Guest BooBoo Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Can no-one remember Colo playing DM at Man City last PL season and being really really turd? Yep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Can no-one remember Colo playing DM at Man City last PL season and being really really turd? Were the whole side not shite though? Genuine question, can't really remember. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Can no-one remember Colo playing DM at Man City last PL season and being really really turd? Were the whole side not shite though? Genuine question, can't really remember. This is why formations are utterly pointless if the personnel isnt right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QBG Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Aye its what England should have played instead of 4-4-2 and would work for us if we got the personnel right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Zaius Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 I like the idea. If it played correctly, 4231 is a very solid formation that we've seen time and time again very difficult to break down. However, have we got the players to implement it? Have we got enough organization and command to stay solid? Have we got the discipline in midfield? Have we got the ability to stay solid yet still create chances? Doubtful. We'd need 2 new Defensive midfielders for a start. Barton isnt a holding midfielder and niether as Guthrie. Smith is, well nobody actually knows what Smith is but e sure as hell isnt good enough. Personally I think Hughton will go with the same as last season. A defensive 'whack it up to Carroll' 4-4-1-1 away and a little bit more attacking 4-4-2 at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 It's just what we played away from home. Barnsley away showed how it can potentially work if we actually defend properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Does that mean Kevin Nolan is the equivalent of Sneijder/Ozil? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Does that mean Kevin Nolan is the equivalent of Sneijder/Ozil? Yes. He's certainly a larger presence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Get a competent player to play the role in the hole, and an actual defensive midfielder and I'd agree. However relying on Smith to cover the defence/maintain possession and Nolan to be the creative fulcrum of the side is never going to work - it will infact just help to show up their glaring inadequacies by giving them the greatest responsibility in the side. Germany's best players this competition? Ozil and Schweinsteiger, says alot about the importance of them positions to this system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Playing 4-2-3-1 requires the 2-3 to be able to be a fluid and cohesive unit - defending when we don't have the ball and supporting the striker when attacking. Our shower of shite wouldn't be able to understand let alone play the system. They're just not up to it. We'd start banging long balls to Carroll who would lose it and the 4-2-3-1 would become a 4-5----1 and we'd get a hiding. It's a great idea in princple but our midfielders can't make it work effectively imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Playing 4-2-3-1 requires the 2-3 to be able to be a fluid and cohesive unit - defending when we don't have the ball and supporting the striker when attacking. Our shower of s**** wouldn't be able to understand let alone play the system. They're just not up to it. We'd start banging long balls to Carroll who would lose it and the 4-2-3-1 would become a 4-5----1 and we'd get a hiding. It's a great idea in princple but our midfielders can't make it work effectively imo. Don't see Ozil for Germany or Sneijder for Inter defending much... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Playing 4-2-3-1 requires the 2-3 to be able to be a fluid and cohesive unit - defending when we don't have the ball and supporting the striker when attacking. Our shower of s**** wouldn't be able to understand let alone play the system. They're just not up to it. We'd start banging long balls to Carroll who would lose it and the 4-2-3-1 would become a 4-5----1 and we'd get a hiding. It's a great idea in princple but our midfielders can't make it work effectively imo. Don't see Ozil for Germany or Sneijder for Inter defending much... That's because Germany and Inter play the system well. You can defend from the front too you know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 No, anyone suggesting we play Alan Smith (in any system) in the PL is asking for a slap. Danny Guthrie alongside him? Wake the fuck up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 It's not that much different from the supposed 442 we played away from home last year. Would prefer two genuine strikers on the field. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago_shearer Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 You would need players of better technical ability and coaches with experience of the system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Playing 4-2-3-1 requires the 2-3 to be able to be a fluid and cohesive unit - defending when we don't have the ball and supporting the striker when attacking. Our shower of s**** wouldn't be able to understand let alone play the system. They're just not up to it. We'd start banging long balls to Carroll who would lose it and the 4-2-3-1 would become a 4-5----1 and we'd get a hiding. It's a great idea in princple but our midfielders can't make it work effectively imo. to be fair we'll do that ina 4-4-2 anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 Playing 4-2-3-1 requires the 2-3 to be able to be a fluid and cohesive unit - defending when we don't have the ball and supporting the striker when attacking. Our shower of s**** wouldn't be able to understand let alone play the system. They're just not up to it. We'd start banging long balls to Carroll who would lose it and the 4-2-3-1 would become a 4-5----1 and we'd get a