Messi

[Guest Treks]

Something like 53 appearances and 42 goals. Safe to say Messi will score more than 42 goals this season. He's chasing a club record set by Ronaldo. Under Sir Bobby Ronaldo scored 47 goals in 49 games. Sum ratio eh

[Fugazi]

Would be great if Messi ended the season with a goal-to-game ratio of 1:1

 

Deportivo at home on Wednesday, live on Sky. 

[Guest Treks]

indeed. will catch the first half of the north london derby then switch over to Barca. Depor are shit now, They will just sit back and look to frustrate. PLaying for the draw.

[Fugazi]

OptaJose 11 - Lionel Messi is 11 goals short of the all-time record in a Liga season (38, managed by Hugo Sánchez and Telmo Zarra). Aim

 

[Village Idiot]

He won't get Hugo Sánchez's and Zarra's record (38 in league), I wish... I think Ronaldo's 34 is also a bit out of the question unless he mantains 1 in 1, which isn't as easy as people think. Now, the overall 47 goals in a season I think is achieveable since he's at 40 and has at least 9 games to play, 10 if we make the CL final. Still difficult, but the first player that has a shot at it.

[Tooj]

Read this in yesterday's Sunday Times. Canny article.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/hugh_mcilvanney/article7094342.ece

 

How Lionel Messi plays is a heartwarming reminder of why football is the most popular team sport humans have yet devised. It would be a strange spirit that wasn’t lifted by the sight of him in action, the spectacle of a repertoire of wonders delivered in the biggest arenas of the game with the joyful exuberance of a boy having fun among his friends in the schoolyard.

 

Often when the cameras focus on the face framed by his unkempt hair as he completes the latest surge of productive virtuosity, he looks younger than the 22 we know he is and he seems suffused with a happy sense of awe at what his supernatural affinity with the ball has enabled him to do. His features don’t clench in the expression of I-told-you-so triumphalism affected by many players as they veer at sprinter’s speed away from the scoring of a goal, frequently stripping to the waist so the shirt can be waved like a banner. Messi’s main reaction to the damage he does is to smile, and we smile with him.

 

Supporters of opposing clubs who suffer from the inspired feats of destruction he perpetrates with outrageous consistency on behalf of Barcelona, as Arsenal loyalists did last Tuesday night when he struck all of the four goals that crushed their Champions League hopes in Catalonia, find themselves feeling it is almost a privilege to fall to such a talent. There is a natural willingness to acclaim him as a living refutation of so many of the depressing values, ranging from the merely tiresome to the downright corrosive, that are prevalent in modern football. Most strikingly, he assiduously eschews the pursuit of celebrity that so absorbs droves of his fellow professionals.

 

Unadorned by visible tattoos or earrings or fancy clothes, content to drive an unspectacular car provided by his employers, he is excruciatingly shy and uncomfortable with expressing himself when outside the milieu in which he is the unrivalled genius of his era. In the words of the Spain-based writer John Carlin, Messi “concentrates every atom of his being on the pitch; off it he is a shadow”. Of course, that degree of dedication is largely a matter of personality rather than a declaration of moral superiority over less single-minded practitioners of his trade. Certainly it is as silly and unfair to object to the fondness among today’s players for accumulating extrovert symbols of their success as it is to rail judgmentally against the wages they are paid. Emancipation was too long delayed in an entertainment industry that for generations treated the creators of its wealth as little better than serfs and if the financial pendulum has swung excessively, preservation of the dire iniquities of the past would have been infinitely more regrettable. As for footballers’ materialistic flourishing of their wealth, flashily splashing the cash is perhaps to be expected from young men who, contrary to the omens of their background, have hit the mother lode.

 

And yet there is something reassuring and endearing about Messi’s spontaneous resistance to the Hello! lifestyle, his instinctive opting for the outstanding sportsman’s traditional role of folk hero and not the cheaper identity of celebrity. Even now David Beckham, with a fraction of his ability, has far more global fame but the Argentinian’s renown will, if posterity has any taste for justice, reverberate into the future as an echo of undeniable greatness. It is clearly premature to instal him in the upper reaches of football’s pantheon — the place reserved, to my way of thinking, for Pele, Diego Maradona, Alfredo Di Stefano and Johan Cruyff, with Ferenc Puskas, George Best, Garrincha, Zinedine Zidane, Franz Beckenbauer, John Charles, Stanley Matthews and (an unashamed personal prejudice) Tom Finney perhaps jostling in a throng for a foothold — but what Messi has already done in his fledgling career makes assessing him alongside the supreme exponents of attacking skills in the history of football an entirely legitimate exercise.

