Stifler Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I don't think they have one forward in their squad I would choose over any of our so that says a lot. Bendtner is perhaps and exception to that rule but their midfield doesn't really have much creativity to provide what forwards they do have with something decent. All they have in midfield is a guy who can hack people time and time again and a Moroccan on the wing who is like Jonas, he can run and run but when it comes to the final ball it just isn't there. Jack Colback is a good box to box midfielder but he's still young and still learning a bit and needs players around him to help him at the moment. He often ends up being the guy helping everyone else out and can often find himself running down the wings and out of position. Don't get me started on their defence, I mean when Bramble and Brown are your first choice CB's then your going to have problems, especially when one is injury prone, the other is injury prone and currently out of the squad on suspension for a 3rd time facing sexual harassment charges. MON will need money to turn around Sunderland, at this moment in time they are an average premiership side at the best and they don't seem to have much money to spend in order for MON to turn things around. I agree with most of that but the very last point is pure speculation. Who's to say Short won't give him loads to spend? The fact that Quinn was on the radio less than a year ago saying the club wasn't bringing enough money in and that Ellis was bankrolling them and that the gate receipts were nowhere near where they should be etc and that their was no sign of an improvement on matters and that he feared Ellis would get fed up of bankrolling the club and just leave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 MON will need lots of money to take that job, otherwise how would he do his "buy entire defence, buy new entire defence the next season" routine. 2008-9: Friedel (2.5m), Luke Young (5m), Curtis Davies (9.5m), Carlos Cuellar (7m), Nicky Shorey (4m) then the very next season: 2009-10: Stephen Warnock (7m), James Collins (5m), Richard Dunne (5m), Habib Beye (2.5m) Or, looked at another way, 25m on centre halves in two years (to which you could add Zat Knight the year previous if you wanted to make it almost 30m) Curtis Davies (9.5m) last seen playing for Birmingham City after he went there for 3.5m. I'm not saying all was bad with MON, far from it, sixth three years in a row was decent if not stellar for the money he spent, but he's the definition of a short term manager - spends shit loads of money without looking at the broader management of the club, without "managing" in the real sense. Some of those players, like Shorey, for example, he bought then decided he didn't fancy, so dumped them in the reserves. He gets results by motivating the players (but only the ones he likes, the others might as well be dead). The problem is he spends massively in a scattergun approach (enough will turn out ok if you buy that many) without thinking about things like wage bills. And that is why we're fucked wage bill-wise right now. He also has almost zero involvement in training (with us, he'd turn up on Tuesday and Thursday), and leaves his two assistants in charge - Robertson, who apparently just stood at the touchline smoking and shouting at people, and Steve Walford, who used to put the cones out. In fact, the players were so disparaging of his training methods that they referred to Robertson and Walford as "Bibs and Cones". He also doesn't do tactics. There's one way of playing. That's fine, if it works, but when it doesn't work ..... he just carries on doing it. So with us it was counter attacking with pace. That's fine away from home where teams have a go at you, but at home where teams are more reticent, it doesn't fucking work. That's why our away record under him was frequently stellar, but our home record - points taken and goals scored - was dreadful. One more gripe - he never changes things with substitutions prior to 75 mins. It doesn't matter what is happening in the game, he won't change things unless he has to. It became a running joke with us to see Steve Sidwell come on with fifteen minutes left. Like I said, he's effective in many ways, but determinedly old school. The main reason we never moved on from sixth is because to do that, we'd have needed to be more tactically astute and use the transfer market better, which is what the very highest level managers tend to do. He never managed it, and i doubt he's going to change any time soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 O'Neill would want to spend money - he left Villa as Lerner was tightening the purse strings. Bruce is another who has spend a lot without seeing any noticeable improvements, so I doubt Ellis will be in the mood to let another manager spend £70m+ over a few seasons. Whoever arrives at Sunderland will have to work with a reduced budget. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 it'll save them having to bring in a left back. o'neill loves playing centre halves right across the back line. looking forward to brummies input if they do appoint o'neill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I don't think they have one forward in their squad I would choose over any of our so that says a lot. Bendtner is perhaps and exception to that rule but their midfield doesn't really have much creativity to provide what forwards they do have with something decent. All they have in midfield is a guy who can hack people time and time again and a Moroccan on the wing who is like Jonas, he can run and run but when it comes to the final ball it just isn't there. Jack Colback is a good box to box midfielder but he's still young and still learning a bit and needs players around him to help him at the moment. He often ends up being the guy helping everyone else out and can often find himself running down the wings and out of position. Don't get me started on their defence, I mean when Bramble and Brown are your first choice CB's then your going to have problems, especially when one is injury prone, the other is injury prone and currently out of the squad on suspension for a 3rd time facing sexual harassment charges. MON will need money to turn around Sunderland, at this moment in time they are an average premiership side at the best and they don't seem to have much money to spend in order for MON to turn things around. I agree with most of that but the very last point is pure speculation. Who's to say Short won't give him loads to spend? The fact that Quinn was on the radio less than a year ago saying the club wasn't bringing enough money in and that Ellis was bankrolling them and that the gate receipts were nowhere near where they should be etc and that their was no sign of an improvement on matters and that he feared Ellis would get fed up of bankrolling the club and just leave. Fair enough, just saying it's not beyond the realms of possibility that he's decided to put a big