Kevin Nolan

[quayside]

Unless the club were actually looking to sell him, accepted an offer, and allowed him to talk to West Ham it doesn't even get to the stage where he's discussing terms with another club, so I don't know where this idea we somehow had to offer him what West Ham did has come from. Same as with Carroll, the first move is from the club, not with the player being overly greedy.

 

My understanding is that he had two years left on his contract but he and/or his agent were looking for a longer commitment from the club and asked for a new contract. The rest is history. If you know different and can prove it I'm in.

[UV]

Unless the club were actually looking to sell him, accepted an offer, and allowed him to talk to West Ham it doesn't even get to the stage where he's discussing terms with another club, so I don't know where this idea we somehow had to offer him what West Ham did has come from. Same as with Carroll, the first move is from the club, not with the player being overly greedy.

 

Not saying you're wrong, but do you think it's really as simple as that? In theory it should be, but I wonder to what extent players become aware of other interest through their agents etc.

 

Anyway, I'm sure a key reason for the sale was that to get £4m for Nolan when he is only going to decline in the next few seasons was considered a good deal. Maybe that and the "style of football" change that the new signings are supposed to be bringing.

 

Thank goodness the new players are all going to be a success, stay fit, and be suspension free then. I didn't see the Leeds game, what did the new style look like with only Marveaux of the new guys out?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

When players who are in the first year of a long contract and playing well start talking about morale and trust, then I'll be worried.

 

When it's only unstable people like Joey Barton and people who have just been sold like Kevin Nolan, I'll take it with a massive pinch of salt.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Unless the club were actually looking to sell him, accepted an offer, and allowed him to talk to West Ham it doesn't even get to the stage where he's discussing terms with another club, so I don't know where this idea we somehow had to offer him what West Ham did has come from. Same as with Carroll, the first move is from the club, not with the player being overly greedy.

 

Not saying you're wrong, but do you think it's really as simple as that? In theory it should be, but I wonder to what extent players become aware of other interest through their agents etc.

 

Anyway, I'm sure a key reason for the sale was that to get £4m for Nolan when he is only going to decline in the next few seasons was considered a good deal. Maybe that and the "style of football" change that the new signings are supposed to be bringing.

 

Thank goodness the new players are all going to be a success, stay fit, and be suspension free then. I didn't see the Leeds game, what did the new style look like with only Marveaux of the new guys out?

 

Was that a response to my post? I was just trying to explain what the reasons for Nolan's departure might have been. Obviously the repercussions of the sale remain to be seen, I was just saying what the thinking behind it might have been.

[Dave]

Unless the club were actually looking to sell him, accepted an offer, and allowed him to talk to West Ham it doesn't even get to the stage where he's discussing terms with another club, so I don't know where this idea we somehow had to offer him what West Ham did has come from. Same as with Carroll, the first move is from the club, not with the player being overly greedy.

 

My understanding is that he had two years left on his contract but he and/or his agent were looking for a longer commitment from the club and asked for a new contract. The rest is history. If you know different and can prove it I'm in.

 

Can you prove he asked for it rather than the club offering it?

 

Either way, if they didn't think he was worth one then why carry on discussions in the first place? They've acted like cunts yet again, irrespective of whether we agree on the final outcome or not.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Two years to go is a good time to deal with contracts though no? Especially to avoid the Enrique situation and things like that.

 

Even if the contract offered/asked for was worse than he expected, better to know now that he's not going to accept the club's terms and sell him while he still has some value.

 

Don't understand why they needed to mislead him originally mind. I guess there is a the issue of keeping him happy during the end of last season, but that's a flimsy justification and can only work so many times before players start to mistrust everything.

[quayside]

Unless the club were actually looking to sell him, accepted an offer, and allowed him to talk to West Ham it doesn't even get to the stage where he's discussing terms with another club, so I don't know where this idea we somehow had to offer him what West Ham did has come from. Same as with Carroll, the first move is from the club, not with the player being overly greedy.

 

My understanding is that he had two years left on his contract but he and/or his agent were looking for a longer commitment from the club and asked for a new contract. The rest is history. If you know different and can prove it I'm in.

 

Can you prove he asked for it rather than the club offering it?

Either way, if they didn't think he was worth one then why carry on discussions in the first place? They've acted like c***s yet again, irrespective of whether we agree on the final outcome or not.

 

No I can't.

 

This is the quote I have seen which fails to mention who initiated the discussions, although if the club had done so you'd think he'd mention it as it gives even more strength to his gripe. Maybe there is another quote that makes it clearer?

 

“From January and shortly following the sale of Andy Carroll to ­Liverpool, I was involved in ongoing discussions about signing a new contract ­between four and five years."

 

 

[Dave]

Just querying your 'understanding' of it, which naturally adds weight to the current trend of Nolan being a greedy cunt.

[BlueStar]

Don't understand why they needed to mislead him originally mind. I guess there is a the issue of keeping him happy during the end of last season, but that's a flimsy justification and can only work so many times before players start to mistrust everything.

