Spudil Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Had Pardew continued to put out teams set up to perform like Wolves at home he'd be under extreme pressure, but he changed it and we've performed much better. You can only talking about what you see, Pardew was getting it wrong and showed no sign of changing things then boom, he did. Its great news and its give us a great end to the season, but to say HTT was wrong is nonsense, plenty of people on here were very worried where we were heading, whether they said owt or not is a different matter. I personally thought he was blowing it and was fuming. One concern i have left is that he reverts back to old at the start of the season, trying to protect points etc...if that doesnt happen and we see what were seeing now its only going to get better with better players coming in. This right here, gentlemen. I did not see it coming at all, I can't think of any logical reason that suggested it would come, nor was one suggested by any poster on this board. Negative tactics were accompanied by cries of "you idiot, how can you pass it from the back with simpson, willo and Krul in the team/ Cabaye is in terrible form" ect. Pardew's change of mentality also exactly coincides with Ben Arfa forcing himself into the team. Now try to remember objectively, Ben Arfa was not eased into the team or anything like that, he was thrown on as a wildcard, an "oh-shit!" button. And he preformed so well in those cameos that he simple could not be dropped from the team (fan pressure being a factor too). I'm not taking anything away from Pardew he's done unbelievably well. And I almost regret typing this already as this can of worms is in the past. But people gloating ' i woz right bout somethin' , 'will you admit you was wrong' is really irritating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Have to remember over half of our starting 11 had no or very little games for us at the start of the season. It's very easy to state we should be capable of x, y and z but players do sometimes take a little time to gel/settle. I can't see how Pardew deserves any criticism tbh, he was winning us points with players most of us thought were pretty awful at the start of the season playing 'safe' football and has gradually brought in the more talented individuals and made them key players whilst improving our style of play. I said earlier it is very easy for me to claim I was right (when in Rome..) but imo Ben Arfa now has all the raw ability he always had but also has a lot more to his game in regards to being a team player. Pardew isn't the first manager to struggle with the lad (I don't think there has been a manager who hasn't) but he really seems to have struck gold in getting the absolute best out of him. He has also brought out very good performances from players we never, ever expected had the capability to. Certainly,to an extent. Ben Arfa was working hard in all his appearances for Newcastle, he is better/ more disciplined/ mature now no doubt. But he wasn't a menace to the cause at all. The french posters even pointed out that he was working very hard on the pitch, tracking back ect. for his last run at OM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 As always. Yet he always gets shot down. RAWKesque at times in the Pardew thread Rubbish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 He's also rammed the "can't handle flair players" tag down a fair few throats as well. That was just laughable shite though really. Tried to just ignore anyone who came out with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 There was a point where Pards just said fuck it let's go for it! NOw the side are relaxed and playing freely. Sign of a good manager that he realised he was over compensating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 For the record, i've always liked your posts HTT. You always make important points. I just think you got it wrong on Pardew. In liar liar style 'and the truth will set you free' HTT has got it massively wrong with Pards! His justifications whilst intelligent, lack a complete understanding of APs man management and player development If the guy turns out to be a flop next season he has been nothing short of miraculous all season, and he will be forever remembered in such vein! In our top 3 managers in the past 30 years! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 He's also rammed the "can't handle flair players" tag down a fair few throats as well. That was just laughable s**** though really. Tried to just ignore anyone who came out with that. Another thing that was annoying was Pardew (during the period when we were underperforming) being compared to Allardyce/Souness. That was bullshit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 As always. Yet he always gets shot down. RAWKesque at times in the Pardew thread Rubbish It was about a month ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 It is very nice seeing 'this is the first time we have done so and so since *insert a time frame when we were brilliant*' 'if so and so get's so and so more so and so it will be the first time we have had a player to do that'. Basically I love so and sos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 As always. Yet he always gets shot down. RAWKesque at times in the Pardew thread Rubbish It was about a month ago. The difference is even when things were "going wrong" (which in the grand scheme of things they weren't really), Pardew had still done a really good job - people weren't just blindly backing Pardew. Dalglish, well I don't even know where to start with his shortcomings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I didn't always like the football Pardew served up this season, but I understand why he was doing it. His approach and selections were getting