GuyP Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Kluivert was class but he was never in the very top bracket of strikers of his time imo. circa 2000-2002? Depends how big that bracket is, but in the top 5? id say he was... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Kluivert was class but he was never in the very top bracket of strikers of his time imo. Whilst this is true his overall game was better than a lot of those names you would mention. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 How many games did Kluivert start during his stint here? I know it wasn't many because he was up against Shearer. My lasting memory of him is he scored the goal that knocked a Mourinho Chelsea team out of a cup competition when they were champions with a glorious header. He was still a great finisher even when he came here but Souness didn't like him or Bellamy and got shot of them both. Then went on holiday with Shearer and Shepherd at some point. Kluivert actually started 25 games in all competitions. How many did he start up front with Bellamy? The only reason I ask is because I remember one game in particular where they both started together and Kluivert brilliantly converted a superb cross from wide delivered by Bellamy, and Bellamy actually went on to publicly suggest that their partnership was the best at the club. I think that rattled a few cages at a higher level and after that we didn't see much more of either Bellamy or Kluivert. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 How many games did Kluivert start during his stint here? I know it wasn't many because he was up against Shearer. My lasting memory of him is he scored the goal that knocked a Mourinho Chelsea team out of a cup competition when they were champions with a glorious header. He was still a great finisher even when he came here but Souness didn't like him or Bellamy and got shot of them both. Then went on holiday with Shearer and Shepherd at some point. Kluivert actually started 25 games in all competitions. How many did he start up front with Bellamy? The only reason I ask is because I remember one game in particular where they both started together and Kluivert brilliantly converted a superb cross from wide delivered by Bellamy, and Bellamy actually went on to publicly suggest that their partnership was the best at the club. I think that rattled a few cages at a higher level and after that we didn't see much more of either Bellamy or Kluivert. This was the Crystal Palace game when Kluivert scored with a backheel. Great goal. Think Kluivert and Bellamy started upfront together only a few times. They were the front 2 when Shearer was injured. Then there was Kluivert's injury problems too.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 How many games did Kluivert start during his stint here? I know it wasn't many because he was up against Shearer. My lasting memory of him is he scored the goal that knocked a Mourinho Chelsea team out of a cup competition when they were champions with a glorious header. He was still a great finisher even when he came here but Souness didn't like him or Bellamy and got shot of them both. Then went on holiday with Shearer and Shepherd at some point. Kluivert actually started 25 games in all competitions. How many did he start up front with Bellamy? The only reason I ask is because I remember one game in particular where they both started together and Kluivert brilliantly converted a superb cross from wide delivered by Bellamy, and Bellamy actually went on to publicly suggest that their partnership was the best at the club. I think that rattled a few cages at a higher level and after that we didn't see much more of either Bellamy or Kluivert. The Palace game? Bellamy beats someone then whips in a low ball, Kluivert backheels it into the corner. Superb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I think we where the last club Patrick was remotely motivated to play for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I'm not sure I like the idea of a #10 in modern football. For a variety of reasons. Will wait and see though. I wish there were more "number 10s." I grew up in an era that had Roberto Baggio & Dennis Bergkamp. So it's an element that I really miss from the modern game. Same here. I still think it can be an invaluable position when you have the right player in there, although the traditional version is undoubtedly less effective now that so many teams field a specialist defensive midfielder to plug the gap in between the lines. If he's allowed just to drift into space wherever it may be and pull people all over he could completely change the way we play, he also has to be willing to get into the box and beyond the striker too though. Think they call it a "false 10" these days, don't they? Where Ozil played for Germany in the World Cup and VDV played for Spurs last season? Ozil plays in a 3 man midfield in the Lampard role. HBA will be playing off 1 striker like a traditional #10. IMO the modern #10 has to be capable of playing deeper in midfield with some steel (Modric) or out wide (Arshavin) or upfront (Totti). No way did Ozil play "the Lampard role" in the World Cup, he played off Klose, as Sneijder played off RVP and quite a bit off Milito for Inter if I remember rightly. They played as second-strikers as much as they did central midfielders, if not more. This approach led to Spurs using van der Vaart off Crouch for much of last season and it was very effective, although I do think your worry about becoming over-reliant on the number 10 is a very valid one. That I definitely agree with. There were even times last season where our players would just pass it to HBA and then stand still and watch him, but I'm hoping with the new lads it won't be like that this time around. To get the best out of him we need to be getting the ball to him and then ensuring he has options when he does have it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Kluivert was class but he was never in the very top bracket of strikers of his time imo. circa 2000-2002? Depends how big that bracket is, but in the top 5? id say he was... Ronaldo, Henry, van Nistelrooy, Batistuta, Shevchenko, Raul off the top of me head were all better imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyP Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I think we where the last club Patrick was remotely motivated to play for. http://i24.tinypic.com/2pqxd.jpg weird but the way the 6 pack fades hints at a bit of a pot, yet he looks on the slim side there...he looks thinner at Lille than he was with us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyP Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Kluivert was class but he was never in the very top bracket of strikers of his time imo. circa 2000-2002? Depends how big that bracket is, but in the top 5? id say he was... Ronaldo, Henry, van Nistelrooy, Batistuta, Shevchenko, Raul off the top of me head were all better imo. Ronaldo was constantly injured round this point, Van Nistelrooy was only just coming into his peak, Batistuta was fading...all immense but Kluivert was up there like, just seemed dismissive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Going to be an "exclusive interview" with Ben Arfa on a programme in France called Telefoot on Sunday night, so hopefully mimi will watch this for us! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Ben Arfa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Ben Arfa I fucking love him. The other night I involuntarily spurted out something like "Oh, he's just great, isn't he?" when he was on the ball after about 20 minutes. I immediately felt bad and that the random big bloke to my right was going to call me a nancy but he just went off on a massive tangent about how much he was in love with him as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 The mere mention of Ben Arfa shatters the 'tough Geordie' stereotype, doesn't it? He reduces us all to a quivering mess! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza ladra Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 I'm not sure I like the idea of a #10 in modern football. For a variety of reasons. Will wait and see though. I wish there were more "number 10s." I grew up in an era that had Roberto Baggio & Dennis Bergkamp. So it's an element that I really miss from the modern game. Same here. I still think it can be an invaluable position when you have the right player in there, although the traditional version is undoubtedly less effective now that so many teams field a specialist defensive midfielder to plug the gap in between the lines. If he's allowed just to drift into space wherever it may be and pull people all over he could completely change the way we play, he also has to be willing to get into the box and beyond the striker too though. Think they call it a "false 10" these days, don't they? Where Ozil played for Germany in the World Cup and VDV played for Spurs last season? Ozil plays in a 3 man midfield in the Lampard role. HBA will be playing off 1 striker like a traditional #10. IMO the modern #10 has to be capable of playing deeper in midfield with some steel (Modric) or out wide (Arshavin) or upfront (Totti). No way did Ozil play "the Lampard role" in the World Cup, he played off Klose, as Sneijder played off RVP and quite a bit off Milito for Inter if I remember rightly. They played as second-strikers as much as they did central midfielders, if not more. This approach led to Spurs using van der Vaart off Crouch for much of last season and it was very effective, although I do think your worry about becoming over-reliant on the number 10 is a very valid one. That I definitely agree with. There were even times last season where our players would just pass it to HBA and then stand still and watch him, but I'm hoping with the new lads it won't be like that this time around. To get the best out of him we need to be getting the ball to him and then ensuring he has options when he does have it. The Everton game? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Hope he gets a cameo today Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Could be the best ovation for a player since Shearer came back from injury as a sub against the Mackems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 http://enpleinelucarne.net/2011/09/24/denis-brogniart-aux-commandes-7896/ "An exclusive report with Hatem Ben Arfa. The Newcastle forward has chosen Telefoot to talk about his return to football after a year on the sidelines. He recollects his terrible injury, talks about his doubts, and in particular about his hopes for this coming season..." Wish I could watch this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Apparently the were French film crews at the training centre and he spoke to them only in English. Pretty good stuff, seems to like it here a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Feels so fucking good to have him back. Still can't believe we got him, used to watch Lyon/Marseille in League 1 sometimes just because of him. Don't think has ever been more appropriate than when we first linked with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Really hope we get to see him today,such a lovely player to watch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Cannot believe we have him, loved how he came deep on Tuesday to pick up the ball to make play. Brilliant run for lovenkrands fluffed effort. Just give him a free role and be done with it, in fact just give him the managers job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Serbia Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 I think we where the last club Patrick was remotely motivated to play for. http://i24.tinypic.com/2pqxd.jpg weird but the way the 6 pack fades hints at a bit of a pot, yet he looks on the slim side there...he looks thinner at Lille than he was with us This picture from Ajax. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 http://i32.tinypic.com/sgihjl.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 I'm not just excited about Ben Arfa's return, but the prospect of him linking up with the likes of Marveaux and Cabaye. As the team this year appears to be more suited to Ben Arfa's game, as we've got rid of the likes of Nolan, who despite his important contributions is very once paced and not really blessed with the technical ability that Marveaux and Cabaye posses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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