Football's greatest - where does Lionel Messi rank?

[The College Dropout]

i did say that, but that's not what TCD was even referring to brett...i'll rephrase for then; "you get the feeling if the goals dry up he'll have much less of an impact overall"...i certainly do, i do not feel this with messi whatsover

 

better?  f***ing hate having to spell things out like that, jesus, what did you think i meant that if he had a bad scoring run that'd be ronaldo on the scrapheap and sacked?  make the leap man

 

Well, not really better, it's still a load of horse cack what you're saying. Take someone’s goals away from them and they'll have less impact, hardly rocket science that. However say they did both stop scoring, they both would still be highly effective in their teams and still outstanding players because their attributes aren't just tailor made to just score goals, they have many other aspects to their game.

 

I think it's a fair comment to say that he does far less than Messi does. Messi scores more (except beginning of this season but I've already posted that they're actually not even far off) and Messi contributes more to general play in terms of creating chances, holding on to the ball. Just for the sake of it, what does Ronaldo do that he's great at except the obvious ones? Does he press high up the pitch constantly? Does he provide cover to Marcelo/Coentrao? Does he win ball back? Does he create a lot of chances out of nothing for his teammates?

 

I'm asking because so many seem to watch him week in week out.

 

The things you are describing are tactical and system based rather than individual attributes. You're basically asking "does Cronaldo play for Barcelona? Or does he play for a team that prefers the counter?"

 

And even then Messi does the least pressing for Barcelona of any player. He gets to play as a striker so there's nobody to cover for. The Barcelona system is about winning the ball high up the pitch, it's not for Madrid.

 

The creativity/selfish thing is over-stated. Messi had marginally more assists last season. And in the last few years most of the other Barcelona strikers have been slightly below par as Messi racks up 50 goals.

[BrettNUFC]

Fair enough, although I've seen Messi take on, two or three and then hit it from 25 yards so yes it does happen. I think it would be good for everyone involved that Ronaldo wins this, I just don't buy this crap that he's underrated if it he doesn't or that FIFA is bought or that it's a popularity contest.

 

I enjoy seeing Ronaldo for the fact that he is such a direct player, you always know where he is going when he has the ball, which sometimes is a big problem when it comes to bigger games against better teams.

 

I said 'rarely' Obviously he's done it and will do it but it's not like Ronaldo where like you say how direct it is, he picks it up in that space and he's thinking about shooting, not the same with Messi and Barca.

[The College Dropout]

Felipao's being very arrogant. We get to see Messi & Ronaldo for 90 minutes more than any other players that don't play for Newcastle if you have Sky.

[Nobody]

Felipao's being very arrogant. We get to see Messi & Ronaldo for 90 minutes more than any other players that don't play for Newcastle if you have Sky.

And I'm sure you spend every other Saturday night at home watching Real Madrid and Barcelona.

[The College Dropout]

Felipao's being very arrogant. We get to see Messi & Ronaldo for 90 minutes more than any other players that don't play for Newcastle if you have Sky.

And I'm sure you spend every other Saturday night at home watching Real Madrid and Barcelona.

 

It's on from Friday/Sunday nights. Midweek cup games have League 2 as their rival. It's often repeated. Revista likewise which I have Sky+. If you have full control of your Sky box you'll watch a fair bit of Madrid/Barcelona and increasingly Atletico.

 

La Liga is not an unknown quantity. To me at least. Especially Madrid/Barca who are on every. single. week. I personally watch as much of them as Liverpool or Spurs. And I wouldn't have anyone condescend me on the ability of Luis Suarez either.

[Mr. Snrub]

I'm just enjoying watching the 2 greatest players to have ever played the game.

 

Messi is better, but it's definitely closer than it was 6 months ago.

[Froggy]

So angry reading so many opinions in this thread. I don't think I could handle joining the discussion. Some people are still criminally underrating Cristiano Ronaldo. It's baffling.

 

Please enlighten us, I don't think anyone on here has clled CRonaldo anything less than the 2nd best footballer in the world, so please tell me how people are criminally underrating him?

 

What annoys me is the fact that people like you, the CRonaldo fan boys, are starting to say he MUST win it after he scored 4 goals in 2 games against Sweden and are putting him in the top echelon with the likes of Pele (who as a 21 year old scored 5 against Benfica over two legs in the intercontinental cup which was considered the biggest club game in the world). 4 GOALS AGAINST MIKAEL ANTONSSON AND PER NILSSON, I'm pretty sure Sweden would've gone through if it wasn't for those two also tbf.