us the results that are the platform for this final push. The performances weren't always great, but the results generally were. IMO it's very much not as simple as saying "if we'd stopped hoof ball earlier we would have started doing better earlier", that's to deny the planning and assessment and re-assessment of our situation that Pards has managed to do so successfully this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Had Pardew continued to put out teams set up to perform like Wolves at home he'd be under extreme pressure, but he changed it and we've performed much better. You can only talking about what you see, Pardew was getting it wrong and showed no sign of changing things then boom, he did. Its great news and its give us a great end to the season, but to say HTT was wrong is nonsense, plenty of people on here were very worried where we were heading, whether they said owt or not is a different matter. I personally thought he was blowing it and was fuming. One concern i have left is that he reverts back to old at the start of the season, trying to protect points etc...if that doesnt happen and we see what were seeing now its only going to get better with better players coming in. This right here, gentlemen. I did not see it coming at all, I can't think of any logical reason that suggested it would come, nor was one suggested by any poster on this board. Negative tactics were accompanied by cries of "you idiot, how can you pass it from the back with simpson, willo and Krul in the team/ Cabaye is in terrible form" ect. Pardew's change of mentality also exactly coincides with Ben Arfa forcing himself into the team. Now try to remember objectively, Ben Arfa was not eased into the team or anything like that, he was thrown on as a wildcard, an "oh-shit!" button. And he preformed so well in those cameos that he simple could not be dropped from the team (fan pressure being a factor too). I'm not taking anything away from Pardew he's done unbelievably well. And I almost regret typing this already as this can of worms is in the past. But people gloating ' i woz right bout somethin' , 'will you admit you was wrong' is really irritating. But you're wrong. There were people that took in past form and what Pardew had said through his time here, his general interviews, his use of players, his explanations when we played badly and his admittances when things didn't go to plan and came to a different conclusion. Buy into what we felt he was aiming for, and the way he ideally would have us play. Sometime that faith looked shaky at best, but I thought that there was very little to suggest he was a negative manager, or married to the concept of 'hoofball' that some here kept banging on about. There will be many many more games where we fuck up, set up wrongly, or end up lumping it forward. I just hope the current form makes the likes of HTT hesitate from jumping off the deep end again when we hit a bad patch. I fear it wont. /Christ, it wasn't that many weeks ago he was still calling for Pardew to be replaced sooner rather than later. /But then, it wasn't many moons ago, he was fighting Allardyces corner, or siding with Souness over Bellamy and Robert iirc... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 South Tynedale Mag, you make some valid points regarding my criticism of Pardew and yes I was perhaps too harsh especially given our position in the table but some of our performances were reminisicent of Big Sam, Roder and Souness at times and I knew we had far better players than some of our performances suggested so while I was perhaps too harsh on Pardew, I did feel at times it was justified. Obviously talk of 'cockney prick' etc. were in bad taste but that was more down to emotions spilling over than anthing more malicious. And any coaching references regarding me being a better coach or able to do a better job were said in jest, more fool those who actually thought I was serious. Bear in mind, I once changed my username to CoachHTT in a laugh at myself kind of way. Back to Pardew... would I swap him for jol at the moment? No I would be mad given our position, the way we are now playing. however, as coaches or managers for me Jol is better than Pardew and in any other situation if I had to chose who I would like to see manage Nufc out of the too, the Dutchman would be my choice. Getting back to our performances and where we were at, after the Wolves debacle, we could have easily went backwards and regressed. We didn't and Pardew deserves massive credit for that but for me, and this will open a can of worms and bring further criticism my way no doubt, I think in the main, things have simply clicked for him and indeed everyone more out of chance than design. What he has been canny with is keeping things the same or as much as the same. In short, we've stumbled upon a winning formula and we've stuck with it. If it ain't broke don't fix it and that's what Pardew has seen. Our or Pardew's true test will be if we lose a game or two or get hammered. Will he stick with this winning formula or will he change things? Will he revert back to type? Likewise if for example Ben Arfa gets injured. Will he ditch this 2-1-3 or 3-3 formation up front and bring back Ryan Taylor to the right of midfield or Oberton in a flat 4? After we got beaten 3-0 at home to Chelsea, Pardew went all defensive in terms of tactics, team selection and even his press conferences, bigging up lesser teams and claiming a draw would represent a huge step forward etc. We suffered for that, especially in performances. I hope a similar defeat will not bring out the 'old' Pardew. Anyway... I now enjoy watching is play and long may it continue because with our players the sky is the limit when they are expressing themselves as we are showing. I wasn't there but watched Sky's game of the day and therefore the full 90 minutes and we battered Stoke. That's what a top 4/CL challenging side should be doing to such sides at home rather than a nervous, bitty, conservative 1-0 win over your Norwichs, QPRs and Villas of the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 There is no 'old' Pardew, isn't it possible he has more flexibility and ability to learn/adapt than you gave him credit for? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 There is no 'old' Pardew, isn't it possible he has more flexibility and ability to learn/adapt than you gave him credit for? I hope so. He is showing signs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I think he is playing how he wanted to all along, he tinkerded with it at Fulham, the first half was brilliant but that second half scared him i think. We signed Cisse, Pards persisted with 4-4-2 and when we had the poor run, 5-0 the Spuds, losing to Arsenal, he also realised when you want to tighten up a game and go 4-5-1, he had to drop either Ba or Cisse. I reckon he thought right seeing as Ben Arfa has got the message about workrate i'm going to give the 4-3-3 another go, best of both worlds fluent 4-3-3 going forward and 4-5-1 when defending. Thank feck he did, love it me like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 There is no 'old' Pardew, isn't it possible he has more flexibility and ability to learn/adapt than you gave him credit for? That is one thing that annoys me, it almost seems like a criticism or at least a patronising pat of the back that our performances have gotten better (despite us doing well all season) 'Well at least he has finally seen the light..'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 HTT has got it massively wrong with Pards! His justifications whilst intelligent, lack a complete understanding of APs man management and player development I think you are reading way too much into this man management and player development thing. If I were to understand AP's man management and player development plans I'd conclude that for the best part of a season he has denied us Ben Arfa based on some bull shit work ethic issue or easing in issue when the player himself has shown whenever selected he works has hard as anyone and that there has never been a need to ease such a player in. For all we know, this leaving out of Ben Arfa could have cost us the points that would have seen us securing a CL spot many many matches ago. Likewise perhaps Pardew was right and his man management and develment of Ben Arfa was all deliberate to get us pushing for that CL spot... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 There is no 'old' Pardew, isn't it possible he has more flexibility and ability to learn/adapt than you gave him credit for? That is one thing that annoys me, it almost seems like a criticism or at least a patronising pat of the back that our performances have gotten better (despite us doing well all season) 'Well at least he has finally seen the light..'. Throughout these debates you more than most seem to have been incapable of seperating performances from results and as such you make youself look silly at times with some of your comments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 HTT has got it massively wrong with Pards! His justifications whilst intelligent, lack a complete understanding of APs man management and player development I think you are reading way too much into this man management and player development thing. If I were to understand AP's man management and player development plans I'd conclude that for the best part of a season he has denied us Ben Arfa based on some bull shit work ethic issue or easing in issue when the player himself has shown whenever selected he works has hard as anyone and that there has never been a need to ease such a player in. For all we know, this leaving out of Ben Arfa could have cost us the points that would have seen us securing a CL spot many many matches ago. Likewise perhaps Pardew was right and his man management and develment of Ben Arfa was all deliberate to get us pushing for that CL spot... Pull that head out of your arse, that sentence is spot on and if you are still doubting it go see a hooker and get a gobble, you need one. On the other hand you maybe right all along Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 There is no 'old' Pardew, isn't it possible he has more flexibility and ability to learn/adapt than you gave him credit for? That is one thing that annoys me, it almost seems like a criticism or at least a patronising pat of the back that our performances have gotten better (despite us doing well all season) 'Well at least he has finally seen the light..'. Without doubt, he's been superb. Ground it out when he's had to and when everyone has been completely fit and he's had the full "First 11" he's gone for it. Regardless what some people say/think it's mad to say that Barfa could have started the full season, think Pards patience and discipline is paying dividends now. Genuinely mad season, was baffled/furious when we appointed him, but by luck or design we seem to have found our perfect manager. He has the swagger and ego you need to manage this club, but also the discipline and defensive mindedness to really make our 4 - 3 - 3 work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 HTT has got it massively wrong with Pards! His justifications whilst intelligent, lack a complete understanding of APs man management and player development I think you are reading way too much into this man management and player development thing. If I were to understand AP's man management and player development plans I'd conclude that for the best part of a season he has denied us Ben Arfa based on some bull s*** work ethic issue or easing in issue when the player