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4-2-3-1: Should we give it a go?


The Prophet

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Guest BooBoo

Can no-one remember Colo playing DM at Man City last PL season and being really really turd?

 

Yep.

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Can no-one remember Colo playing DM at Man City last PL season and being really really turd?

Were the whole side not shite though? Genuine question, can't really remember.

This is why formations are utterly pointless if the personnel isnt right  :lol:

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I like the idea. If it played correctly, 4231 is a very solid formation that we've seen time and time again very difficult to break down. However, have we got the players to implement it? Have we got enough organization and command to stay solid? Have we got the discipline in midfield? Have we got the ability to stay solid yet still create chances? Doubtful.

 

We'd need 2 new Defensive midfielders for a start. Barton isnt a holding midfielder and niether as Guthrie. Smith is, well nobody actually knows what Smith is but e sure as hell isnt good enough.

 

Personally I think Hughton will go with the same as last season. A defensive 'whack it up to Carroll' 4-4-1-1 away and a little bit more attacking 4-4-2 at home.

 

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Guest Heneage

It's just what we played away from home. Barnsley away showed how it can potentially work if we actually defend properly.

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Get a competent player to play the role in the hole, and an actual defensive midfielder and I'd agree.

 

However relying on Smith to cover the defence/maintain possession and Nolan to be the creative fulcrum of the side is never going to work - it will infact just help to show up their glaring inadequacies by giving them the greatest responsibility in the side.

 

Germany's best players this competition? Ozil and Schweinsteiger, says alot about the importance of them positions to this system.

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Playing 4-2-3-1 requires the 2-3 to be able to be a fluid and cohesive unit - defending when we don't have the ball and supporting the striker when attacking. Our shower of shite wouldn't be able to understand let alone play the system. They're just not up to it.

 

We'd start banging long balls to Carroll who would lose it and the 4-2-3-1 would become a 4-5----1 and we'd get a hiding. It's a great idea in princple but our midfielders can't make it work effectively imo. :(

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Guest Heneage

Playing 4-2-3-1 requires the 2-3 to be able to be a fluid and cohesive unit - defending when we don't have the ball and supporting the striker when attacking. Our shower of s**** wouldn't be able to understand let alone play the system. They're just not up to it.

 

We'd start banging long balls to Carroll who would lose it and the 4-2-3-1 would become a 4-5----1 and we'd get a hiding. It's a great idea in princple but our midfielders can't make it work effectively imo. :(

Don't see Ozil for Germany or Sneijder for Inter defending much...

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Playing 4-2-3-1 requires the 2-3 to be able to be a fluid and cohesive unit - defending when we don't have the ball and supporting the striker when attacking. Our shower of s**** wouldn't be able to understand let alone play the system. They're just not up to it.

 

We'd start banging long balls to Carroll who would lose it and the 4-2-3-1 would become a 4-5----1 and we'd get a hiding. It's a great idea in princple but our midfielders can't make it work effectively imo. :(

Don't see Ozil for Germany or Sneijder for Inter defending much...

 

That's because Germany and Inter play the system well. You can defend from the front too you know.

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Playing 4-2-3-1 requires the 2-3 to be able to be a fluid and cohesive unit - defending when we don't have the ball and supporting the striker when attacking. Our shower of s**** wouldn't be able to understand let alone play the system. They're just not up to it.

 

We'd start banging long balls to Carroll who would lose it and the 4-2-3-1 would become a 4-5----1 and we'd get a hiding. It's a great idea in princple but our midfielders can't make it work effectively imo. :(

to be fair we'll do that ina 4-4-2 anyway.
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Guest Heneage

Playing 4-2-3-1 requires the 2-3 to be able to be a fluid and cohesive unit - defending when we don't have the ball and supporting the striker when attacking. Our shower of s**** wouldn't be able to understand let alone play the system. They're just not up to it.

 

We'd start banging long balls to Carroll who would lose it and the 4-2-3-1 would become a 4-5----1 and we'd get a hiding. It's a great idea in princple but our midfielders can't make it work effectively imo. :(

Don't see Ozil for Germany or Sneijder for Inter defending much...

 

That's because Germany and Inter play the system well. You can defend from the front too you know.