hiding. It's a great idea in princple but our midfielders can't make it work effectively imo. Don't see Ozil for Germany or Sneijder for Inter defending much... That's because Germany and Inter play the system well. You can defend from the front too you know. There has literally been 2 maybe 3 times over the 40 game season I've seen Sneijder defending, when I said defending I meant from the front, operating on about half way pressuring the midfield. Sneijder is employed as a luxury player. Ozil much the same, is not expected nor ever really defends. The two midfielders are employed to sit deep, and soak up the pressure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Shearer played this same formation against Liverpool at Anfield and, for the first 10 minutes or so, we actually resembeld a football team. It was only when we conceded the first goal that the players decided to stop playing. (cocks) Not saying it would definitley work or anything........ just making a useless comment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Playing 4-2-3-1 requires the 2-3 to be able to be a fluid and cohesive unit - defending when we don't have the ball and supporting the striker when attacking. Our shower of s**** wouldn't be able to understand let alone play the system. They're just not up to it. We'd start banging long balls to Carroll who would lose it and the 4-2-3-1 would become a 4-5----1 and we'd get a hiding. It's a great idea in princple but our midfielders can't make it work effectively imo. Don't see Ozil for Germany or Sneijder for Inter defending much... Podolski and Muller were wing-backs at times against Argentina. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 This is certainly the formation of the month/year...but there are two basic requirements. First the front four must have intelligent movements, off the ball and ability to interchange positions to confuse opposition's defenders. Second the team must have at least 2-3 really fast players who can break at speed. Sadly we don't have either, so this formation is unlikely to work for us. I'd rather we go traditional 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 because that's what our lot seems to be most comfortable with and pray really hard throughout the season - that's our best chance of survival. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 People only seem to talk about Inter and Germany, but Liverpool reached the dizzying heights of 6th place with that formation. Formations are overrated. It's using the adequate players and good positional sense/coaching that makes the difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I like the idea. If it played correctly, 4231 is a very solid formation that we've seen time and time again very difficult to break down. However, have we got the players to implement it? Have we got enough organization and command to stay solid? Have we got the discipline in midfield? Have we got the ability to stay solid yet still create chances? Doubtful. We'd need 2 new Defensive midfielders for a start. Barton isnt a holding midfielder and niether as Guthrie. Smith is, well nobody actually knows what Smith is but e sure as hell isnt good enough. Personally I think Hughton will go with the same as last season. A defensive 'whack it up to Carroll' 4-4-1-1 away and a little bit more attacking 4-4-2 at home. This foramtion doesn't really require two defensive midfielders, more of a Pirlo/Gattuso mix - one defensive ball-winner/anchor man, and one water carrier/deep lying playmaker. Germany are playing Khedira as the ball winner and Schweinsteiger as the ball player. And you don't even need to have world class players to make it work - Australia has used it for six years with Culina and Grella/Valeri. When we tried two defensive midfielders it went very pear-shaped. The key is organisation - you don't need brilliant players, just intelligent ones who are know exactly what to do and when to do it. Which is where The Prophet's otherwise very good team would fall down... Sadly, I think Doctor Zaius' last line will prove correct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 It's not that much different from the supposed 442 we played away from home last year. Yeah, this. Define one of the strikers as withdrawn and put him on the same line as the wide players and 4-4-2 becomes 4-2-3-1. Unless the strikers attempt to play side by side (which I would say is less effective), then there's no real difference. As others have pointed out, what matters is the flexibility you can bring to the system. If you have players interchanging positions and making runs at angles which trouble defenders, then you make your system effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beezeri Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 I've been suggesting the formation for ages as we have players suited for it. And even better now as Butt's gone Hughton's not required to use baldy ginger anymore! We have 2 perfectly suited hard working wingers in Routledge and Jonas which is the biggest requirement IMO. Only which is lacking is a creative attacking central midfielder which Nolan isn't TBH! We have lots of combinations for the CM's and of course Carroll as a lone target man(although I'm not that confident of his ability to hold up the ball and bring others into the play against PL quality defenders). Surely our defence seems good enough at the very moment but they need cover from the defensive midfielders as always... Harper New RB/Simpson Taylor Colo Enrique Barton Smith/Guthrie Routledge New ACM/Nolan Jonas Carroll And there's decent enough backup from the reserves...somehow I can't see Hughton giving a chance for Vuckic so it''d better to loan him out to a better(playing) Championship side Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Would see a lot of 0-0 draws, I liked it as I think we would be harder to beat but just cannot see us scoring enough in that formation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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