of O'Neil but some of his decisions this season have been baffling. I still maintain that he's a good manager that did excellent jobs at Leicester and Celtic but his failed terribly when it comes to transfers at Villa imo. Maybe he's the sort of manager that works better on a smaller budget? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocho Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Good article that - especially when you compare what he's spent compared to what Moyes has got at his disposal. Found this googling http://www.astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=750042 FIRST SEASON 2006/2007 In Stiliyan Petrov Celtic £6.5m Didier Agathe Celtic Free Chris Sutton Celtic Free Phil Bardsley Manchester United Loan Gabor Kiraly Crystal Palace Loan John Carew Lyon Swap Ashley Young Watford £9.65m Shaun Maloney Celtic £1.1m SECOND SEASON 2007/2008 In Wayne Routledge Tottenham £1.5m Moustapha Salifou FC Wil Undisc. Curtis Davies West Brom Loan Zat Knight Fulham £3.5m Scott Carson Liverpool Loan Harry Forrester Watford £250 000 initial fee rising on appearances Eric Lichaj Unattached Free Marlon Harewood West Ham Undisc (region of £3.5m?) Nigel Reo-Coker West Ham £8.5m THIRD SEASON 2008/2009 In: Curtis Davies (WBA undisclosed but around £7.5million?) Steve Sidwell (Chelsea £5.5million) Brad Friedel (Blackburn, undisclosed but in the region of £2 - £2.5million) Brad Guzan (Chivas US, undisclosed, starts at around £800k up to £2m on appearances etc?) Nicky Shorey (Reading, around £4m?) Luke Young (Middlesbrough, around £5m?) Carlos Cuellar (Rangers £7.8million) James Milner (Newcastle, around £12million?) Arsenio Halfhuid from Excelsior (undisclosed) Emile Heskey from Wigan Athletic (£3.5m) Not sure if that 130million is correct (mental arithmetic says it's no, but i could be wrong) but nevertheless, some of those signings ie Sidwell, Reo-Coker, Heskey have been awful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 not a big fan or marcotti, but i'd agree with him on this, o'neill seems to be very one dimensional Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Probably even more significant than the transfer fees paid out is that a lot of them would have been put on long and very expensive contracts. Agree pretty much with what most people say about him. He's an ok manager - possibly a lucky one - but nowt special. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Spaceman Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 12 million for Milner cracks me up every time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Probably even more significant than the transfer fees paid out is that a lot of them would have been put on long and very expensive contracts. Villa's the blueprint we're working to according to Derek. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 sure he had spent about £35m. with a net of about £30m. agreed though, it was different then. £130m is a shit load of wedge however. he spent 15.5m (bellamy 6, robert 9.5) in the summer and a further 5 on jenas in january. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sittingontheball Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Aside from the "played under Clough" angle, I think his good reputation is partly due to the Premier era middle-class interest in football and increased media coverage. You see the same with Southgate, Hughes, Zola, etc. If a manager comes across as a nice man, or especially an eloquent one, people cut them more slack than they deserve. Ultimately its a results-driven job. You've got to deliver. The other one is the O'Neill is lucky to be managing in an era when Chelsea, ManYoo, Arsenal and Liverpool are treated as having a divine right to the top four places. The press may not have big upped Gregory or anyone else as much in the past because fifth wasn't seen as some amazing achievement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 The difficulty for those clubs under the top four is that the best players will still prefer to go to the Champions League clubs. So the chasing clubs really have to pay over the odds in transfer fees and wages to compensate. Man City are the only ones who are really doing that. Villa have spent a lot in total, but unlike City they've been restricted to players who the top four don't particularly want. And in the case of Gareth Barry, Villa actually lost a good player due to City's money. In any case, come on guys, O'Neill isn't exactly failing. In a long managerial career, he's never failed at any club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Norwich? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 The difficulty for those clubs under the top four is that the best players will still prefer to go to the Champions League clubs. So the chasing clubs really have to pay over the odds in transfer fees and wages to compensate. Man City are the only ones who are really doing that. Villa have spent a lot in total, but unlike City they've been restricted to players who the top four don't particularly want. And in the case of Gareth Barry, Villa actually lost a good player due to City's money. In any case, come on guys, O'Neill isn't exactly failing. In a long managerial career, he's never failed at any club. but what about his inability to buy from abroad? surley you'd look abroad if you were being priced out ofthe market over here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1878 Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Extremely strange press conference from him today. Never definitively said he would be there next season when asked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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