Football's greatest - where does Lionel Messi rank?

[Guest Haris Vuckic]

 

Good post Mole.

[Beren]

The must win WC is rubbish imo, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Puskas, Eusebio etc etc never won it why does Messi need to? he has already dominated the club scene for nearly half a decade and shows no sign of letting up.

 

Plus Club level is a higher level than WC now imo and has been since the 80s.

 

Also whats this rubbish about having to prove yourself outside your comfort zone? No one ever said Maldini had to leave Milan, Eusebio had to leave Benfica, Di Stefano had to leave Madrid etc etc.

 

He's not there yet as far as iam concerned but he can get there if he keeps dominating at club level the way he has been in the last few years.

 

I for one think its stupid how much hype is around winning a WC,a month long tournament that happens once every 4 years after playing around 50+ game season.

 

European Cup/CL > World Cup, Always has been and always will be.

 

This strikes me as very defensive, tbh. As I've discussed with Sewelly before, no one bases "world's greatest ever" purely on their World Cup play, but why do Messi fans seem so absolutely dismissive of it, as though it were a pre-season friendly or a kick in the park with your son? It does not provide a full measure of a player's greatness, but why can it not be a component part of an assessment?

[Nobody]

The must win WC is rubbish imo, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Puskas, Eusebio etc etc never won it why does Messi need to? he has already dominated the club scene for nearly half a decade and shows no sign of letting up.

 

Plus Club level is a higher level than WC now imo and has been since the 80s.

 

Also whats this rubbish about having to prove yourself outside your comfort zone? No one ever said Maldini had to leave Milan, Eusebio had to leave Benfica, Di Stefano had to leave Madrid etc etc.

 

He's not there yet as far as iam concerned but he can get there if he keeps dominating at club level the way he has been in the last few years.

 

I for one think its stupid how much hype is around winning a WC,a month long tournament that happens once every 4 years after playing around 50+ game season.

 

European Cup/CL > World Cup, Always has been and always will be.

 

This strikes me as very defensive, tbh. As I've discussed with Sewelly before, no one bases "world's greatest ever" purely on their World Cup play, but why do Messi fans seem so absolutely dismissive of it, as though it were a pre-season friendly or a kick in the park with your son? It does not provide a full measure of a player's greatness, but why can it not be a component part of an assessment?

Felipao does

[Beren]

[Mole_Toonfan]

The must win WC is rubbish imo, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Puskas, Eusebio etc etc never won it why does Messi need to? he has already dominated the club scene for nearly half a decade and shows no sign of letting up.

 

Plus Club level is a higher level than WC now imo and has been since the 80s.

 

Also whats this rubbish about having to prove yourself outside your comfort zone? No one ever said Maldini had to leave Milan, Eusebio had to leave Benfica, Di Stefano had to leave Madrid etc etc.

 

He's not there yet as far as iam concerned but he can get there if he keeps dominating at club level the way he has been in the last few years.

 

I for one think its stupid how much hype is around winning a WC,a month long tournament that happens once every 4 years after playing around 50+ game season.

 

European Cup/CL > World Cup, Always has been and always will be.

 

This strikes me as very defensive, tbh. As I've discussed with Sewelly before, no one bases "world's greatest ever" purely on their World Cup play, but why do Messi fans seem so absolutely dismissive of it, as though it were a pre-season friendly or a kick in the park with your son? It does not provide a full measure of a player's greatness, but why can it not be a component part of an assessment?

 

I am not a Messi fan, i just find it weird how WC is rated so high above everything else......

 

For example, people rate Ronaldo and Zidane pretty much purely for thier WC performances when ever you say to the average football fan they would say " did you see him for Brazil at that WC"

 

It's like thier club performances is completely ignored and its not like the level of football at WC's in recent of years have been any higher than a standard CL knockout phase.

 

Oh and it can be part of the assessment i just dont think it should be the defining factor to decide who is a GOAT or not.

[Flip]

The must win WC is rubbish imo, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Puskas, Eusebio etc etc never won it why does Messi need to? he has already dominated the club scene for nearly half a decade and shows no sign of letting up.

 

Plus Club level is a higher level than WC now imo and has been since the 80s.

 

Also whats this rubbish about having to prove yourself outside your comfort zone? No one ever said Maldini had to leave Milan, Eusebio had to leave Benfica, Di Stefano had to leave Madrid etc etc.