wedge into the club now under an inspirational manager and see how far they can get before FFP comes in. He'd be a lunatic like, but it's not impossible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Buy buy, Martin: How O'Neill spent £120million in four years at Aston Villa Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1301712/Buy-buy-Martin-How-ONeill-spent-120million-years-Aston-Villa.html#ixzz1fHrsMIbf Title is massively misleading, like. is net loss of 82mill without really improving the club misleading ? Monumentally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Which is why I'd be quite happy for the spackems to hire him. EDIT: This was a reply to brummie's post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 it'll save them having to bring in a left back. o'neill loves playing centre halves right across the back line. looking forward to brummies input if they do appoint o'neill. I've expounded a few post above. I don't really care if he goes there or not, but what I am not looking forward to is the return of the press fawning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 How much did all that spending increase the wage bill? He had big earners sitting doing nowt(Beye, NRC, Shorey, Davies etc) so you could argue its an even higher net spend tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?threadid=649489 Uh... What? In English? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Urgh Wheeze Keyzzz is on TS now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 How much did all that spending increase the wage bill? He had big earners sitting doing nowt(Beye, NRC, Shorey, Davies etc) so you could argue its an even higher net spend tbh Two years ago, our wage bill was considerably higher than Tottenham's. We were paying Steve Sidwell 50k a week. They were paying Modric half that at the same time. Too many of our players sat around picking up 40k a week and offering nothing. Which manager, for example, would sanction giving a nearly-32 year old Emile Heskey 65k a week for three years? Or Beye, at 32, a three year 40k a week deal? That's what we are cutting back on now, not so much transfer spend, but wage bill, because it got so massively out of reality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Villa were a force under O'Neil, you cannot argue with that. 2006: Aston Villa 16th (No O'Neil) 2007: Aston Villa 11th (With O'Neil - Net Spend £15m) 2008: Aston Villa 6th (With O'Neil - Net Spend £5m) 2009: Aston Villa 6th (With O'Neil - Net Spend £47m) 2010: Aston Villa 6th (With O'Neil - Net Spend £15m) He had 1 utterly daft spending spree in the 2008-2009 season, but before that he spent a total of £20m to turn Villa from relegation threatened to Champions League contenders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
binnsy Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 We need a sweepstake for how long it will take the new SAFC manager to mention NUFC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 What was David Moyes net spend while finishing ahead of him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I just don't think O'Neill is a good manager. At all. The only bad thing about him getting the job will be the media wankfest we'll have to put up with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 We need a sweepstake for how long it will take the new SAFC manager to mention NUFC. 15 mins into the press conference, when a journo asks about the derby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 How much did all that spending increase the wage bill? He had big earners sitting doing nowt(Beye, NRC, Shorey, Davies etc) so you could argue its an even higher net spend tbh Two years ago, our wage bill was considerably higher than Tottenham's. We were paying Steve Sidwell 50k a week. They were paying Modric half that at the same time. Too many of our players sat around picking up 40k a week and offering nothing. Which manager, for example, would sanction giving a nearly-32 year old Emile Heskey 65k a week for three years? Or Beye, at 32, a three year 40k a week deal? That's what we are cutting back on now, not so much transfer spend, but wage bill, because it got so massively out of reality. Frightening when you put it like that, forgot about Sidwell and how much Heskey is on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 He's also clinically incapable of signing a good striker. Harewood FFS. Carew was decent for a while, but he only came because Houllier (at Lyon) offered him as bait for Baros. Oh, that's another thing. With us, signed about 40 players. How many were playing outside the UK? Two. A rookie keeper and Carew Doesn't do scouting, only shops in the most expensive market of all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Phil Bardsley must be shitting himself if MON is incoming - he only plays centre-mids and right-wingers at right-back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 What was David Moyes net spend while finishing ahead of him? 50p bill kenwright once found lying on the street Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Phil Bardsley must be shitting himself if MON is incoming - he only plays centre-mids and right-wingers at right-back. Not only that, but we had Bardsley on loan under MON, and he sent him back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 He's also clinically incapable of signing a good striker. Harewood FFS. Carew was decent for a while, but he only came because Houllier (at Lyon) offered him as bait for Baros. Oh, that's another thing. With us, signed about 40 players. How many were playing outside the UK? Two. A rookie keeper and Carew Doesn't do scouting, only shops in the most expensive market of all. Sounds like he'd be the perfect man to follow Bruce. I hope they go for someone senior like him or Hughes, who will cost a fortune, only be there for the money and probably do as bad a job as Bruce did. I'd be more concerned if they went for someone on the up like Adkins or Solskjaer. Either way whoever comes in has a huge infrastructure job to do. The way Quinn backed Bruce means his staff and ways are very deeply rooted there and some of the highly paid dross he bought will be going nowhere quick. It's going to be an interesting few months for them between now and May and if they get it wrong again the consequences could be disastrous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Sunderland have absolutely rubbish players for the most part. They need someone who knows what they are doing in the transfer market, and who can be savy. O'Neil would be a disaster. Hope they get him! Hughes on the other hand I coukld see doing alright there in comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 The issue of the large squad of bad players he assembled has got to be a big worry. Presumably they are on decent contracts and the new manager won't be able to move them on easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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