 

You've already apologised for the fanboys comment (even though I'm obviously a huge admirer of Ronaldo) so fair enough, but even still, many of us were saying that Ronaldo should win long before his goals against Sweden. Neil in particular had money on him months ago if I'm not mistaken. Even still, taking the feat of scoring 4 goals in a two legged World Cup qualifier away from someone, regardless of the opposition, is stupid.

 

I guess the thing that annoyed me the most is the argument that he's not that much better than Ribery. That's just mental in my opinion. Ribery has obviously had a fantastic year, but he's not anywhere near Ronaldo in terms of footballing ability. And yes, I've seen plenty of Ribery to have that opinion.

 

Another small thing that annoyed me was people saying Ronaldo is far more selfish than Messi, and I really don't think that's the case. Maybe five years ago. Barcelona move the ball about a lot in front of defences and Messi is involved in that, but when the time comes to assault the goal, more often that not Messi picks the ball up and goes for it. Of course he doesn't shoot from range as much as Ronaldo does, and that's because he's nowhere near as good at doing so.

 

There was also a post from someone in here that he doesn't do it in the big games? Really? Still? That's so ridiculous. Off the top of my head this year he's scored twice against Barcelona, scored against Dortmund (I don't think the result can be held against him. The German sides were incredible last season), he basically knocked us out with two goals against us in the CL as well. He's dominating the CL this year too.

 

I almost wish Ronaldo didn't bulk up so much because he's got this athletic tag now as if he's just a direct beast with no technical ability anymore. Have people forgotten how good he was on the wing with us for a start or how many goals he actually created? Do people think if the goals dry up he's just going to be a muscley, useless forward? He'll still be a massive influence to any team he plays for.

 

[Mole_Toonfan]

I wonder what people would say if Barcelona were trophyless last season, Argentina needed a play off against the Asian equivalent of Sweden and currently 3rd in La Liga even if Messi scored loads...

 

Because that is Ronaldo's year.... he hasn't driven his team to any kind of success oh and fyi Moutinho deserves just as much credit for beating Sweden as those passes basically laid the goals on a plate for Ronaldo.

 

The criteria has gone from best player to best scorer....if Ronaldo does win it he'll be the first person in history to not win trophies or/and break records.

 

Might as well rename it to Whoscored.com D'or.

[ponsaelius]

Good point by Mole tbf, Messi has been brilliant in leading Argentina to top of the most competitive qualifying section in the world at ease but has been ignored because it wasn't as flashy as fucking up in shite group and then saving the side in the last chance saloon.

[Geordie Ahmed]

I wonder what people would say if Barcelona were trophyless last season, Argentina needed a play off against the Asian equivalent of Sweden and currently 3rd in La Liga even if Messi scored loads...

 

Because that is Ronaldo's year.... he hasn't driven his team to any kind of success oh and fyi Moutinho deserves just as much credit for beating Sweden as those passes basically laid the goals on a plate for Ronaldo.

 

The criteria has gone from best player to best scorer....if Ronaldo does win it he'll be the first person in history to not win trophies or/and break records.

 

Might as well rename it to Whoscored.com D'or.

 

Wasn't aware of that. So the previous winners have at least won something in the year/season they got the award?

[Neil]

People saying Ronaldo doesn't track back as a reason for why Ronaldo shouldn't win. That'll be comparing him to the same Messi who spends big chunks of games barely moving. I'm not criticising it as a tactic, but at best it's a weak comparative criticism of Ronaldo, if not non-existent. Let's forget about this notion that Messi does big amounts of donkey work while Ronaldo does nowt to help. It's simply untrue.

 

Each to their own. I've seen no convincing argument to suggest it shouldn't be Ronaldo this year.

 

That doesn't mean I think Ronaldo is an overall better player than Messi, because he isn't, although the gap is far closer than it was this time last year. For me, this year, Ronaldo has hit such a level of form that it has to be him.

 

We're damn lucky to see these two at their prime.

[alpal78]

I wonder what people would say if Barcelona were trophyless last season, Argentina needed a play off against the Asian equivalent of Sweden and currently 3rd in La Liga even if Messi scored loads...