It's very short-sighted, given our current transfer tactics.  We no longer attract players with big salaries, which means when these kind of cheap options are available we have to be a more attractive prospect than any other clubs which may be sniffing around.  The more players we lie to and treat like absolute shite, the more chance the player we want is going to be mates with, or in a team with. someone like Nolan who'll quite rightly tell them not to touch this bunch of clowns with a bargepole.

[quayside]

Just querying your 'understanding' of it, which naturally adds weight to the current trend of Nolan being a greedy c***.

 

My understanding (and it is just that) is based on being unable to see why the club would have initiated discussions on a new 4 or 5 year contract. There was still two years to go on his previous contract and he would be 30 years old when that one expired.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Don't understand why they needed to mislead him originally mind. I guess there is a the issue of keeping him happy during the end of last season, but that's a flimsy justification and can only work so many times before players start to mistrust everything.

 

It's very short-sighted, given our current transfer tactics.  We no longer attract players with big salaries, which means when these kind of cheap options are available we have to be a more attractive prospect than any other clubs which may be sniffing around.  The more players we lie to and treat like absolute shite, the more chance the player we want is going to be mates with, or in a team, with someone like Nolan who'll quite rightly tell them not to touch this bunch of clowns with a bargepole.

 

Agreed. Less important if you believe new players don't actually care though, which I think might be a fair argument. Also, maybe they only mislead and mistreat people who they are getting rid of or see no future in. If that's the case then the damage might be not too bad.

 

I don't think other clubs are 100% honest in their dealings mind, maybe Ashley is just weakened by his mistakes enough that people now think he's fair game in the media. Also, no doubt journos are working hard to get these quotes from people like Nolan.

[tmonkey]

Nolan is full of s*** imo. "Forced out"? He had 2 years left, he could have stayed if he wanted to and earnt that new contract by continuing his form and proving his doubters wrong regarding his apalling fitness (and the notion that he'd turn into another Geremi or Nicky Butt within a few seasons). But he clearly knew his time was coming to an end, as he pretty much stated this in that interview he did earlier in the season where he talks about stepping aside in the first team in the near future (or something along those lines), hence why he was desperate enough to go to a Champoinship club who were themselves desperate enough to give him a 5 year contract. He wasn't forced out, he choose to leave because he wasn't up to fighting for an extension here, he wanted the extension given to him now and on a silver platter as a "thank you for helping us get back to the Premiership" present.

 

I also think the club were spot on in terms of changing their mind regarding a new deal. January/February was the start of his slide in form imo, as previously he had looked decent thanks to his high return in goals (which masked his ridiculous lack of mobility and creativity). Between February and the end of the season his form then takes a nosedive without Carroll around to set him up, and he already starts looking washed up. So his own form during this period would explain why the club may have had a change of heart. Combine this with our successful pursuit of Cabaye and I don't see anything wrong with the club changing it's mind about Nolan's contract.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Yep, can't really blame Nolan for jumping at a 5 year contract when his legs will be gone in 2, and can't blame the club for cashing in on him in that situation.

[captainhaircut]

I think the current situations with Nolan and Barton is actually what some people feared when we first heard of this senior player group. When they are all playing, getting what they want and wielding power, they will be positive.

 

However, they'll try to use that power to get contracts, control things well out of their remit and at that point they will become a negative infiuence.

 

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with the concerns these players have, but either way, they shouldn't have the power to cause problems when they are unhappy about something- no matter what it is.

[Guest H09]

We'll be waving goodbye to Coloccini next summer because of a same thing chasing away Nolan, Barton and to an extent Enrique and maybe even Carroll.

 

Supporters will put a spin on it, too old, can't offer that much that long, not worth more, too good a bid to turn down etc etc etc. Which is partially correct, but the reason we are not stumping up these offers is not solely because of that, it's because Mike Ashley is s*** scared and paranoid because he gave massive massive money to Smith, Xisco, Geremi etc and even Coloccini, I bet that is pissing Ashley off a treat. All those failures HE signed and HE gave big money to, now he wont give money to players who actually do the job he asked them to. Now we are being ran like the only business he knows, buy things dirt cheap and sell it on for massive profits. But this isn't a business, this is a football club, a sporting team, this could backfire badly.

 

Instead of offering proven players good deals we're going to let them go because we offered unproven players massive deals that went wrong. That sort of policy is what will ensure Newcastle United are relegation contenders, bottom half dross at best every year.

 

Look at Barton, club makes him an offer, sorry that length isn't good enough so i'm going to reject, clubs response fine then we remove our offer you can leave. You have the club and the players both trying to be incharge of the discussion process. Everyone knows the good players always have power, everywhere in football, Ashley is trying to break that and is acting like a dickhead agent because he f***ed up in the past. There is clearly a lack of negotiation, two stubborn partys, that includes with Nolan and Enrique and will be the same for many in the future. The club should be taking the initiative to get to the middle ground.

 

If we're not going to sign players because of their wage that is fine. That is cautious and probably the best method. But to start doing that with players who are our team, who are our success, now you're just playing with fire. What probably makes matters worse is by the reports the new lads are on gigantic wages, but that doesn't come out of the wage bill it comes out of the Carroll money so he doesn't give a s***.

