Andy Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 We never built on our good start by changing the team when the going was good and incorporating our better players. Blind loyalty to the shit players and has no idea how to get our better players into the team and playing a better style of football. Also people like Jonas look completely burned out and the injuries are stacking up. I've got certain sympathy because the lack funds means we have far too many limited footballers in the squad and as such he only has so much to work with. However it's inexcusable that he can't get more out of what we do have. Good post. He is Mr Cautious. Literally won't take a risk, both in terms of the football we play and the personnel he selects. The Ben Arfa situation is a perfect example of it... I thought for a while it was a personality clash, but now I think he's just scared to play him in case he loses the ball occasionally when he's trying to win the game -- it's not a personality clash but a philosophy clash. Ben Arfa plays to win games, Pardew picks teams to not get beat. Interesting post. That Wolves game was the telling one for me. Cruising at 2-0, they're on the ropes - what do we do? Retreat. Lucky (and I mean that) to escape with three points in the end. Glossed over at the time. Not the first time it's happened either. The constant James Perch/Alan Smith substitutions that have occured over the course of 2011 are evidence of it as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Our buying policy at the moment might not particularly suit Pardew. We like to recruit young talent from abroad, whereas Pardew strikes me as being a fairly typical old school English manager. There's nothing wrong with sitting back and hitting on the break, we used to do it brilliantly under SBR. Then we used to counter with pace and precision, these days we whack it long and hope for the best. It's all about personnel and putting the right players together to execute a plan. I would put my house on Sir Bobby or Keegan having our team fighting for 4th because they would both get the best out of the players that we currently have, Pardew isn't doing that. Simpson, R.Taylor, Obertan & Best are barely Premier League footballers and he's had us top 6 with them for the most part. I'm sure if Pardew had Ginola/Robert, Solano/Gillespie & Bellamy/Beardsley then we probably would be top 4. No way in hell, what an insult to Keegan and Bobby. I take that as a personal attack on them. What a pile of wank this forum is when we lose. Seriously what do you expect when we lose comfortably without even looking like we were at the races? Kevin Nolan feel-good stats will only take you so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Simpson, R.Taylor, Obertan & Best are barely Premier League footballers and he's had us top 6 with them for the most part. I'm sure if Pardew had Ginola/Robert, Solano/Gillespie & Bellamy/Beardsley then we probably would be top 4. Do I have to start naming players who are not Ginola/Robert, Solano/Gillespie & Bellamy/Beardsley? Pardew probably wouldn't pick most of those anyway. Andy O'Brien, Steve Caldwell, Darren Ambrose, Michael Bridges, Andy Griffin and Wayne Quinn for starters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 To be fair Keegan and Sir Bob would get the absolute best out of Ben Arfa and not have him on the bench at this stage, it's a no brainer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 That's bollocks that mind. It's not, both would have played to our strengths and we wouldn't bypass what should be a strong midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 He's made a lot of mistakes in the past few games, but we're 7th with a squad that is basically incapable of finishing any higher. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 That's bollocks that mind. It's not, both would have played to our strengths and we wouldn't bypass what should be a strong midfield. But Steven Taylor would have still got injured and Raylor/Simpson would still be garbage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Some insightful stuff in here tonight like. Next people will be telling me that Best isn't as good as Shearer and Obertan has nothing on Solano Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 But Steven Taylor would have still got injured and Raylor/Simpson would still be garbage. One of Ryan Taylor/Simpson doesn't need to be playing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 He's made a lot of mistakes in the past few games, but we're 7th with a squad that is basically incapable of finishing any higher. Good point but IMO it's slightly frustrating we're not using that as we should be and attacking teams rather than going looking for a point. The position we're in there isn't a great deal to lose. His remit is top 10 IIRC, we're miles ahead of that at the mo and have been for ages yet we've let it slip IMO partly by lack of adventure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 But Steven Taylor would have still got injured and Raylor/Simpson would still be garbage. One of Ryan