 

Because that is Ronaldo's year.... he hasn't driven his team to any kind of success oh and fyi Moutinho deserves just as much credit for beating Sweden as those passes basically laid the goals on a plate for Ronaldo.

 

The criteria has gone from best player to best scorer....if Ronaldo does win it he'll be the first person in history to not win trophies or/and break records.

 

Might as well rename it to Whoscored.com D'or.

 

Because scoring goals (especially the amount that Ronaldo has) have nothing to do with being a good player? Let's not even go into his assists. How silly.

 

You've also discredited your arguments with the nonsensical "goals on a plate" comment. If anyone did not watch the goals, based on your description, they've thought the goals were all tap ins. Far from it! The passes were excellent of course but all the goals were outside the box and Ronaldo showed good ball control, pace and scored with well placed shots. The first was a semi chip over the keeper, the second was a shot from an even tighter angle (even Ibra applauded the goal ffs) and the third was shot high into the net after dribbling past the keeper. If you refer to these goals as "on a plate", then you might as well just stop posting on Ronaldo because you clearly can't be objective at all.

[Guest n4e]

Felipao's being very arrogant. We get to see Messi & Ronaldo for 90 minutes more than any other players that don't play for Newcastle if you have Sky.

 

Why even respond to him man? Never posts anything that isn't childish or biased nonsense.

[alexf]

Felipao you seem to have quite a dislike for Ronaldo?

 

All I think is that Messi has been just that bit better than Ronaldo for many years now but to be fair to Ronaldo he hasn't just given up cus he comes 2nd every year, he has kept going and when you compare there goal records, there's not much between them at all. But Messi just has that little something extra.

Plus, many may not agree but I would argue he has had a better players to play with than Ronaldo in my opinion. Messi has grown up building a telepathic understanding with the likes of Iniesta and Xavi. Whereas Real chop and change their team a lot and I think people like Benzema, Di Maria and to a lesser extent Ozil are all a bit inconsistent.

 

So I think as Messi has had a couple of issues over the last year, meaning he's not quite been at his absolute best, like in some of the important champions league games last year. I think that just opens the door for Ronaldo who happens to be in incredible form which falls nicely in time with the Ballon d'Or awards.

That's why I think the press and everybody have started talking about it more, plus this idea that Ribery was favourite to be named the "best player in the world" just doesn't sit right.

 

[Flip]

So angry reading so many opinions in this thread. I don't think I could handle joining the discussion. Some people are still criminally underrating Cristiano Ronaldo. It's baffling.

 

Please enlighten us, I don't think anyone on here has clled CRonaldo anything less than the 2nd best footballer in the world, so please tell me how people are criminally underrating him?

 

What annoys me is the fact that people like you, the CRonaldo fan boys, are starting to say he MUST win it after he scored 4 goals in 2 games against Sweden and are putting him in the top echelon with the likes of Pele (who as a 21 year old scored 5 against Benfica over two legs in the intercontinental cup which was considered the biggest club game in the world). 4 GOALS AGAINST MIKAEL ANTONSSON AND PER NILSSON, I'm pretty sure Sweden would've gone through if it wasn't for those two also tbf.

 

You've already apologised for the fanboys comment (even though I'm obviously a huge admirer of Ronaldo) so fair enough, but even still, many of us were saying that Ronaldo should win long before his goals against Sweden. Neil in particular had money on him months ago if I'm not mistaken. Even still, taking the feat of scoring 4 goals in a two legged World Cup qualifier away from someone, regardless of the opposition, is stupid.

 

I guess the thing that annoyed me the most is the argument that he's not that much better than Ribery. That's just mental in my opinion. Ribery has obviously had a fantastic year, but he's not anywhere near Ronaldo in terms of footballing ability. And yes, I've seen plenty of Ribery to have that opinion.

 

I understand where you're coming from, but like I said both fulfil completely different roles. If you tell me a player like Lahm isn't even close to Ronaldo's ability I'll still say it's a matter of different roles they fulfil. A goalscorer will always be considered better then the one who doesn't so in this case Ronaldo will always be considered better, I just find it hard to believe that someone who has been the best player for the most dominant club in the world this season is that far off someone who hasn't won anything and whose team isn't that much worse on paper. Wasn't Mourinho the best manager according to plenty in here? Having been to Allianz Arena I've seen the work Ribery does off ball while a player like Robben hugs the line and doesn't track back.