 

He's not there yet as far as iam concerned but he can get there if he keeps dominating at club level the way he has been in the last few years.

 

I for one think its stupid how much hype is around winning a WC,a month long tournament that happens once every 4 years after playing around 50+ game season.

 

European Cup/CL > World Cup, Always has been and always will be.

 

First of all, well done for interpreting stuff to your own advantage. 2nd of all, World Cup is the biggest football tournament in the World, like it or not, just because your national team is fucking shit doesnt mean the rest of the World doest see it like that. With that said the Argentinian people wont consider Messi the best until he wins a World Cup.

 

Also with comfort zone I dont mean leaving Barcelona, absolutely not, if you had read my post prior to the one you quotes I have said over and over again that Messi should stay at Barcelona for ever. However, he needs to produce at international level with Argentina. You cannot say you are the best ever if you cant make a team consisting of the best players in the World a top national side. Argentinas national team is quite embarassing and Messi inability to adapt to different systems is a large part to it.

 

Also Di Stefano, Eusebio, Cruyff are not top three of all time because they never wonthe World Cup. Di Stefano won 4-5 straight Champions League titles yet never considered the best in his country (when will Messi do that?? ).

 

Please understand where I am coming from. If you put Messi onto the pitch with Pele, Messi would be a much better player, but I try to view it from the perspective of who was the best with the resources they had?

 

Pele was treated 10 times worse than Messi by opposition. (yellow card or subs didnt even exist back then and just watch footage of the 1966 World Cup and you will see what I am talking about)

Pele was more dominant in his era than Messi is in his. 

Pele was more complete as a player.

Pele stopped a war. (Nigerian Civil War)

Pele won three World Cups. (although one was all due to Garrincha)

Pele scored over 1000 -official- goals (many of those games are considered friendlies nowadays but wasnt the same back then if you read about past football history. I mean those -friendlies- came against top European sides who Pele refused to sign with and who he absolutely dominated.)

Pele also managed to get sent off and put back on the field by the oppositions president as they told the referee to leave the arena for being unfair towards Pele for sending him off. (wont happen nowadays obviously, but just shows how big and important he was in his time)

 

I love Messi, I always discuss how Neymar is from a different planet, but how Messi is from an even further one.  So dont get me wrong, just dont get the wrong impression of Pele or Maradona for that matter.

[Flip]

The must win WC is rubbish imo, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Puskas, Eusebio etc etc never won it why does Messi need to? he has already dominated the club scene for nearly half a decade and shows no sign of letting up.

 

Plus Club level is a higher level than WC now imo and has been since the 80s.

 

Also whats this rubbish about having to prove yourself outside your comfort zone? No one ever said Maldini had to leave Milan, Eusebio had to leave Benfica, Di Stefano had to leave Madrid etc etc.

 

He's not there yet as far as iam concerned but he can get there if he keeps dominating at club level the way he has been in the last few years.

 

I for one think its stupid how much hype is around winning a WC,a month long tournament that happens once every 4 years after playing around 50+ game season.

 

European Cup/CL > World Cup, Always has been and always will be.

 

This strikes me as very defensive, tbh. As I've discussed with Sewelly before, no one bases "world's greatest ever" purely on their World Cup play, but why do Messi fans seem so absolutely dismissive of it, as though it were a pre-season friendly or a kick in the park with your son? It does not provide a full measure of a player's greatness, but why can it not be a component part of an assessment?

Felipao does

 

Not going to bite since I have stated over and over again why I dont consider Messi the best of all time. Ridiculous to say I do when I dont, it sure is an important criteria but isnt only because of that. So read again, read right

[Flip]

The must win WC is rubbish imo, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Puskas, Eusebio etc etc never won it why does Messi need to? he has already dominated the club scene for nearly half a decade and shows no sign of letting up.

 

Plus Club level is a higher level than WC now imo and has been since the 80s.

 

Also whats this rubbish about having to prove yourself outside your comfort zone? No one ever said Maldini had to leave Milan, Eusebio had to leave Benfica, Di Stefano had to leave Madrid etc etc.

 

He's not there yet as far as iam concerned but he can get there if he keeps dominating at club level the way he has been in the last few years.

 

I for one think its stupid how much hype is around winning a WC,a month long tournament that happens once every 4 years after playing around 50+ game season.