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

We'll be waving goodbye to Coloccini next summer because of a same thing chasing away Nolan, Barton and to an extent Enrique and maybe even Carroll.

 

Supporters will put a spin on it, too old, can't offer that much that long, not worth more, too good a bid to turn down etc etc etc. Which is partially correct, but the reason we are not stumping up these offers is not solely because of that, it's because Mike Ashley is s*** scared and paranoid because he gave massive massive money to Smith, Xisco, Geremi etc and even Coloccini, I bet that is pissing Ashley off a treat. All those failures HE signed and HE gave big money to, now he wont give money to players who actually do the job he asked them to. Now we are being ran like the only business he knows, buy things dirt cheap and sell it on for massive profits. But this isn't a business, this is a football club, a sporting team, this could backfire badly.

 

Instead of offering proven players good deals we're going to let them go because we offered unproven players massive deals that went wrong. That sort of policy is what will ensure Newcastle United are relegation contenders, bottom half dross at best every year.

 

Look at Barton, club makes him an offer, sorry that length isn't good enough so i'm going to reject, clubs response fine then we remove our offer you can leave. You have the club and the players both trying to be incharge of the discussion process. Everyone knows the good players always have power, everywhere in football, Ashley is trying to break that and is acting like a dickhead agent because he f***ed up in the past. There is clearly a lack of negotiation, two stubborn partys, that includes with Nolan and Enrique and will be the same for many in the future. The club should be taking the initiative to get to the middle ground.

 

If we're not going to sign players because of their wage that is fine. That is cautious and probably the best method. But to start doing that with players who are our team, who are our success, now you're just playing with fire. What probably makes matters worse is by the reports the new lads are on gigantic wages, but that doesn't come out of the wage bill it comes out of the Carroll money so he doesn't give a s***.

 

 

Good post TBF, I'm not against what Ashley is doing to reduce costs but there has to be a balance between that and not losing too many of your important players.

 

I guess it comes down to whether you agree or disagree with each individual case. FWIW I do believe the Carroll money was too good to turn down, and I don't think we should have offered Nolan a mucg better deal.

 

There is obviously the concern that the club are causing too many of these situations to arise by the way they do things, but we'll see. Maybe it is part of the strategy to bring things like the Nolan situation to a head and get him out while he still has value. Underhand but not necessarily unwise.

[oldtype]

To be fair, if you bought a football club you have no connections with, plunk in a pile of money, then realize that you're terrible at running it, the fans hate you, and you don't care anymore, what would you do?

 

To be honest I think I think I'd do what he's doing. Just sucks for us as fans.

[Guest ykmkmdd]

Worth a little bump to document some of the West ham fans opinions on our former captain:

 

immobile

disinterested

on £65 K + a week?

 

 

do me a favour with this c*** and send him back on the 28 day distance selling rule= NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE!!!

 

so tell me- what exactly did he do tonight as the elder statesman/captain/leader-- just like saturday f***ing around drinking water on 90 minutes, misses a chance and they go up the other end and and score. I havent seen anything much from him- he;s doing exactly what BFS wants- in this case tonight f*** all. period

 

just like fat sam . big over blown f***ing ego merchant

 

slow;

cant jump

doesnt appear to have a short or long pass on him,

kind of gets near a tackle but really never makes it

did he win a header

leader ship?

 

shall i go on?

 

Read more:

 

http://www.kumb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=134242&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=60

 

 

 

[SimplyAnth]

Poor Kev.

[Tooj]

Sounds about right.

[Lush Vlad]

Bit of an enigma is Mr Nolan. Large segments of the Bolton AND Newcastle fans did not take to him at all. Might be a larger segment of us Hammers because we are more sophisicated. Pardew rarely makes a mistake on transfers and is a very shrewd judge. Made a profit on virtually every player he paid money for with us.

 

[Guest BlacknWhiteArmy]

They already have a Big Sam out thread on there

[FrenchWilliam]

Quite an interesting comment on KUMB:

 

"Bit of an enigma is Mr Nolan. Large segments of the Bolton AND Newcastle fans did not take to him at all. Might be a larger segment of us Hammers because we are more sophisicated. Pardew rarely makes a mistake on transfers and is a very shrewd judge. Made a profit on virtually every player he paid money for with us."

[taxfree]

"Bit of an enigma is Mr Nolan. Large segments of the Bolton AND Newcastle fans did not take to him at all. Might be a larger segment of us Hammers because we are more sophisicated. Pardew rarely makes a mistake on transfers and is a very shrewd judge. Made a profit on virtually every player he paid money for with us."

 

 

 

 

[Revolution Number 9]

Bit of an enigma is Mr Nolan. Large segments of the Bolton AND Newcastle fans did not take to him at all. Might be a larger segment of us Hammers because we are more sophisicated. Pardew rarely makes a mistake on transfers and is a very shrewd judge. Made a profit on virtually every player he paid money for with us.

 

Aye reetio West Ham do my fucking nut in.