There has literally been 2 maybe 3 times over the 40 game season I've seen Sneijder defending, when I said defending I meant from the front, operating on about half way pressuring the midfield. Sneijder is employed as a luxury player. Ozil much the same, is not expected nor ever really defends. The two midfielders are employed to sit deep, and soak up the pressure.

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Shearer played this same formation against Liverpool at Anfield and, for the first 10 minutes or so, we actually resembeld a football team. It was only when we conceded the first goal that the players decided to stop playing. (cocks)

 

Not saying it would definitley work or anything........ just making a useless comment.

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Playing 4-2-3-1 requires the 2-3 to be able to be a fluid and cohesive unit - defending when we don't have the ball and supporting the striker when attacking. Our shower of s**** wouldn't be able to understand let alone play the system. They're just not up to it.

 

We'd start banging long balls to Carroll who would lose it and the 4-2-3-1 would become a 4-5----1 and we'd get a hiding. It's a great idea in princple but our midfielders can't make it work effectively imo. :(

Don't see Ozil for Germany or Sneijder for Inter defending much...

 

Podolski and Muller were wing-backs at times against Argentina.

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This is certainly the formation of the month/year...but there are two basic requirements. First the front four must have intelligent movements, off the ball and ability to interchange positions to confuse opposition's defenders. Second the team must have at least 2-3 really fast players who can break at speed. Sadly we don't have either, so this formation is unlikely to work for us. I'd rather we go traditional 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 because that's what our lot seems to be most comfortable with and pray really hard throughout the season - that's our best chance of survival.

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People only seem to talk about Inter and Germany, but Liverpool reached the dizzying heights of 6th place with that formation.

 

Formations are overrated. It's using the adequate players and good positional sense/coaching that makes the difference.

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I like the idea. If it played correctly, 4231 is a very solid formation that we've seen time and time again very difficult to break down. However, have we got the players to implement it? Have we got enough organization and command to stay solid? Have we got the discipline in midfield? Have we got the ability to stay solid yet still create chances? Doubtful.

 

We'd need 2 new Defensive midfielders for a start. Barton isnt a holding midfielder and niether as Guthrie. Smith is, well nobody actually knows what Smith is but e sure as hell isnt good enough.

 

Personally I think Hughton will go with the same as last season. A defensive 'whack it up to Carroll' 4-4-1-1 away and a little bit more attacking 4-4-2 at home.

 

 

This foramtion doesn't really require two defensive midfielders, more of a Pirlo/Gattuso mix - one defensive ball-winner/anchor man, and one water carrier/deep lying playmaker. Germany are playing Khedira as the ball winner and Schweinsteiger as the ball player. And you don't even need to have world class players to make it work - Australia has used it for six years with Culina and Grella/Valeri. When we tried two defensive midfielders it went very pear-shaped.

 

The key is organisation - you don't need brilliant players, just intelligent ones who are know exactly what to do and when to do it. Which is where The Prophet's otherwise very good team would fall down...

 

Sadly, I think Doctor Zaius' last line will prove correct :(

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It's not that much different from the supposed 442 we played away from home last year.

 

Yeah, this. Define one of the strikers as withdrawn and put him on the same line as the wide players and 4-4-2 becomes 4-2-3-1. Unless the strikers attempt to play side by side (which I would say is less effective), then there's no real difference.

 

As others have pointed out, what matters is the flexibility you can bring to the system. If you have players interchanging positions and making runs at angles which trouble defenders, then you make your system effective.

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I've been suggesting the formation for ages as we have players suited for it. And even better now as Butt's gone Hughton's not required to use baldy ginger anymore! We have 2 perfectly suited hard working wingers in Routledge and Jonas which is the biggest requirement IMO. Only which is lacking is a creative attacking central midfielder which Nolan isn't TBH! We have lots of combinations for the CM's and of course Carroll as a lone target man(although I'm not that confident of his ability to hold up the ball and bring others into the play against PL quality defenders). Surely our defence seems good enough at the very moment but they need cover from the defensive midfielders as always...

 

                            Harper

 

New RB/Simpson  Taylor  Colo  Enrique

 

                  Barton    Smith/Guthrie

 

Routledge    New ACM/Nolan      Jonas

 

                          Carroll

 

 

And there's decent enough backup from the reserves...somehow I can't see Hughton giving a chance for Vuckic so it''d better to loan him out to a better(playing) Championship side

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