 

European Cup/CL > World Cup, Always has been and always will be.

 

This strikes me as very defensive, tbh. As I've discussed with Sewelly before, no one bases "world's greatest ever" purely on their World Cup play, but why do Messi fans seem so absolutely dismissive of it, as though it were a pre-season friendly or a kick in the park with your son? It does not provide a full measure of a player's greatness, but why can it not be a component part of an assessment?

 

I am not a Messi fan, i just find it weird how WC is rated so high above everything else......

 

For example, people rate Ronaldo and Zidane pretty much purely for thier WC performances when ever you say to the average football fan they would say " did you see him for Brazil at that WC"

 

It's like thier club performances is completely ignored and its not like the level of football at WC's in recent of years have been any higher than a standard CL knockout phase.

 

Oh and it can be part of the assessment i just dont think it should be the defining factor to decide who is a GOAT or not.

 

? ? ?

[Neil]

Could it just be the case here that Messi doesn't necessarily have to win the World Cup to be considered the greatest ever, likewise, if he does, he'll convince those who see the World Cup as that important to a player's all-time rating that he really is the best ever?

 

In terms of sheer unwavering talent, he's the best I've seen. Hopefully there are many, many more years of him at this level. It's phenomenal how far ahead of everyone else he is.

[Mole_Toonfan]

The must win WC is rubbish imo, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Puskas, Eusebio etc etc never won it why does Messi need to? he has already dominated the club scene for nearly half a decade and shows no sign of letting up.

 

Plus Club level is a higher level than WC now imo and has been since the 80s.

 

Also whats this rubbish about having to prove yourself outside your comfort zone? No one ever said Maldini had to leave Milan, Eusebio had to leave Benfica, Di Stefano had to leave Madrid etc etc.

 

He's not there yet as far as iam concerned but he can get there if he keeps dominating at club level the way he has been in the last few years.

 

I for one think its stupid how much hype is around winning a WC,a month long tournament that happens once every 4 years after playing around 50+ game season.

 

European Cup/CL > World Cup, Always has been and always will be.

 

First of all, well done for interpreting stuff to your own advantage. 2nd of all, World Cup is the biggest football tournament in the World, like it or not, just because your national team is f***ing s*** doesnt mean the rest of the World doest see it like that. With that said the Argentinian people wont consider Messi the best until he wins a World Cup.

 

Also with comfort zone I dont mean leaving Barcelona, absolutely not, if you had read my post prior to the one you quotes I have said over and over again that Messi should stay at Barcelona for ever. However, he needs to produce at international level with Argentina. You cannot say you are the best ever if you cant make a team consisting of the best players in the World a top national side. Argentinas national team is quite embarassing and Messi inability to adapt to different systems is a large part to it.

 

Also Di Stefano, Eusebio, Cruyff are not top three of all time because they never wonthe World Cup. Di Stefano won 4-5 straight Champions League titles yet never considered the best in his country (when will Messi do that?? ).

 

Please understand where I am coming from. If you put Messi onto the pitch with Pele, Messi would be a much better player, but I try to view it from the perspective of who was the best with the resources they had?

 

Pele was treated 10 times worse than Messi by opposition. (yellow card or subs didnt even exist back then and just watch footage of the 1966 World Cup and you will see what I am talking about)

Pele was more dominant in his era than Messi is in his. 

Pele was more complete as a player.

Pele stopped a war. (Nigerian Civil War)

Pele won three World Cups. (although one was all due to Garrincha)

Pele scored over 1000 -official- goals (many of those games are considered friendlies nowadays but wasnt the same back then if you read about past football history. I mean those -friendlies- came against top European sides who Pele refused to sign with and who he absolutely dominated.)

Pele also managed to get sent off and put back on the field by the oppositions president as they told the referee to leave the arena for being unfair towards Pele for sending him off. (wont happen nowadays obviously, but just shows how big and important he was in his time)

 

I love Messi, I always discuss how Neymar is from a different planet, but how Messi is from an even further one.  So dont get me wrong, just dont get the wrong impression of Pele or Maradona for that matter.

 

Oh right i knew not reading the other 20+ pages would do me in 

 

For whats its worth i agree with what you have said, also btw my father is Spanish and Spain are the best in the world and i am inclined to support them so it has nothing to do with that.