 

Another small thing that annoyed me was people saying Ronaldo is far more selfish than Messi, and I really don't think that's the case. Maybe five years ago. Barcelona move the ball about a lot in front of defences and Messi is involved in that, but when the time comes to assault the goal, more often that not Messi picks the ball up and goes for it. Of course he doesn't shoot from range as much as Ronaldo does, and that's because he's nowhere near as good at doing so.

 

I agree, it has nothing to do with selfishness since Messi has been extremely selfish the last couple of seasons, you'll find I've criticized this part of his game plenty on here. That still doesn't take away the fact that he creates far more for his team than Ronaldo does.

 

There was also a post from someone in here that he doesn't do it in the big games? Really? Still? That's so ridiculous. Off the top of my head this year he's scored twice against Barcelona, scored against Dortmund (I don't think the result can be held against him. The German sides were incredible last season), he basically knocked us out with two goals against us in the CL as well. He's dominating the CL this year too.

 

TBF to Mole, I get his point because in big games you almost always know what you are going to get from Messi, but with Ronaldo you never know. Ronaldo has obviously done it multiple times in big games, I think he's scored three against Juve in the CL this season, it's just his inconsistency at those games.

 

I almost wish Ronaldo didn't bulk up so much because he's got this athletic tag now as if he's just a direct beast with no technical ability anymore. Have people forgotten how good he was on the wing with us for a start or how many goals he actually created? Do people think if the goals dry up he's just going to be a muscley, useless forward? He'll still be a massive influence to any team he plays for.

 

I don't think anyone would really see him has a muscley, useless forward, but it's quite obvious that athleticism is a big part of the why he is the player he is, at the same time he obviously has a world class ability otherwise he'd be just another Jozy Altidore. Again I'm not debating the excellency of Ronaldo, I'm just doubting whether he should be a sure-thing as the best player in the world. I've also said that it wouldn't surprise me if he won it as it has been as close as ever.

 

 

Felipao's being very arrogant. We get to see Messi & Ronaldo for 90 minutes more than any other players that don't play for Newcastle if you have Sky.

 

Why even respond to him man? Never posts anything that isn't childish or biased nonsense.

 

Quoting TCD.

 

Felipao you seem to have quite a dislike for Ronaldo?

 

All I think is that Messi has been just that bit better than Ronaldo for many years now but to be fair to Ronaldo he hasn't just given up cus he comes 2nd every year, he has kept going and when you compare there goal records, there's not much between them at all. But Messi just has that little something extra.

Plus, many may not agree but I would argue he has had a better players to play with than Ronaldo in my opinion. Messi has grown up building a telepathic understanding with the likes of Iniesta and Xavi. Whereas Real chop and change their team a lot and I think people like Benzema, Di Maria and to a lesser extent Ozil are all a bit inconsistent.

 

So I think as Messi has had a couple of issues over the last year, meaning he's not quite been at his absolute best, like in some of the important champions league games last year. I think that just opens the door for Ronaldo who happens to be in incredible form which falls nicely in time with the Ballon d'Or awards.

That's why I think the press and everybody have started talking about it more, plus this idea that Ribery was favourite to be named the "best player in the world" just doesn't sit right.

 

 

Nope, have no problem with Ronaldo, matter of fact is I've understood and agreed with that sentiment of yours that if Ronaldo should win it, it should probably be this time around since it's closer than it's ever been before. I've also not said that Ribery should win it, I've said it all depends on the criteria. I think Ronaldo is a better footballer than everyone in the world except Messi, but that doesn't take away the fact that some are trying to compare Ronaldo and Ribery as green sour apple and red sweet apple. In the end it's an individual award, so for me Ronaldo is ahead of Ribery 10x out of 10. He's still not THAT much better than Ribery, maybe at what he does, but I do wonder who would fare better if they changed roles.

 

People saying Ronaldo doesn't track back as a reason for why Ronaldo shouldn't win. That'll be comparing him to the same Messi who spends big chunks of games barely moving. I'm not criticising it as a tactic, but at best it's a weak comparative criticism of Ronaldo, if not non-existent. Let's forget about this notion that Messi does big amounts of donkey work while Ronaldo does nowt to help. It's simply untrue.