Taylor/Simpson doesn't need to be playing. Aye fair point. Still though, if your comment was "Keegan/Sir Bob are better managers than Pardew", i would agree. But i don't think either of them would have had us in the Top 4 with the players at our disposal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Aye fair point. Still though, if your comment was "Keegan/Sir Bob are better managers than Pardew", i would agree. But i don't think either of them would have had us in the Top 4 with the players at our disposal. I didn't say in, I said fighting for which is a big difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkhead Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 But Steven Taylor would have still got injured and Raylor/Simpson would still be garbage. One of Ryan Taylor/Simpson doesn't need to be playing. Aye fair point. Still though, if your comment was "Keegan/Sir Bob are better managers than Pardew", i would agree. But i don't think either of them would have had us in the Top 4 with the players at our disposal. You can't say that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 He's made a lot of mistakes in the past few games, but we're 7th with a squad that is basically incapable of finishing any higher. But we're capable of playing with a much better plan. That's the only job we hold him accountable for really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Pardew has to take credit for the first 14 games. He handles the media well and created a good atmosphere for the squad. BUT..... He makes the exact same mistakes again and again. His persistance with Obertan and Raylor is, quite frankly, embarassing. His substitutions are mostly terrible and he'll give Sammy and Vuckic more minutes than Ben Arfa. Our tactics weren't working against WBA and he did nothing about it. We have a good team with fantastic individuals....7th place with Colo, Cabaye, Tiote, Ben Arfa, Ba, Jonas and Krul isn't overachieving. The worst thing is knowing that no matter how obvious these problems are, they won't be resolved soon. But the alternative if we sacked him would be worse. Terrifying, isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Pardew has to take credit for the first 14 games. He handles the media well and created a good atmosphere for the squad. BUT..... He makes the exact same mistakes again and again. His persistance with Obertan and Raylor is, quite frankly, embarassing. His substitutions are mostly terrible and he'll give Sammy and Vuckic more minutes than Ben Arfa. Our tactics weren't working against WBA and he did nothing about it. We have a good team with fantastic individuals....7th place with Colo, Cabaye, Tiote, Ben Arfa, Ba and Krul isn't overachieving. The worst thing is knowing that no matter how obvious these problems are, they won't be resolved soon. But the alternative if we sacked him would be worse. Terrifying, isn't it? Pardew is one of a pool of managers who could largely be described as "meh" - totally unremarkable, might do a decent job if they wind up at the right club at the right time, might get you lumbered at the arse end of the table. Unfortunately, bar the top six, we're all fishing for managers from that pool. Strikes me that, though he undoubtedly has his failings, Pardew has done pretty well for you lot this far. Given that, I reckon your last line is spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Pardew has to take credit for the first 14 games. He handles the media well and created a good atmosphere for the squad. BUT..... He makes the exact same mistakes again and again. His persistance with Obertan and Raylor is, quite frankly, embarassing. His substitutions are mostly terrible and he'll give Sammy and Vuckic more minutes than Ben Arfa. Our tactics weren't working against WBA and he did nothing about it. We have a good team with fantastic individuals....7th place with Colo, Cabaye, Tiote, Ben Arfa, Ba and Krul isn't overachieving. The worst thing is knowing that no matter how obvious these problems are, they won't be resolved soon. But the alternative if we sacked him would be worse. Terrifying, isn't it? Pardew is one of a pool of managers who could largely be described as "meh" - totally unremarkable, might do a decent job if they wind up at the right club at the right time, might get you lumbered at the arse end of the table. Unfortunately, bar the top six, we're all fishing for managers from that pool. Strikes me that, though he undoubtedly has his failings, Pardew has done pretty well for you lot this far. Given that, I reckon your last line is spot on. That's the thing though from a fans point of view, he seems like he's actualy a very good manager (atleast as for what we could get, like you say) but he has a stuborness that (again from a fans POV) seems utterly absurd. It's all ifs and buts, but I fully believe that had he brought in the obvious players earlier in the season we'd be a few points better off atleast. You could probably say the same about McLeish aswell like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 It's all ifs and buts, but I fully believe that had he brought in the obvious players earlier in the season we'd be a few points better off atleast. You could probably say the same about McLeish aswell like Maybe, maybe not, I don't really know, but I suspect - and this is a general point about football fans, not you or I or newcastle fans or villa fans - that very frequently when we say things like that - if only he'd bought player x or y - there are good reasons why it didn't happen. All but a handful of managers in the league are dealing with limited budgets and owners who worry about wage bills more now than they've done in a long time. I reckon this January will see a really low level of spending in general, and that will reflect more clubs operating within their means. Given that, I reckon you're doing more than OK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Pardew has to take credit for the first 14 games. He handles the media well and created a good atmosphere for the squad. BUT..... He makes the exact same mistakes again and again. His persistance with Obertan and Raylor is, quite frankly, embarassing. His substitutions are mostly terrible and he'll give Sammy and Vuckic more minutes than Ben Arfa. Our tactics weren't working against WBA and he did nothing about it. We have a good team with fantastic individuals....7th place with Colo, Cabaye, Tiote, Ben Arfa, Ba and Krul isn't overachieving. The worst thing is knowing that no matter how obvious these problems are, they won't be resolved soon. But the alternative if we sacked him would be worse. Terrifying, isn't it? Pardew is one of a pool of managers who could largely be described as "meh" - totally unremarkable, might do a decent job if they wind up at the right club at the right time, might get you lumbered at the arse end of the table. Unfortunately, bar the top six, we're all fishing for managers from that pool. Strikes me that, though he undoubtedly has his failings, Pardew has done pretty well for you lot this far. Given that, I reckon your last line is spot on. Not sure I agree with that tbh. We thought that about Chris Hughton last year but it's the same old, same old. It seems to me we are buying well so we are getting some good results due to those players producing. The manager is incidental IMO, other than basically keeping spirits high. West Brom caned us with far lesser resources. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 By 'brought in' I meant starting Santon and Ben Arfa ahead of Taylor and Obertan/Best, as opposed to buying players, I just worded it in the worst way possible I agree that we're doing ok though, well above our weight until the past few weeks, it's just irritating to see such a good start met with such a poor display of results, home and away. But thats just football! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 How's that bloke at Huddersfield doing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuv Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I have always liked Pardew and i, like everyone lese thought we'd hit the jackpot with him 8 games ago! Oh how fickle we can be. However, when you look at the wins we've had and the points we've put on the board, we've very rarely dominated games this season. I'm starting to worry about where this current mentality of Pardew will take us. If we don't finish top 10 this season(which is possible at the moment) then i think Pardew won't be given much time next season. But we have just lost and emotions are running high. But, christ his persistance with utter horse s*** is killing us. It's just bad management. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 How's that bloke at Huddersfield doing? Well enough to be snapped up by a far more foward thinking owner/chairman than Ashley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Only one person responsible for todays result. Pardew bottled it, again. I was wound up by half-time, by full-time I was close to furious with him. Gave Liverpool far too much respect, avoided playing the ball and allowed ourselves to be hustled. The players look like they lack confidence with the ball at their feet, but I suspect it's Pardews instructions. Looks to me like he's trying to play percentage football just like that muppet Allardyce. When Gerrard was getting stripped he should have grabbed the bull by the horns and had Ben Arfa come on at the same time. At least try to take the psychological lift out of that. And even with just Ba up front so many balls launched long, made me want to weep. Don't think I saw Krul release one ball with his hands, everything kicked long resulting in 'pool possession as often as not. Fucking horrible. Most of us thought he was spot on tactically with the win at Stoke, and he was. Has hardly got a thing right since though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuv Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Spot on Mr Logic. Pardew has been to blame for the last 4/5 results/performances. Tonight just made me realise it even more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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