 

Just the overall level of WC's since the 80s has been easily lower than club level IMO, i just think WC has far too much weight on someones career and how people remember it.

 

I used the Zidane and Ronaldo example for a reason, no one seems to remember the great work they did for thier clubs for years and just remember those handful of games at the WC.

 

For sure WC should be used in the discussion to decide if someone's career is all time great worthy but it shouldnt be a deciding factor.

 

Take Cannavaro for example, without 2010 WC no one would even talk about him and rightly so as thiers atleast half a dozen CB's that during his time that was better than him.

[Fenham Mag]

Pele stopped a war. (Nigerian Civil War)

 

Wtf has that got to do with football?

 

Messi cured AIDS.

[Guest je85]

234 gritos de Messi para la historia on that version of YouPorn that's not for porn.

[Flip]

Pele stopped a war. (Nigerian Civil War)

 

Wtf has that got to do with football?

 

Messi cured AIDS.

 

No he didnt and it only proves how big of a star he was. How good h was if he could stop a war for people to watch him play.

[Flip]

The must win WC is rubbish imo, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Puskas, Eusebio etc etc never won it why does Messi need to? he has already dominated the club scene for nearly half a decade and shows no sign of letting up.

 

Plus Club level is a higher level than WC now imo and has been since the 80s.

 

Also whats this rubbish about having to prove yourself outside your comfort zone? No one ever said Maldini had to leave Milan, Eusebio had to leave Benfica, Di Stefano had to leave Madrid etc etc.

 

He's not there yet as far as iam concerned but he can get there if he keeps dominating at club level the way he has been in the last few years.

 

I for one think its stupid how much hype is around winning a WC,a month long tournament that happens once every 4 years after playing around 50+ game season.

 

European Cup/CL > World Cup, Always has been and always will be.

 

First of all, well done for interpreting stuff to your own advantage. 2nd of all, World Cup is the biggest football tournament in the World, like it or not, just because your national team is f***ing s*** doesnt mean the rest of the World doest see it like that. With that said the Argentinian people wont consider Messi the best until he wins a World Cup.

 

Also with comfort zone I dont mean leaving Barcelona, absolutely not, if you had read my post prior to the one you quotes I have said over and over again that Messi should stay at Barcelona for ever. However, he needs to produce at international level with Argentina. You cannot say you are the best ever if you cant make a team consisting of the best players in the World a top national side. Argentinas national team is quite embarassing and Messi inability to adapt to different systems is a large part to it.

 

Also Di Stefano, Eusebio, Cruyff are not top three of all time because they never wonthe World Cup. Di Stefano won 4-5 straight Champions League titles yet never considered the best in his country (when will Messi do that?? ).

 

Please understand where I am coming from. If you put Messi onto the pitch with Pele, Messi would be a much better player, but I try to view it from the perspective of who was the best with the resources they had?

 

Pele was treated 10 times worse than Messi by opposition. (yellow card or subs didnt even exist back then and just watch footage of the 1966 World Cup and you will see what I am talking about)

Pele was more dominant in his era than Messi is in his. 

Pele was more complete as a player.

Pele stopped a war. (Nigerian Civil War)

Pele won three World Cups. (although one was all due to Garrincha)

Pele scored over 1000 -official- goals (many of those games are considered friendlies nowadays but wasnt the same back then if you read about past football history. I mean those -friendlies- came against top European sides who Pele refused to sign with and who he absolutely dominated.)

Pele also managed to get sent off and put back on the field by the oppositions president as they told the referee to leave the arena for being unfair towards Pele for sending him off. (wont happen nowadays obviously, but just shows how big and important he was in his time)

 

I love Messi, I always discuss how Neymar is from a different planet, but how Messi is from an even further one.  So dont get me wrong, just dont get the wrong impression of Pele or Maradona for that matter.

 

Oh right i knew not reading the other 20+ pages would do me in 

 

For whats its worth i agree with what you have said, also btw my father is Spanish and Spain are the best in the world and i am inclined to support them so it has nothing to do with that.

 

Just the overall level of WC's since the 80s has been easily lower than club level IMO, i just think WC has far too much weight on someones career and how people remember it.

 

I used the Zidane and Ronaldo example for a reason, no one seems to remember the great work they did for thier clubs for years and just remember those handful of games at the WC.