 

You'll find that is more in line with the arguments about Ribery and the roles they have in their respective teams. If anything I think Messi probably does less defensively than Ronaldo especially since his team always has the ball.

 

Each to their own. I've seen no convincing argument to suggest it shouldn't be Ronaldo this year.

 

This is the thing I've been talking about and responding too, no convincing argument that Ronaldo shouldn't win it. Except the fact that Messi won something, scored more, is top of the league and has played less than Ronaldo.

 

That doesn't mean I think Ronaldo is an overall better player than Messi, because he isn't, although the gap is far closer than it was this time last year. For me, this year, Ronaldo has hit such a level of form that it has to be him.

 

We're damn lucky to see these two at their prime.

 

Agreed

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Not relevant I know, and I've got no right to say this, but this has got to be the least interesting thread on this forum. It's so blah.

[Flip]

Let's just get some statistics going also for this Ronaldo having a great season and Messi a not so good one:

 

Cristiano v Lionel

 

La Liga: 30matches 36goals 13assists

La Liga: 24m 28goals 12assists

Copa del Rey: 6matches 6goals 2 assists

Copa del Rey: 4matches 2goals 1 assist

CL: 10matches 14goals 2 assists

CL: 8matches 11goals

 

National team non-friendlies: 6m 7goals (4 against Sweden and 3 against Northern Ireland)

National team non-friendlies: 5m 3 goals (off the bench in two games)

National team friendlies: 3matches 3goals (only 45minutes to score against Croatia, and another against Ecuador)

National team friendlies: 2matches 3goals 2 assists (hattrick and assist against Guatemala, and assists against Sweden) 

 

In total:

 

55matches 66goals 17assists (total minutes: 4630minutes)

43matches 46goals 15 assists(total minutes: 3477minutes)

 

Goals per minute: 70min

Goals per minute: 75min

 

Assist per minute: 272minutes

Assist per minute: 231minutes

 

As we can see, no surprises here as Ronaldo has a higher minutes per goals than Messi. What we can see here is that the numbers are extremely close and probably closer than ever. So in what way exactly is there no argument for Messi to win it when you add to the fact that he's won a league this year and is sitting top of the league and came as far as Ronaldo's team in the Champions League as well as took his national side easy into the 2014 World Cup. Like said before this is probably the closest year between both so no one should complain if either wins, but if that isn't proof of that Messi is as good as Ronaldo this year then I don't know what is.

[Beren]

Lionel Richie is brilliant tbh.

[Flip]

Not relevant I know, and I've got no right to say this, but this has got to be the least interesting thread on this forum. It's so blah.

 

 

The Pardew one that you frequent is so much better

[mrmojorisin75]

ronaldo will win it now 'cause he's hit form at the right time, there's traction for him in the press, and messi is perceived to be having a dip in form due to injury problems

 

nowt else needs saying on the matter tbh

[Alberto2005]

Ronaldo should win it this year. Messi is better. Simples.

[Disco]

Wonder where Thomas Müller will end up? He's had an outrageous year both domestically and internationally but is massively unheralded.

[Beren]

Wonder where Thomas Müller will end up? He's had an outrageous year both domestically and internationally but is massively unheralded.

 

I was thinking that. If an individual's credentials are assessed predominantly upon what they have inspired their team to achieve, it limits the pool of choice to Bayern players really, doesn't it? And if I was poaching from Bayern Munich, Ribery would not be in my top three picks I don't think.

[Flip]

Wonder where Thomas Müller will end up? He's had an outrageous year both domestically and internationally but is massively unheralded.

 

I was thinking that. If an individual's credentials are assessed predominantly upon what they have inspired their team to achieve, it limits the pool of choice to Bayern players really, doesn't it? And if I was poaching from Bayern Munich, Ribery would not be in my top three picks I don't think.

 

I prefer Schweinsteiger over the others then, except Ribery obviously, because for me he's really the best player in that team.

[Disco]

Wonder where Thomas Müller will end up? He's had an outrageous year both domestically and internationally but is massively unheralded.

 

I was thinking that. If an individual's credentials are assessed predominantly upon what they have inspired their team to achieve, it limits the pool of choice to Bayern players really, doesn't it? And if I was poaching from Bayern Munich, Ribery would not be in my top three picks I don't think.

 

Yup and it would be Müller, Lahm, then Ribery for me but I don't watch the Bundesliga.