himself has shown whenever selected he works has hard as anyone and that there has never been a need to ease such a player in. For all we know, this leaving out of Ben Arfa could have cost us the points that would have seen us securing a CL spot many many matches ago. Likewise perhaps Pardew was right and his man management and develment of Ben Arfa was all deliberate to get us pushing for that CL spot... Pull that head out of your arse, that sentence is spot on and if you are still doubting it go see a hooker and get a gobble, you need one. On the other hand you maybe right all along That as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpeth mag Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Happy to have a lucky manager if thats how he stumbled on the present formation. Personally think he got here by design but think its fair to say we could have reached the present formation and players sooner. I think we had such a good start in terms of results that it was too easy to stick with the early season formula. We tried the 433 pre Xmas but the signing of Cisse, the realisation that HBA has to play and the move of Jonas to a central holding player has only really happened these last six games. Additionally Cabaye looks at home in a midfield three though I think he could player deeper or in the role he played against Stoke. Santon has also looked stronger recently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Had Pardew continued to put out teams set up to perform like Wolves at home he'd be under extreme pressure, but he changed it and we've performed much better. You can only talking about what you see, Pardew was getting it wrong and showed no sign of changing things then boom, he did. Its great news and its give us a great end to the season, but to say HTT was wrong is nonsense, plenty of people on here were very worried where we were heading, whether they said owt or not is a different matter. I personally thought he was blowing it and was fuming. One concern i have left is that he reverts back to old at the start of the season, trying to protect points etc...if that doesnt happen and we see what were seeing now its only going to get better with better players coming in. This right here, gentlemen. I did not see it coming at all, I can't think of any logical reason that suggested it would come, nor was one suggested by any poster on this board. Negative tactics were accompanied by cries of "you idiot, how can you pass it from the back with simpson, willo and Krul in the team/ Cabaye is in terrible form" ect. Pardew's change of mentality also exactly coincides with Ben Arfa forcing himself into the team. Now try to remember objectively, Ben Arfa was not eased into the team or anything like that, he was thrown on as a wildcard, an "oh-s***!" button. And he preformed so well in those cameos that he simple could not be dropped from the team (fan pressure being a factor too). I'm not taking anything away from Pardew he's done unbelievably well. And I almost regret typing this already as this can of worms is in the past. But people gloating ' i woz right bout somethin' , 'will you admit you was wrong' is really irritating. But you're wrong. There were people that took in past form and what Pardew had said through his time here, his general interviews, his use of players, his explanations when we played badly and his admittances when things didn't go to plan and came to a different conclusion. Buy into what we felt he was aiming for, and the way he ideally would have us play. Sometime that faith looked shaky at best, but I thought that there was very little to suggest he was a negative manager, or married to the concept of 'hoofball' that some here kept banging on about. There will be many many more games where we f*** up, set up wrongly, or end up lumping it forward. I just hope the current form makes the likes of HTT hesitate from jumping off the deep end again when we hit a bad patch. I fear it wont. /Christ, it wasn't that many weeks ago he was still calling for Pardew to be replaced sooner rather than later. /But then, it wasn't many moons ago, he was fighting Allardyces corner, or siding with Souness over Bellamy and Robert iirc... Revisionist to the extreme, did you watch ANY of the games where he was accused of this? There was open conflict on the pitch as Demba Ba was arguing with Coloccini for Krul to stop punting it up the pitch every time he got it in at least 1 game that I saw. Krul, and Colo, to their credit, kept on doing what they were told to do by their manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 HTT has got it massively wrong with Pards! His justifications whilst intelligent, lack a complete understanding of APs man management and player development I think you are reading way too much into this man management and player development thing. If I were to understand AP's man management and player development plans I'd conclude that for the best part of a season he has denied us Ben Arfa based on some bull s*** work ethic issue or easing in issue when the player himself has shown whenever selected he works has hard as anyone and that there has never been a need to ease such a player in. For all we know, this leaving out of Ben Arfa could have cost us the points that would have seen us securing a CL spot many many matches ago. Likewise perhaps Pardew was right and his man management and develment of Ben Arfa was all deliberate to get us pushing for that CL spot... Pull that head out of your arse, that sentence is spot on and if you are still doubting it go see a hooker and get a gobble, you need one. On the other hand you maybe right all along I think he's win win tbh If we get CL the guys a fucking genius If we finish 6th the guys a hell of a manager Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts