Sifu Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 he did it in 15 mins on sunday, he just isnt up to match fitness....only one way to sort that out even if it makes Leon Best a bit precious Unleash him against Wigan (sorry Leon!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 he did it in 15 mins on sunday, he just isnt up to match fitness....only one way to sort that out even if it makes Leon Best a bit precious Best went missing on Sunday and Ben Arfa made an immediate impact. I would start Ben Arfa behind Ba & give him an hour to see how he fairs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Well I'm going to remain on the unconvinced list that it is a better style of play until I see it. If we are going to have two wingers getting crosses in, do we not want to strikers getting on the end of them? we dont play like this, at all ? Did Jonas not cross for a striker on Sunday......who scored. yeah, that doesnt translate to an intentional and constant method of play though. howay man I'm a tad lost what your point is? The idea is surely that Obertan and Jonas are meant to be racing down the wing and getting balls in for the two strikers to finish. ( let's put to one side how well either of the wingers currently do this). Add cabaye to this and we have a three pronged creative attack for two strikers to work off. Is this not how we are meant to be playing? (apologies if I'm been thick). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I don't think the wingers we have play in such a traditional style. Yes, they sometimes will get to the byline and cross it, but they also make short passes in the approach and look to work the ball inside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Discussing him on another general forum. Somebody posted this gem (had to share it): definitely has every chance of being top player of the year alongside other 'every chance to make it' stalwarts giovani dos santos, wes hoolahan, adel taarabt, salomon kalou. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 btw, if you watch the Tottenham game back with a cool head you'll see just how incredible he was on the ball. He offered so much to us going forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Discussing him on another general forum. Somebody posted this gem (had to share it): definitely has every chance of being top player of the year alongside other 'every chance to make it' stalwarts giovani dos santos, wes hoolahan, adel taarabt, salomon kalou. The fact is he's already made it in France and he's put in some great performances in Europe. He's looking alright so far but it's not going to happen straight away, perhaps people could label him a 'has been' but he's certainly achieved a lot more than the above players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Kakuta has just as much chance making it this season as Ben Arfa. More, more! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 he did it in 15 mins on sunday, he just isnt up to match fitness....only one way to sort that out even if it makes Leon Best a bit precious Best went missing on Sunday and Ben Arfa made an immediate impact. I would start Ben Arfa behind Ba & give him an hour to see how he fairs. He didn't make an immediate impact at all, in fact his contribution of running at players but losing it due to holding on to it too long was similar to how Obertan played over 90 minutes, only difference was he was slated for his performance. The reason the team picked up was because Spurs had just scored, so we had no other option but to take more chances going forward if we wanted to get anything from the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 he did it in 15 mins on sunday, he just isnt up to match fitness....only one way to sort that out even if it makes Leon Best a bit precious Best went missing on Sunday and Ben Arfa made an immediate impact. I would start Ben Arfa behind Ba & give him an hour to see how he fairs. He didn't make an immediate impact at all, in fact his contribution of running at players but losing it due to holding on to it too long was similar to how Obertan played over 90 minutes, only difference was he was slated for his performance. The reason the team picked up was because Spurs had just scored, so we had no other option but to take more chances going forward if we wanted to get anything from the game. He made an impact by simply being there - if you watch the footage of his time on the pitch, Spurs were marking him in numbers, creating space for other players to push on. Even if he brings nothing else to a game, he's a "fear" player simply due to the potential damage he can cause. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 he did it in 15 mins on sunday, he just isnt up to match fitness....only one way to sort that out even if it makes Leon Best a bit precious Best went missing on Sunday and Ben Arfa made an immediate impact. I would start Ben Arfa behind Ba & give him an hour to see how he fairs. He didn't make an immediate impact at all, in fact his contribution of running at players but losing it due to holding on to it too long was similar to how Obertan played over 90 minutes, only difference was he was slated for his performance. The reason the team picked up was because Spurs had just scored, so we had no other option but to take more chances going forward if we wanted to get anything from the game. he dropped deep, turned on the ball and ran at them through the centre, or he passed it off to someone else and made himself available further up. the results of the passages of play on sunday aren't what i'm talking about, it's the difference to the way of playing. Obertan stands still while an nufc player runs by him with the ball, and that's just one difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 he did it in 15 mins on sunday, he just isnt up to match fitness....only one way to sort that out even if it makes Leon Best a bit precious Best went missing on Sunday and Ben Arfa made an immediate impact. I would start Ben Arfa behind Ba & give him an hour to see how he fairs. He didn't make an immediate impact at all, in fact his contribution of running at players but losing it due to holding on to it too long was similar to how Obertan played over 90 minutes, only difference was he was slated for his performance. He lost the ball twice, maybe? Other times he retained possession and tried to work openings in advanced positions. Our equalizer went through Ben. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 he did it in 15 mins on sunday, he just isnt up to match fitness....only one way to sort that out even if it makes Leon Best a bit precious Best went missing on Sunday and Ben Arfa made an immediate impact. I would start Ben Arfa behind Ba & give him an hour to see how he fairs. He didn't make an immediate impact at all, in fact his contribution of running at players but losing it due to holding on to it too long was similar to how Obertan played over 90 minutes, only difference was he was slated for his performance. The reason the team picked up was because Spurs had just scored, so we had no other option but to take more chances going forward if we wanted to get anything from the game. He made an impact by simply being there - if you watch the footage of his time on the pitch, Spurs were marking him in numbers, creating space for other players to push on. Even if he brings nothing else to a game, he's a "fear" player simply due to the potential damage he can cause. They didn't treat him any different to anyone else we've got in an attacking position, Modric and Bale constantly dropped back all game when they didn't have the ball doubling up on us as did Parker who sat very deep when defending, it wasn't some special treatment for Ben Arfa's benefit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 he did it in 15 mins on sunday, he just isnt up to match fitness....only one way to sort that out even if it makes Leon Best a bit precious Best went missing on Sunday and Ben Arfa made an immediate impact. I would start Ben Arfa behind Ba & give him an hour to see how he fairs. He didn't make an immediate impact at all, in fact his contribution of running at players but losing it due to holding on to it too long was similar to how Obertan played over 90 minutes, only difference was he was slated for his performance. The reason the team picked up was because Spurs had just scored, so we had no other option but to take more chances going forward if we wanted to get anything from the game. he dropped deep, turned on the ball and ran at them through the centre, or he passed it off to someone else and made himself available further up. the results of the passages of play on sunday aren't what i'm talking about, it's the difference to the way of playing. Obertan stands still while an nufc player runs by him with the ball, and that's just one difference. He ran at them through the centre because that's where he was playing Obertan made a fair few runs from our own half too down the right, similar to Ben Arfa he often tried to do too much with it and didn't pass when he should of resulting in us losing possession. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 So what if it wasn't special treatment? Point stands that he draws multiple oponents on to him that opens space elsewhere. The key difference between Ben Arfa and Obertan is that Ben Arfa has considerably more ability. Simple. He will conjure up far more openings than anyone else in our team. That's why he needs to be given lots of possession as well as the accompanying freedom and time to work his magic. People are genuinely footballing simpletons if they are criticizing Ben Arfa's approach to the game against Tottenham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 he did it in 15 mins on sunday, he just isnt up to match fitness....only one way to sort that out even if it makes Leon Best a bit precious Best went missing on Sunday and Ben Arfa made an immediate impact. I would start Ben Arfa behind Ba & give him an hour to see how he fairs. He didn't make an immediate impact at all, in fact his contribution of running at players but losing it due to holding on to it too long was similar to how Obertan played over 90 minutes, only difference was he was slated for his performance. The reason the team picked up was because Spurs had just scored, so we had no other option but to take more chances going forward if we wanted to get anything from the game. he dropped deep, turned on the ball and ran at them through the centre, or he passed it off to someone else and made himself available further up. the results of the passages of play on sunday aren't what i'm talking about, it's the difference to the way of playing. Obertan stands still while an nufc player runs by him with the ball, and that's just one difference. He ran at them through the centre because that's where he was playing Obertan made a fair few runs from our own half too down the right, similar to Ben Arfa he often tried to do too much with it and didn't pass when he should of resulting in us losing possession. quite often gets into a decent position wide and doesn't know wether to attack the defender or lay it off, usually lay it off. against fulham he found oncoming players at the endge of the box, along the ground....makes you wonder if he values keeping possession above slinging it into the box in the air at every opportunity ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 he did it in 15 mins on sunday, he just isnt up to match fitness....only one way to sort that out even if it makes Leon Best a bit precious Best went missing on Sunday and Ben Arfa made an immediate impact. I would start Ben Arfa behind Ba & give him an hour to see how he fairs. He didn't make an immediate impact at all, in fact his contribution of running at players but losing it due to holding on to it too long was similar to how Obertan played over 90 minutes, only difference was he was slated for his performance. He lost the ball twice, maybe? Other times he retained possession and tried to work openings in advanced positions. Our equalizer went through Ben. He lost it twice out wide left near the touchline by not getting the ball in quick enough, another time that Spurs nearly scored from plus a Hugo Vianaesque header, that's just off the top of my head too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 he did it in 15 mins on sunday, he just isnt up to match fitness....only one way to sort that out even if it makes Leon Best a bit precious Best went missing on Sunday and Ben Arfa made an immediate impact. I would start Ben Arfa behind Ba & give him an hour to see how he fairs. He didn't make an immediate impact at all, in fact his contribution of running at players but losing it due to holding on to it too long was similar to how Obertan played over 90 minutes, only difference was he was slated for his performance. The reason the team picked up was because Spurs had just scored, so we had no other option but to take more chances going forward if we wanted to get anything from the game. He made an impact by simply being there - if you watch the footage of his time on the pitch, Spurs were marking him in numbers, creating space for other players to push on. Even if he brings nothing else to a game, he's a "fear" player simply due to the potential damage he can cause. They didn't treat him any different to anyone else we've got in an attacking position, Modric and Bale constantly dropped back all game when they didn't have the ball doubling up on us as did Parker who sat very deep when defending, it wasn't some special treatment for Ben Arfa's benefit. Watch the YT video of him before Shola's goal, pause it at 1.25. Has a triangle of 3 players trying to block him off, a canny proportion for 10 outfield players. As a sidenote, look at where his team-mates are and where they move to, we have to capitalise on that side of him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 The key difference between HBA and Obertan is that the later played 90 minutes sunday while Hatem played less than 20 minutes... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 he did it in 15 mins on sunday, he just isnt up to match fitness....only one way to sort that out even if it makes Leon Best a bit precious Best went missing on Sunday and Ben Arfa made an immediate impact. I would start Ben Arfa behind Ba & give him an hour to see how he fairs. He didn't make an immediate impact at all, in fact his contribution of running at players but losing it due to holding on to it too long was similar to how Obertan played over 90 minutes, only difference was he was slated for his performance. The reason the team picked up was because Spurs had just scored, so we had no other option but to take more chances going forward if we wanted to get anything from the game. he dropped deep, turned on the ball and ran at them through the centre, or he passed it off to someone else and made himself available further up. the results of the passages of play on sunday aren't what i'm talking about, it's the difference to the way of playing. Obertan stands still while an nufc player runs by him with the ball, and that's just one difference. He ran at them through the centre because that's where he was playing Obertan made a fair few runs from our own half too down the right, similar to Ben Arfa he often tried to do too much with it and didn't pass when he should of resulting in us losing possession. the fact that he ran at them through the centre is actually significant because he has the talent to do it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 he did it in 15 mins on sunday, he just isnt up to match fitness....only one way to sort that out even if it makes Leon Best a bit precious Best went missing on Sunday and Ben Arfa made an immediate impact. I would start Ben Arfa behind Ba & give him an hour to see how he fairs. He didn't make an immediate impact at all, in fact his contribution of running at players but losing it due to holding on to it too long was similar to how Obertan played over 90 minutes, only difference was he was slated for his performance. He lost the ball twice, maybe? Other times he retained possession and tried to work openings in advanced positions. Our equalizer went through Ben. He lost it twice out wide left near the touchline by not getting the ball in quick enough, another time that Spurs nearly scored from plus a Hugo Vianaesque header, that's just off the top of my head too. Comical. 