 

For sure WC should be used in the discussion to decide if someone's career is all time great worthy but it shouldnt be a deciding factor.

 

Take Cannavaro for example, without 2010 WC no one would even talk about him and rightly so as thiers atleast half a dozen CB's that during his time that was better than him.

 

Fair enough, you are obviously entitled to your own opinion and I agree with some. I do however feel that you need to make sure to write the right year Cannavaro won the WC Joking aside, I do agree with a lot but do you understand where I am coming from. Messi wont be considered the best in Argentina until he wins a World Cup and how can he be considered the best of all time but not even the best in his home country ?  And I for hope Messi keeps on playing at this level its amazing and I hope he doesnt do a Brazilian and stop all of vhe sudden.

 

It's phenomenal how far ahead of everyone else he is.

 

 

Dont agree with this part at all. How far ahead is he of CRonaldo, Iniesta, Xavi, Cesc, and dare I say RvP and Zlatan? He is not that far ahead, hes a better player but to say its phenomenal to see how far ahead he is is beyond craziness imo.

[mrmojorisin75]

Felipao91 the one thing you conveniently ignore for your own ends is the power shift that took place in football during the '90's making club competition by far the dominant force in the sport and european club football the most dominant within that

 

it says nothing of the inherent increase in pace, fitness and all round quality that continues as the years tick by....pele could "only beat what was in front of him" or whatever, same for maradona, but the game is almost unrecognisable now from what it was when both of those were in their pomp

 

who was the last person to win a WC "on their own" out of interest?  fat ronaldo probably and he was hardly at the spearhead of a team of dogshit cloggers was he?  i don't think it's possible for an individual to carry a team to a WC anymore, i don't think it'll happen again

[Neil]

I think he's way ahead in terms of what he does. No-one else has the overall package he has and destroy teams so regularly. No-one comes close.

 

Injuries aside, he will be greatest ever.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Did i write 2010?  iam sorry i assure you i meant 2006 

[Ketsbaia]

World Cup or not, watching Maradona & Pele play would never make me feel the way Messi does. Watching him is just pure joy.

[JH]

If he played against our defence atm, he'd struggle to score less than 54 in a game.

[gbandit]

World Cup or not, watching Maradona & Pele play would never make me feel the way Messi does. Watching him is just pure joy.

 

This, he's computer-generated in terms of what he's capable of doing but there's nothing even slightly robotic or boring about him. An unbelievable talent and I'm desperate to see him live one day

[Guest Haris Vuckic]

Pele was more dominant in his era than Messi is in his. 

 

Aye but some of the best teams in the world now were barely professional when Pele was playing, like Holland etc

 

Players literally come from all around the world to play in the top leagues now.

[Dokko]

His top 100 goals DVD should be pretty fantastic viewing. Reckon the 101-200 would be canny as well.

[HawK]

Topics like this always amuse me when I dip in to read, it's like some people feel the urge to try to convince those that cannot be swayed. Personally, I am well informed on the subject past and present, and it's my opinion that he is the best footballer in the world right now, and almost up there with Pelé - you simply cannot refute the fact that in nowadays football he is protected to such a huge degree, and the method of his style of play is tailored to that protection. I'm not saying he couldn't cope back in Pelé's era, he'd be a fantastic player still, as is evidenced by the numerous youtube videos of Messi refusing to fall over when fouled and just continuing with play, but it was a different level of physicality in the 60's.

 

Perhaps people just like to argue against the established opinion when a new idea comes along, a healthy rebellion-fueled debate as it were. I'd like to see Messi truely carry a team that he doesn't play regularly for - Maradona with Napoli and Agentina for example - rather than win a WC, which can be down to so many more factors that just one person's outstanding ability.

[timeEd32]

The must win WC is rubbish imo, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Puskas, Eusebio etc etc never won it why does Messi need to? he has already dominated the club scene for nearly half a decade and shows no sign of letting up.

 

Plus Club level is a higher level than WC now imo and has been since the 80s.

 

Also whats this rubbish about having to prove yourself outside your comfort zone? No one ever said Maldini had to leave Milan, Eusebio had to leave Benfica, Di Stefano had to leave Madrid etc etc.

 

He's not there yet as far as iam concerned but he can get there if he keeps dominating at club level the way he has been in the last few years.