 

Perhaps the obsessive commitment that has nurtured prodigious intrinsic gifts into the all but irresistible armoury he takes on to the field these days owes a lot to the physical disadvantages endured throughout his early years in Rosario, an unprepossessing industrial city 200 miles north-west of Buenos Aires. He was tiny as a child and it was the need for hormone treatment to encourage growth (and the readiness of Barcelona, unlike clubs in his homeland, to undertake the expense of medical care involving daily injections over three years) that ensured his arrival at Camp Nou in 2001 as a 13-year-old. Such experiences presumably fostered an awareness that he and everybody close to him had the kind of investment in his potential that must not be betrayed by inadequate effort.

 

Barcelona realised almost instantly they had a priceless asset and, as Messi progressed from a competitive debut at 17 along a rising graph of impact through succeeding seasons, the evidence for regarding him as the best player in the world became overwhelming some time before those countering with a case for the brilliance of Kaka and Cristiano Ronaldo conceded his superiority. The majority of neutrals’ preference for Messi is obviously further nourished by the pleasure derived from seeing a little man who doesn’t look much like an athlete, a rather hunch-shouldered figure who would never be noticeable in a crowd, wreaking havoc on strapping defenders.

 

At barely 5ft 7ins and nearer 10.5 than 11st, he reminds us that another beauty of football is its granting of sporting magnificence to seemingly ordinary Joes. Recognition of the current Barcelona team as Europe’s best drives home that truth, since the two players who would be considered their most distinguished after Messi, the midfield masters Xavi Hernandez and Andres Iniesta, are also unimpressive in their physical appearance, if never in the inexhaustible energy of their movement. All three men, and the club style they incarnate so thrillingly, represent a healthy rebuttal of the torrents of foolish talk about how increased athleticism and pace have so transformed football that the skills associated with the greatest players of distant decades cannot be invoked for purposes of comparison.

 

The essential qualities that justify Barca’s status as short-odds favourites to defend their Champions League title, and claim the trophy for the third time in five years, have been benchmarks since Di Stefano was leading Real Madrid to victory in the first five stagings of the continental championship between 1956 and 1960 (scoring in every final). And my memories of the splendours of that run are enough in themselves to oblige me to scorn glib suggestions that Spain’s present standard-bearers are the best club team the game has produced. A more recent objection comes from recalling how Chelsea reduced Barcelona to impotence in a 2009 Champions League semi-final, only to be thwarted by dreadful refereeing, and from back in history there must be summoned the Milan that bridged the late 1980s and early 1990s (with Gullit, Van Basten, Rijkaard, Baresi and Maldini) and the Santos of Pele’s precocious prime.

 

There is much less cause for dismissing the argument that Messi is seriously threatening to join the ultimate elite of Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano and Cruyff but he has some way to go. His talents are, however, sufficiently dazzling to carry him there if he is blessed with prolonged freedom from injury. As a dribbler at speed he ranks with anybody I’ve seen, even Pele and Maradona, manipulating the ball with mesmerising adroitness and contriving brutally abrupt changes of direction at the peak of electric bursts of penetration. His identifying of killer positions is eerily prescient and, though he heavily favours his left foot, his finishing with either boot is deadly, whether subtlety or violence is required. He scored 38 goals for Barcelona last season and will surely pass the 40 mark in this campaign.

 

His courage is bottomless and his size does not prevent him from riding the fiercest challenges with remarkable demonstrations of strength and a resilience born of his extraordinary balance. Accusations of selfishness are fading before proof he is applying Pele’s golden rule of playing the simple ball when that is what’s advisable and performing miracles only when they are needed. Effortless control enables him to keep his head up and his alertness to everything around him results in passes that can split defences as cruelly as his dribbling. He is, in short, an unmitigated marvel and we’re lucky to be watching him.

 

But those glorious ghosts have yet to be overtaken. Pele, with a volume of accomplishments too expansive to be detailed, remains my idea of the greatest footballer I ever saw. A whisker behind is Maradona, who made by far the biggest individual contribution to the securing of a World Cup triumph anybody ever witnessed with Argentina in the Mexico finals of 1986 and subsequently raised Napoli to trophy-winning heights the club never approached before or afterwards. Di Stefano guaranteed himself the sport’s version of immortality with Real Madrid and, though Cruyff collected fewer prizes than the unforgettable richness of his technique and his cerebral deploying of it merited, he will always be a giant to me.

 

It is intriguing to speculate how much Maradona’s volatile, sometimes baffling management of Argentina will affect Lionel Messi’s chances of arriving alongside him in the pantheon during this World Cup summer. But if there is disappointment in South Africa it is more likely to be the old king’s fault than that of the heir to the throne.

[DJ_NUFC]

The picture to the right had me thinking he'd taken up Rugby

[tmonkey]

Bump.

 

Shut out by a strong team and completely nullified - similar to the first leg against Arsenal. And unlike the 2nd leg against Arsenal, he won't be up against a team without key players.

 

I know he's great 'n all and the best in the world right now, but he does seem to lack the all-round game that Zidane, Maradona, etc, had. If he can't dribble at a defence at will and therefore tear them apart, if he's being marked tightly and closed down fast by good calibre defenders, he's not going to do much else. I'm going to jump the gun and say that we'll see a repeat of this in the second leg, and in the latter stages of the World Cup too when Argentina inveitably get knocked out by someone organised at the back. Although given how devestating he can be it won't be a total suprise if he does the opposite.

[Ameritoon]

Absolute shit.

[johnnypd]

Bump.

 

Shut out by a strong team and completely nullified - similar to the first leg against Arsenal. And unlike the 2nd leg against Arsenal, he won't be up against a team without key players.

 

I know he's great 'n all and the best in the world right now, but he does seem to lack the all-round game that Zidane, Maradona, etc, had. If he can't dribble at a defence at will and therefore tear them apart, if he's being marked tightly and closed down fast by good calibre defenders, he's not going to do much else. I'm going to jump the gun and say that we'll see a repeat of this in the second leg, and in the latter stages of the World Cup too when Argentina inveitably get knocked out by someone organised at the back. Although given how devestating he can be it won't be a total suprise if he does the opposite.

 

agreed. HTT said something along these lines a while back - the test for Messi is whether he turns into more of a playmaker as his career progresses. In terms of being a pure attacker, he's about as good as there's ever been, imo. Conversely, Zidane was an unbelievable playmaker but not much as an attacking force on his own. Maradona was a bit of Messi and Zidane combined. Ronaldinho was also very good as an individual attacker (not quite as good or as consistent as Messi though), great pace and power and an ability to dribble or to hit an amazing cross or shot from nowhere. But when he tried to become more of a playmaker he was dogturd, ended up doing pointless shite tricks in the middle of nowhere and spraying terrible long passes into touch.

[ponsaelius]

Played poorly away to Stuttgart and Arsenal aswell, we know how the return legs ended up.

[madras]

Bump.

 

Shut out by a strong team and completely nullified - similar to the first leg against Arsenal. And unlike the 2nd leg against Arsenal, he won't be up against a team without key players.

 

I know he's great 'n all and the best in the world right now, but he does seem to lack the all-round game that Zidane, Maradona, etc, had. If he can't dribble at a defence at will and therefore tear them apart, if he's being marked tightly and closed down fast by good calibre defenders, he's not going to do much else. I'm going to jump the gun and say that we'll see a repeat of this in the second leg, and in the latter stages of the World Cup too when Argentina inveitably get knocked out by someone organised at the back. Although given how devestating he can be it won't be a total suprise if he does the opposite.

thats a bit simplistic really just because he had a very quiet game. tell you what, even at his pomp i saw zidane have games as quiet as that and ronaldinho and maradona, guillit,van basten and zico for that matter.

[ponsaelius]

Sneijder> Messi today.

 

Sneijder has been absolutely class all season. People talk about the Eto'o/Ibra swap all the time when really the thing that made the difference for Inter was they were given the funds to go out and get Sneijder, who has made the difference.

[Village Idiot]

Sneijder's been absolute class, still can't believe Real let him go. Even more so than Robben (they were still expecting to get Ribery when they sold him, at least).

 

Regarding Messi, he has trouble with deep defences like Inter's. Also Inter cut the supply very well by nullifying Xavi.

 

The greatness of having a fit Iniesta is that keeping Xavi quiet is hardly genius thinking and a lot of teams have tried it, but that usually means leaving Iniesta off the leash, who can be really effective in a playmaker role himself. Keita didn't really bring much to the table today, sadly. That's why having Iniesta off for the remainder of the season is a big blow to us (Pep rushed him to play the CL final last year for this very reason).

[Thespence]

You can see why the pint size wizard skipped playing footie in Argentina as we have saw many times before when he has played for La Albiceleste he has not been as good when up against a load of South Americans.  South Americans defenders & DMs are brought up playing against the "gifted 10s" not many European grown defenders are.

[Guest Heneage]

You can see why the pint size wizard skipped playing footie in Argentina as we have saw many times before when he has played for La Albiceleste he has not been as good when up against a load of South Americans.  South Americans defenders & DMs are brought up playing against the "gifted 10s" not many European grown defenders are.

How do you mean? Get back and get compact?

[ponsaelius]

Sneijder's been absolute class, still can't believe Real let him go. Even more so than Robben (they were still expecting to get Ribery when they sold him, at least).

 

Regarding Messi, he has trouble with deep defences like Inter's. Also Inter cut the supply very well by nullifying Xavi.

 

The greatness of having a fit Iniesta is that keeping Xavi quiet is hardly genius thinking and a lot of teams have tried it, but that usually means leaving Iniesta off the leash, who can be really effective in a playmaker role himself. Keita didn't really bring much to the table today, sadly. That's why having Iniesta off for the remainder of the season is a big blow to us (Pep rushed him to play the CL final last year for this very reason).

 

Was going to ask you about Keita actually. He was very good towards the start of the season when he was scoring goals and imputting - his energy and work rate are good attributes however he seems to have got progressively worse over the course of the season. His ball retention is poor and he has no creative edge. That game today made his inefficiencies stand out I thought.

[Village Idiot]

Sneijder's been absolute class, still can't believe Real let him go. Even more so than Robben (they were still expecting to get Ribery when they sold him, at least).

 

Regarding Messi, he has trouble with deep defences like Inter's. Also Inter cut the supply very well by nullifying Xavi.

 

The greatness of having a fit Iniesta is that keeping Xavi quiet is hardly genius thinking and a lot of teams have tried it, but that usually means leaving Iniesta off the leash, who can be really effective in a playmaker role himself. Keita didn't really bring much to the table today, sadly. That's why having Iniesta off for the remainder of the season is a big blow to us (Pep rushed him to play the CL final last year for this very reason).

 

Was going to ask you about Keita actually. He was very good towards the start of the season when he was scoring goals and imputting - his energy and work rate are good attributes however he seems to have got progressively worse over the course of the season. His ball retention is poor and he has no creative edge. That game today made his inefficiencies stand out I thought.

 

He's not been the same since his injury in the CWC, he's got a couple more nagging injuries since then and he doesn't seem to be able to get himself started.

[Thespence]

You can see why the pint size wizard skipped playing footie in Argentina as we have saw many times before when he has played for La Albiceleste he has not been as good when up against a load of South Americans.  South Americans defenders & DMs are brought up playing against the "gifted 10s" not many European grown defenders are.

How do you mean? Get back and get compact?

 

It is more to do with the individual they are used to & have grown up playing against "10's" in South America as every game they play it is more than likely the oppo has one, skill levels range from Marinelli, Ortega, Buonanotte,Riquelme,Aimar, D'Alessandro though. Likewise Brazilians defensive players grow playing against them as well. Messi has not grew playing against South American defenders of course he has come against many but that inter team was packed with tonight which was not a surprise.  I have watched  Messi many times playing for Argentina in Copa & WC qualifies games & he has never reached the level only he can.

[Fugazi]

He hardly "skipped" playing in S. America, was more the fact none of them could afford to pay his medical fees when he was a kid.

[Thespence]

He hardly "skipped" playing in S. America, was more the fact none of them could afford to pay his medical fees when he was a kid.

 

His skipping of Argie football has resulted in him having constantly justifying his love for Argentina. What job did Jorge Messi get with Barca? I bet he got v.good T & C's There is no denying Barca gave him drugs & treatment.

[Village Idiot]

He hardly "skipped" playing in S. America, was more the fact none of them could afford to pay his medical fees when he was a kid.

 

His skipping of Argie football has resulted in him having constantly justifying his love for Argentina. What job did Jorge Messi get with Barca? I bet he got v.good T & C's There is no denying Barca gave him drugs & treatment.

 

Messi has family in Spain, and his father wanted to move there to escape the Argentine financial crisis. They have never forgiven him that he abandoned the motherland. Argentines are mental.

[Fugazi]

He hardly "skipped" playing in S. America, was more the fact none of them could afford to pay his medical fees when he was a kid.

 

His skipping of Argie football has resulted in him having constantly justifying his love for Argentina. What job did Jorge Messi get with Barca? I bet he got v.good T & C's There is no denying Barca gave him drugs & treatment.

 

Eh? I know Barca were the only ones who were willing to pay for his treatment, he didn't really have much of a choice.

[Taylor Swift]

Inter defended him and generally, Barca, very well. They not only nullified Messi but only Xavi, Ibrahimovic and Alves too.

 

I also thought the pitch was horrible which was there were so many misplaced passes and a lack of control from both teams, but I'm not sure that it wasn't done on purpose to disrupt's Barca's style.

[Rich]

Mourinho > Messi