1) This header you mentioned... His first game back from a year out against very strong opponents. Of course he's going to be a little unsure when a balls up in the air like that. He wont be making similar mistakes/actions in a few weeks time. 2) Him losing the ball... He is going to lose the ball a lot - get used to it. It comes with what he does. He will always be looking to draw men on and beat them, leaving 1/2 less players in front to deal with his attacks. That is his game and it's exactly what we need in the final third. You can't honestly be that critical of little incidents in his first game against good opponents, yet totally ignorant just how much his time on the ball changed the balance of the game? Christ. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 So what if it wasn't special treatment? Point stands that he draws multiple oponents on to him that opens space elsewhere. Yes the same as all of our other attacking players. The key difference between Ben Arfa and Obertan is that Ben Arfa has considerably more ability. Simple. He will conjure up far more openings than anyone else in our team. That's why he needs to be given lots of possession as well as the accompanying freedom and time to work his magic. Nobody has suggested Obertan has more ability that Ben Arfa have they? People are pointing out that he was average at best on Sunday when he came on and the Ben Arfa some Newcastle fans seems to be acting like it's sacrilege to point it out. People are genuinely footballing simpletons if they are criticizing Ben Arfa's approach to the game against Tottenham. Nobody is criticising his approach as far as I can see and I'm sure everyone would love to see our players running at the opposition as much as possible, people are pointing out that when he did run at players he was too greedy with the ball and lost it far too easily, if that puts your blood pressure up then unlucky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Strong post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 he did it in 15 mins on sunday, he just isnt up to match fitness....only one way to sort that out even if it makes Leon Best a bit precious Best went missing on Sunday and Ben Arfa made an immediate impact. I would start Ben Arfa behind Ba & give him an hour to see how he fairs. He didn't make an immediate impact at all, in fact his contribution of running at players but losing it due to holding on to it too long was similar to how Obertan played over 90 minutes, only difference was he was slated for his performance. The reason the team picked up was because Spurs had just scored, so we had no other option but to take more chances going forward if we wanted to get anything from the game. He made an impact by simply being there - if you watch the footage of his time on the pitch, Spurs were marking him in numbers, creating space for other players to push on. Even if he brings nothing else to a game, he's a "fear" player simply due to the potential damage he can cause. They didn't treat him any different to anyone else we've got in an attacking position, Modric and Bale constantly dropped back all game when they didn't have the ball doubling up on us as did Parker who sat very deep when defending, it wasn't some special treatment for Ben Arfa's benefit. Watch the YT video of him before Shola's goal, pause it at 1.25. Has a triangle of 3 players trying to block him off, a canny proportion for 10 outfield players. As a sidenote, look at where his team-mates are and where they move to, we have to capitalise on that side of him. Spurs done that with everyone of our players in the attacking position when we had the ball, it's called defending in numbers and putting pressure on your opponents, it was not some special tactic for Ben Arfa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 1) I don't think any of our other attacking players drew players on in the same way Ben Arfa did? They really didn't. None of them could hold onto the ball in advanced positions, whilst looking to forge openings, the way Ben Arfa did... 2) Average at best? In terms of what exactly? Yes, in terms of what he can offer us in the future... Obviously there is much more to come, but it's clear to anyone with more than a simple view of football that what he was doing on the ball exceeds the average... 3) He was not 'too greedy' in general ffs. It's exactly what he does in his game and it's exactly how he should be playing. Christ. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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