 

I for one think its stupid how much hype is around winning a WC,a month long tournament that happens once every 4 years after playing around 50+ game season.

 

European Cup/CL > World Cup, Always has been and always will be.

 

First of all, well done for interpreting stuff to your own advantage. 2nd of all, World Cup is the biggest football tournament in the World, like it or not, just because your national team is f***ing s*** doesnt mean the rest of the World doest see it like that. With that said the Argentinian people wont consider Messi the best until he wins a World Cup.

 

Also with comfort zone I dont mean leaving Barcelona, absolutely not, if you had read my post prior to the one you quotes I have said over and over again that Messi should stay at Barcelona for ever. However, he needs to produce at international level with Argentina. You cannot say you are the best ever if you cant make a team consisting of the best players in the World a top national side. Argentinas national team is quite embarassing and Messi inability to adapt to different systems is a large part to it.

 

Also Di Stefano, Eusebio, Cruyff are not top three of all time because they never wonthe World Cup. Di Stefano won 4-5 straight Champions League titles yet never considered the best in his country (when will Messi do that?? ).

 

Please understand where I am coming from. If you put Messi onto the pitch with Pele, Messi would be a much better player, but I try to view it from the perspective of who was the best with the resources they had?

 

Pele was treated 10 times worse than Messi by opposition. (yellow card or subs didnt even exist back then and just watch footage of the 1966 World Cup and you will see what I am talking about)

Pele was more dominant in his era than Messi is in his. 

Pele was more complete as a player.

Pele stopped a war. (Nigerian Civil War)

Pele won three World Cups. (although one was all due to Garrincha)

Pele scored over 1000 -official- goals (many of those games are considered friendlies nowadays but wasnt the same back then if you read about past football history. I mean those -friendlies- came against top European sides who Pele refused to sign with and who he absolutely dominated.)

Pele also managed to get sent off and put back on the field by the oppositions president as they told the referee to leave the arena for being unfair towards Pele for sending him off. (wont happen nowadays obviously, but just shows how big and important he was in his time)

 

I love Messi, I always discuss how Neymar is from a different planet, but how Messi is from an even further one.  So dont get me wrong, just dont get the wrong impression of Pele or Maradona for that matter.

 

That settles it then.

 

Pele stopped a war. (Nigerian Civil War)

 

So?

 

Pele also managed to get sent off and put back on the field by the oppositions president as they told the referee to leave the arena for being unfair towards Pele for sending him off. (wont happen nowadays obviously, but just shows how big and important he was in his time)

 

So?

 

By the way, I have no idea which one is/was better as I never really saw Pele play so I'm not arguing one way or another. I do agree with those that recognize the diminishing importance of the World Cup (as far as individual accomplishments go). What Messi does on a weekly basis in a top-2 league in the world and in the CL is far more impressive to me. 

 

[Flip]

timeEd

 

What you dont seem to grasp is that football has developed in a way to help players more. Protection from referee, balls that is harder for the goalies to defend, better pitches, shoes that are made for a player to maximize and optimize his ability on the pitch.

 

If Pele and Messi were born at the same time, I think for sure Pele would be the better player based on pure talent, on pure domination and sheer intelligence on the pitch (man is a moron outside of it). You have to compare every era, and Pele was much further ahead of his competition than Messi is of his. 

 

Topics like this always amuse me when I dip in to read, it's like some people feel the urge to try to convince those that cannot be swayed. Personally, I am well informed on the subject past and present, and it's my opinion that he is the best footballer in the world right now, and almost up there with Pelé - you simply cannot refute the fact that in nowadays football he is protected to such a huge degree, and the method of his style of play is tailored to that protection. I'm not saying he couldn't cope back in Pelé's era, he'd be a fantastic player still, as is evidenced by the numerous youtube videos of Messi refusing to fall over when fouled and just continuing with play, but it was a different level of physicality in the 60's.

 

Perhaps people just like to argue against the established opinion when a new idea comes along, a healthy rebellion-fueled debate as it were. I'd like to see Messi truely carry a team that he doesn't play regularly for - Maradona with Napoli and Agentina for example - rather than win a WC, which can be down to so many more factors that just one person's outstanding ability.

 

He wont leave Barcelona so he has to carry Argentina, which he wont, but he could at least try and make them a decent team.

 

If he played against our defence atm, he'd struggle to score less than 54 in a game.