Kevin Nolan

[Guest neesy111]

 

where's the :kneejerk reaction: smiley for this horrendous overreaction to Nolan suggesting to Hughton that a change could be made?

 

This Nolan signalling to the bench for Hughton to make a sub is a very worrying development indeed. I saw him do it and at first I thought he meant that he was injured and wanted to come off but no, it seems now that he was telling Hughton to make a sub but obviously not him.

 

I thought that at the time bit I wrote it off as something else. If he genuinely was signalling to sub a teammate off then he's an almighty cunt.

 

 

If I've read this situation right, I'd be more angry about Hughton allowing such behaviour. Get the fat twat in line immediately.

 

@ all of you. Get a grip. Dave is spot on here:

 

As club captain there's not a lot wrong with him suggesting to the manager that a change might be helpful. If it's not working it's not working, and the captain has the right to express his opinion as the designated link between the players and management.

 

The blind hatred of Nolan and the OTT fawning over HBA is getting out of hand.

 

Many people will say your defending of Nolan and his performances is out of hand as well.

 

I'm not sure even you know how you arrived at that illogical conclusion

 

Considering 95% of this thread is against Nolan playing next week then I think your in a small minority.

 

Apologies but I'm in a strange mood this morning.

[Stu]

That doesn't even make sense Neesy, since when was "being in the majority" equal to "being right"?

 

 

I'm wrong most of the time.  But considering 95% of this thread is against Nolan playing next week, then maybe you should admit your in the minority for once.

 

Opinions are exactly that, opinions. I don't really feel the need to change my view just because hundreds of others on a football forum feel differently, it's all about how each person reads the game and applies that information to the bigger picture.

 

My view on Nolan/Blackpool loss:

- was as poor as anyone else on Saturday, can't see a particular reason to single him out for "being shit" and hoping he dies

- was part of the same starting XI that did reasonably well in the first 3 matches so it would have been poor management to drop anyone for the Blackpool game

- the same midfield that were overrun in the first half began to make inroads in the second half before the subs were made, so the argument that Nolan/Smith were the cause for our defeat seems a bit too simplistic

- as a few of the sharper posters have pointed out, we made a similar number of chances against Villa but took those, whereas we failed to against Blackpool and paid for it by conceding on the break at the end. Can anyone honestly say that the Villa and Blackpool results couldn't have gone either way depending on the penalty miss/score?

 

I recognise Nolan's influence in the change of attitude amongst the squad over the past 18months, he's been appointed club captain by Hughton - a man who's judgement I trust and believe in far more readily than the majority on here - and that helps to support the view that he provides a much-needed link between the playing staff and management team.

 

However, having said that, if his performances continue to dip (Villa = good, Wolves = OK, Blackpool = poor) in contrast to other players in the team then his place will be under threat.

 

I don't think chopping and changing every week will help the team or any individual to maintain form and I'm still happy to believe that Blackpool was a collective "bad day at the office"; however, if Everton turns into a hangover, then changes would be on the cards.

[Doctor Zaius]

That doesn't even make sense Neesy, since when was "being in the majority" equal to "being right"?

 

 

I'm wrong most of the time.  But considering 95% of this thread is against Nolan playing next week, then maybe you should admit your in the minority for once.

 

Opinions are exactly that, opinions. I don't really feel the need to change my view just because hundreds of others on a football forum feel differently, it's all about how each person reads the game and applies that information to the bigger picture.

 

My view on Nolan/Blackpool loss:

- was as poor as anyone else on Saturday, can't see a particular reason to single him out for "being s***" and hoping he dies

- was part of the same starting XI that did reasonably well in the first 3 matches so it would have been poor management to drop anyone for the Blackpool game

- the same midfield that were overrun in the first half began to make inroads in the second half before the subs were made, so the argument that Nolan/Smith were the cause for our defeat seems a bit too simplistic

- as a few of the sharper posters have pointed out, we made a similar number of chances against Villa but took those, whereas we failed to against Blackpool and paid for it by conceding on the break at the end. Can anyone honestly say that the Villa and Blackpool results couldn't have gone either way depending on the penalty miss/score?

 

I recognise Nolan's influence in the change of attitude amongst the squad over the past 18months, he's been appointed club captain by Hughton - a man who's judgement I trust and believe in far more readily than the majority on here - and that helps to support the view that he provides a much-needed link between the playing staff and management team.

 

However, having said that, if his performances continue to dip (Villa = good, Wolves = OK, Blackpool = poor) in contrast to other players in the team then his place will be under threat.

 

I don't think chopping and changing every week will help the team or any individual to maintain form and I'm still happy to believe that Blackpool was a collective "bad day at the office"; however, if Everton turns into a hangover, then changes would be on the cards.

 

Must say I agree with that.

 

 

[The Prophet]

Stu, I can see what you’re saying but I think a majority of the unrest comes not just from the Blackpool defeat but from general observations made last season.

 

It's easy to forget to positives Nolan has brought to the side on and off the field the obvious one being goals. Last season in particular he brought a much needed stream of goals from midfield. He's at his most effective playing off the front man where he can get into the box and make a nuisance of himself. Then there's his contribution off the field and most likely why he was made captain. By all accounts we have a fantastic team spirit and Nolan is one of the major reasons behind this.

 

However for me, and many others, the negatives of his game outweigh this. Like I mentioned Nolan is decent in and around the box but this is because he thrives on direct, long ball football where he can attack any knock ons or loose balls. He is counterproductive to any attempt to play high energy attacking football. His fitness is absolutely awful, this was particularly evident yesterday there's no way he should have finished the game, this essentially makes him a passenger in a four man midfield. His short passing is decent when he has time and space on the ball but he looks absolutely lost when the opposition are in his face which will happen more often than not this season. These factors alone make him far too easy to mark out of a Premier League game.

 

I agree with the point he was as bad as anyone yesterday. People seem to of overlooked how poor Barton was. It's interesting when Barton has performed it has lifted the team this season but yesterday he was completely off the pace, the whole midfield was. However I think the calls for Nolan to be dropped have come from the reasons mentioned above and the fact we now have a quality alternative. It's too early to predict just how influential Ben Arfa will be but it was evident from fifteen minutes of football yesterday he will provide far more quality than Nolan. He's fitter, has better technique, vision and distribution, I don't think it’s a coincidence we looked far more threatening after his introduction. The only dimension it appears Nolan will provide over Ben Arfa is that direct threat in the box, you won't see the Frenchman being in the right place at the right time to tap it in after a brutal goal mouth scramble.

 

On the field for me I'd drop Nolan but it remains to be seen what affect that would have off the field in terms of how the captain and influential player in the dressing room reacts and responds to his mangers decision. For me we can't worry about that. Of course a team spirit is important and we'd not be where we are without it but quality on the park is just as, if not more important and I think Ben Arfa will provide much more of it than Nolan.

 

[merlin]

Stu, I can see what you’re saying but I think a majority of the unrest comes not just from the Blackpool defeat but from general observations made last season.

 

It's easy to forget to positives Nolan has brought to the side on and off the field the obvious one being goals. Last season in particular he brought a much needed stream of goals from midfield. He's at his most effective playing off the front man where he can get into the box and make a nuisance of himself. Then there's his contribution off the field and most likely why he was made captain. By all accounts we have a fantastic team spirit and Nolan is one of the major reasons behind this.

 

However for me, and many others, the negatives of his game outweigh this. Like I mentioned Nolan is decent in and around the box but this is because he thrives on direct, long ball football where he can attack any knock ons or loose balls. He is counterproductive to any attempt to play high energy attacking football. His fitness is absolutely awful, this was particularly evident yesterday there's no way he should have finished the game, this essentially makes him a passenger in a four man midfield. His short passing is decent when he has time and space on the ball but he looks absolutely lost when the opposition are in his face which will happen more often than not this season. These factors alone make him far too easy to mark out of a Premier League game.

 

I agree with the point he was as bad as anyone yesterday. People seem to of overlooked how poor Barton was. It's interesting when Barton has performed it has lifted the team this season but yesterday he was completely off the pace, the whole midfield was. However I think the calls for Nolan to be dropped have come from the reasons mentioned above and the fact we now have a quality alternative. It's too early to predict just how influential Ben Arfa will be but it was evident from fifteen minutes of football yesterday he will provide far more quality than Nolan. He's fitter, has better technique, vision and distribution, I don't think it’s a coincidence we looked far more threatening after his introduction. The only dimension it appears Nolan will provide over Ben Arfa is that direct threat in the box, you won't see the Frenchman being in the right place at the right time to tap it in after a brutal goal mouth scramble.

 

On the field for me I'd drop Nolan but it remains to be seen what affect that would have off the field in terms of how the captain and influential player in the dressing room reacts and responds to his mangers decision. For me we can't worry about that. Of course a team spirit is important and we'd not be where we are without it but quality on the park is just as, if not more important and I think Ben Arfa will provide much more of it than Nolan.

 

 

Good Post and good points about Nolan's weakness in being able to play high-tempo, pressurised midfield

football ; nowhere near fit enough and Barton might also lack proper fitness.

[Mick]

That doesn't even make sense Neesy, since when was "being in the majority" equal to "being right"?

 

 

I'm wrong most of the time.  But considering 95% of this thread is against Nolan playing next week, then maybe you should admit your in the minority for once.

 

Opinions are exactly that, opinions. I don't really feel the need to change my view just because hundreds of others on a football forum feel differently, it's all about how each person reads the game and applies that information to the bigger picture.

 

My view on Nolan/Blackpool loss:

- was as poor as anyone else on Saturday, can't see a particular reason to single him out for "being s***" and hoping he dies

- was part of the same starting XI that did reasonably well in the first 3 matches so it would have been poor management to drop anyone for the Blackpool game

- the same midfield that were overrun in the first half began to make inroads in the second half before the subs were made, so the argument that Nolan/Smith were the cause for our defeat seems a bit too simplistic

- as a few of the sharper posters have pointed out, we made a similar number of chances against Villa but took those, whereas we failed to against Blackpool and paid for it by conceding on the break at the end. Can anyone honestly say that the Villa and Blackpool results couldn't have gone either way depending on the penalty miss/score?

 

I recognise Nolan's influence in the change of attitude amongst the squad over the past 18months, he's been appointed club captain by Hughton - a man who's judgement I trust and believe in far more readily than the majority on here - and that helps to support the view that he provides a much-needed link between the playing staff and management team.

 

However, having said that, if his performances continue to dip (Villa = good, Wolves = OK, Blackpool = poor) in contrast to other players in the team then his place will be under threat.

 

I don't think chopping and changing every week will help the team or any individual to maintain form and I'm still happy to believe that Blackpool was a collective "bad day at the office"; however, if Everton turns into a hangover, then changes would be on the cards.

Nolan wasn't very good against Villa but his goals disguised his performance.

[Guest neesy111]

That doesn't even make sense Neesy, since when was "being in the majority" equal to "being right"?

 

 

I'm wrong most of the time.  But considering 95% of this thread is against Nolan playing next week, then maybe you should admit your in the minority for once.

 

Opinions are exactly that, opinions. I don't really feel the need to change my view just because hundreds of others on a football forum feel differently, it's all about how each person reads the game and applies that information to the bigger picture.

 

My view on Nolan/Blackpool loss:

- was as poor as anyone else on Saturday, can't see a particular reason to single him out for "being s***" and hoping he dies

- was part of the same starting XI that did reasonably well in the first 3 matches so it would have been poor management to drop anyone for the Blackpool game

- the same midfield that were overrun in the first half began to make inroads in the second half before the subs were made, so the argument that Nolan/Smith were the cause for our defeat seems a bit too simplistic

- as a few of the sharper posters have pointed out, we made a similar number of chances against Villa but took those, whereas we failed to against Blackpool and paid for it by conceding on the break at the end. Can anyone honestly say that the Villa and Blackpool results couldn't have gone either way depending on the penalty miss/score?

 

I recognise Nolan's influence in the change of attitude amongst the squad over the past 18months, he's been appointed club captain by Hughton - a man who's judgement I trust and believe in far more readily than the majority on here - and that helps to support the view that he provides a much-needed link between the playing staff and management team.

 

However, having said that, if his performances continue to dip (Villa = good, Wolves = OK, Blackpool = poor) in contrast to other players in the team then his place will be under threat.

 

I don't think chopping and changing every week will help the team or any individual to maintain form and I'm still happy to believe that Blackpool was a collective "bad day at the office"; however, if Everton turns into a hangover, then changes would be on the cards.

Nolan wasn't very good against Villa but his goals disguised his performance.

 

You could say that behind quite a few of last season's performances as well.

[UV]

He is counterproductive to any attempt to play high energy attacking football.

 

It's not like Nolan is standing there while the rest of the team plays this high energy attacking football around him. We simply don't have the squad to play like that, and one new player will not magically turn the rest of them into a team that can play like that. We have to live with that fact for this season at least, and Hughton has to try and put together a team that works effectively week in week out with what he has.

 

Nolan is playing as a forward. His job is to get into positions to get chances, to score goals and set up others. He did it all last season and he's been doing it this season. As long as he keeps doing that, and as long as he keeps putting some of them away, then he's doing his job. If there's someone in the squad who can do that better than Nolan then fine - Shola? Lovenkrands? Ranger? - but I'm not sure why everyone is so keen to shoe-horn Ben Arfa into that position when he's been a midfielder most of his career.

 

You say "we looked far more threatening after his introduction". Well he replaced Gutierrez, not Nolan. Perhaps that's why we looked better.

[Guest johnson293]

He is counterproductive to any attempt to play high energy attacking football.

 

It's not like Nolan is standing there while the rest of the team plays this high energy attacking football around him. We simply don't have the squad to play like that, and one new player will not magically turn the rest of them into a team that can play like that. We have to live with that fact for this season at least, and Hughton has to try and put together a team that works effectively week in week out with what he has.

 

Nolan is playing as a forward. His job is to get into positions to get chances, to score goals and set up others. He did it all last season and he's been doing it this season. As long as he keeps doing that, and as long as he keeps putting some of them away, then he's doing his job. If there's someone in the squad who can do that better than Nolan then fine - Shola? Lovenkrands? Ranger? - but I'm not sure why everyone is so keen to shoe-horn Ben Arfa into that position when he's been a midfielder most of his career.

 

You say "we looked far more threatening after his introduction". Well he replaced Gutierrez, not Nolan. Perhaps that's why we looked better.

 

Good Post

[Stu]

So we've got one player who runs his socks off all game, passes and moves well but has little end product and he's slated in one thread.

 

Then we have another player who doesn't move so well, gets caught in possession or tries to be too clever with his passing but has an end product and he's slated in this thread.

 

[Stu]

He is counterproductive to any attempt to play high energy attacking football.

 

It's not like Nolan is standing there while the rest of the team plays this high energy attacking football around him. We simply don't have the squad to play like that, and one new player will not magically turn the rest of them into a team that can play like that. We have to live with that fact for this season at least, and Hughton has to try and put together a team that works effectively week in week out with what he has.

 

Nolan is playing as a forward. His job is to get into positions to get chances, to score goals and set up others. He did it all last season and he's been doing it this season. As long as he keeps doing that, and as long as he keeps putting some of them away, then he's doing his job. If there's someone in the squad who can do that better than Nolan then fine - Shola? Lovenkrands? Ranger? - but I'm not sure why everyone is so keen to shoe-horn Ben Arfa into that position when he's been a midfielder most of his career.

 

You say "we looked far more threatening after his introduction". Well he replaced Gutierrez, not Nolan. Perhaps that's why we looked better.

 

Good Post

 

[Guest BooBoo]

Well said UV.

[Weezertron]

I thought Ben Arfa's favoured position was in the hole? That's why hughton has reportedly guaranteed him that role? It wouldn't be the case of shoe-horning.

 

Maybe I'm mistaken.

[Elliottman]

at the end of the day, someone has to make way for Ben Arfa. Nolan imo is the only option.

[Stu]

at the end of the day, someone has to make way for Ben Arfa. Nolan imo is the only option.

 

So we've moved on from the knee-jerk reactionary opinion of "useless" in the OP to the person who should make way for the new signing?

[JH]

at the end of the day, someone has to make way for Ben Arfa. Nolan imo is the only option.

 

So we've moved on from the knee-jerk reactionary opinion of "useless" in the OP to the person who should make way for the new signing?

 

Would rather try an unknown - we know what we'll get with Nolan.

[Elliottman]

at the end of the day, someone has to make way for Ben Arfa. Nolan imo is the only option.

 

So we've moved on from the knee-jerk reactionary opinion of "useless" in the OP to the person who should make way for the new signing?

 

ive said for a year Nolan shouldnt be in the team, so there is no knee jerk from my end.

[Wullie]

'Getting into goalscoring positions' is not enough for a player who is supposed to be linking midfield and attack. He's not being used as a forward.

[Guest neesy111]

at the end of the day, someone has to make way for Ben Arfa. Nolan imo is the only option.

 

So we've moved on from the knee-jerk reactionary opinion of "useless" in the OP to the person who should make way for the new signing?

 

There's nothing Knee-jerk in the reaction tbh.  Most people before the season was expecting this of Nolan, including myself.

[Wullie]

Fail to see how it's kneejerk when he was diabolical when we went down. I think he's a canny bloke and a decent technical footballer but he's blowing out his arse after half an hour ffs. He's a passenger.

[Skeletor]

I actually do like Kevin Nolan despite my frustrations with him. The problem is though that he doesn't have the physicality or athleticism to play in the Premiership on a regular basis. He reads the game well, gets in great positions, some times chips in with goals but in overall play he's a passenger because he can't keep up with the pace of the game. He's obviously done some good for team spirit as well but at the end of the day we just can't afford to be carrying a player like him in our situation. We need players who are able to contribute for the whole game.

[Guest neesy111]

Some people are taking people's form in the championship as an indictator of how they will do this season.  Completely different league with different attributes needed.  I would say strength was more important than pace in the championship, and now it's the opposite.

[Cronky]

Ideally, for that second striker role around Carroll, you want someone with some pace and / or trickery. Nolan is getting by on his ability to read the game well and get on the end of chances. He doesn't offer much else.

 

When Lovenkrands came on, he went back into CM in place of Smith, IIRC, and I think that's his better position at this level. Even there, although he works hard, his lack of pace and ability to control the ball when closed down are significant problems.

 

Nolan isn't the worst player in the side, but he is operating in the spine of the team and his presence does limit our options.

[The Prophet]

He is counterproductive to any attempt to play high energy attacking football.

 

It's not like Nolan is standing there while the rest of the team plays this high energy attacking football around him. We simply don't have the squad to play like that, and one new player will not magically turn the rest of them into a team that can play like that. We have to live with that fact for this season at least, and Hughton has to try and put together a team that works effectively week in week out with what he has.

 

Nolan is playing as a forward. His job is to get into positions to get chances, to score goals and set up others. He did it all last season and he's been doing it this season. As long as he keeps doing that, and as long as he keeps putting some of them away, then he's doing his job. If there's someone in the squad who can do that better than Nolan then fine - Shola? Lovenkrands? Ranger? - but I'm not sure why everyone is so keen to shoe-horn Ben Arfa into that position when he's been a midfielder most of his career.

 

You say "we looked far more threatening after his introduction". Well he replaced Gutierrez, not Nolan. Perhaps that's why we looked better.

 

The Nolan/Ben Arfa argued is born out of the fact they both play off the forward and my argument is Ben Arfa will more likely be more effective in that position and will contribute to us being a greater attacking threat.

 

Of course I'm merely speculating but as you say we don't have the squad to root up trees and we have to work with what we've got. Again the argument is Ben Arfa is a better footballer to be playing in the position behind the front man.

 

Fact is Nolan hasn't really been pulling his weight all season, even if we drop him and it turns out the alternative is poor at least it sends a clear message he needs to up his game and hopefully get into shape. I honestly can't see how he contributed to us looking more dangerous on Saturday, he was flagging around the sixty minute mark.

[Dokko]

With Smith and Nolan we've got two passengers for 90% of the time, though Nolan can at least score now and then.

 

I think removing Smith from the central role and putting Tiote in there for away games and HBA in for home games which we need to win (either dropping Nolan back or keeping him nearer Carroll) should make a massive difference on Nolan's ability on the pitch, his chances and overall play.

 

Smith is magnifying Nolan's problems ATM, he's the real problem, Nolan we can carry as he will return us goals but we can't carry both, unless Smith plays like he did at Villa, which tbh was his best game in about 4 years.