Mr Logic Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 This is the optimistic thread right? But we still have that crazy owner, Ashley. No telling if he wants to succeed, make money, survive, sell.. everyone has their own ideas on that one. Certainly 4 or 5 players of the right calibre and we should/could be pushing for the European places next season, our biggest problem has been squad depth. Our 1st eleven on paper aren't a million miles away as it is, so a few extra in should provide that boost. Provided we're only losing dross like Loven - if we lose decent players, well, we'll not get anywhere and Ashley will become the most hated owner in the history of football as he'll be perceived as continually shafting us. And that has to be a concern, selling every time someone proves good and doubles/triples there value. See quite a few have Nolan in the core, personally I'd be pretty disappointed if Nolan is a nailed on starter for next season. Goals aside he adds little to midfield duties. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I'd be happy having him starting next season, but i do think there's an opportunity to sign a mint winger who, along with HBA and a new striker, can transform the team. With the way Barton and Jonas have finished the season, if only one of them could remain in the side come August, Jonas deserves it on merit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Other than avoiding relegation, what is there to play for the in the league? The Champion's League is practically a closed shop, and the Europa League is a dire, heavily devalued competition IMO. Christ, I wish could have the UEFA Cup of old back, with good teams, a knockout format and non of this Champs League dropout bullsh*t. Only then I could excited at the realistic prospect of competing for 5-8th. An interesting perspective, and one which has gone ignored in this thread, sadly. Would be interested to know what other people think of this, perhaps worth discussing in another thread? I do think that you're right about the top few spaces becoming a closed shop, that seems pretty universally accepted. What to do about it though? What you're pointing up are structural concerns about how the game is now...and the odds do seem stacked up against anyone but the top 5/6 teams, but are you saying there's no point even having a go? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Other than avoiding relegation, what is there to play for the in the league? The Champion's League is practically a closed shop, and the Europa League is a dire, heavily devalued competition IMO. Christ, I wish could have the UEFA Cup of old back, with good teams, a knockout format and non of this Champs League dropout bullsh*t. Only then I could excited at the realistic prospect of competing for 5-8th. This, tbf, probably even more so next year than this. Man City's money has started to tell, Liverpool are rumoured to be spunking a huge wad this summer and Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal are not about to get any worse. I hate that I'm even considering the possibility that missing out on the Europa would be a bonus this year. The UEFA used to be a really tough challenge and some years rivalled the European Cup for difficulty, but now UEFA have utterly, utterly devalued it. The main obstacle I can see you having next year is the fact that very few of the clubs challenging for 5th-8th next year will have to deal with Europe. In past years, clubs like Villa and Spurs have struggled to keep up a challenge in Europe and the League, and it's put a great deal of pressure on their squads. That (probably) won't be the case next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Other than avoiding relegation, what is there to play for the in the league? The Champion's League is practically a closed shop, and the Europa League is a dire, heavily devalued competition IMO. Christ, I wish could have the UEFA Cup of old back, with good teams, a knockout format and non of this Champs League dropout bullsh*t. Only then I could excited at the realistic prospect of competing for 5-8th. An interesting perspective, and one which has gone ignored in this thread, sadly. Would be interested to know what other people think of this, perhaps worth discussing in another thread? I do think that you're right about the top few spaces becoming a closed shop, that seems pretty universally accepted. What to do about it though? What you're pointing up are structural concerns about how the game is now...and the odds do seem stacked up against anyone but the top 5/6 teams, but are you saying there's no point even having a go? It would just be nice to have an attractive team that won loads of matches, without any sort of looking over your shoulder to worry about. Regardless of how you feel about the prospect of the Europa League, winning on Saturday is what makes me happy for the week, and to do that on a regular basis with eleven great players is what's fundamental imo. But even then... i enjoy being in Europe regardless, so i think it's a worthy target. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Other than avoiding relegation, what is there to play for the in the league? The Champion's League is practically a closed shop, and the Europa League is a dire, heavily devalued competition IMO. Christ, I wish could have the UEFA Cup of old back, with good teams, a knockout format and non of this Champs League dropout bullsh*t. Only then I could excited at the realistic prospect of competing for 5-8th. An interesting perspective, and one which has gone ignored in this thread, sadly. Would be interested to know what other people think of this, perhaps worth discussing in another thread? I do think that you're right about the top few spaces becoming a closed shop, that seems pretty universally accepted. What to do about it though? What you're pointing up are structural concerns about how the game is now...and the odds do seem stacked up against anyone but the top 5/6 teams, but are you saying there's no point even having a go? The utterly depressing problem is that we (Spurs) did have a go, built a squad from scratch over 5 or 6 years and challenged the Top 4 two or three times. Man U were consistently there along with Chelsea and Arsenal, but you could see the cracks appearing at Liverpool and it looked like Roman was getting bored. Now we're all in an even worse position. Man U still cruising, Liverpool sorting their life out (and getting bailed out by some Americans based pretty much on their name), Roman back to massive spending and Man City winning the lottery. Even Arsenal, while faltering, are still in third and only need a couple of blatantly obvious purchases to sort themselves out. We're all desperately hoping that the financial fair play regulations will rein them all in, but I'm not holding my breath. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Coloccini, Enrique, Barton, Tiote, Ben Arfa; these are quality players. Then we have the likes of Harper, Nolan, Gutierrez, Krul, Taylor, Williamson and Simpson who have proven they can live with this level, and some promising youngsters. Maybe I'm being deluded/unrealistic but with the Carroll money there's no reason we should be selling any of the above. Dump the shite, build around that lot and we can really push on. No excuses this summer. why have you included Enrique when you know he's already gone? Seems like you're already setting yourself up for a fall when he moves in July. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Coloccini, Enrique, Barton, Tiote, Ben Arfa; these are quality players. Then we have the likes of Harper, Nolan, Gutierrez, Krul, Taylor, Williamson and Simpson who have proven they can live with this level, and some promising youngsters. Maybe I'm being deluded/unrealistic but with the Carroll money there's no reason we should be selling any of the above. Dump the shite, build around that lot and we can really push on. No excuses this summer. why have you included Enrique when you know he's already gone? Seems like you're already setting yourself up for a fall when he moves in July. We could easily make Enrique play out his final year here. Liverpool probably won't offer enough money to make it worth our while selling IMO. Unless we get the right price we should keep him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Coloccini, Enrique, Barton, Tiote, Ben Arfa; these are quality players. Then we have the likes of Harper, Nolan, Gutierrez, Krul, Taylor, Williamson and Simpson who have proven they can live with this level, and some promising youngsters. Maybe I'm being deluded/unrealistic but with the Carroll money there's no reason we should be selling any of the above. Dump the shite, build around that lot and we can really push on. No excuses this summer. This would require some semblance of sense and nous though. Unfortunately Newcastle United lacks badly in both of these attributes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 We will never become a top 6 side again if we keep selling players though. Carroll was outrageous money yes, but if we go into the summer and allow the likes of Enrique to leave then we are just making ourselves weaker. One of the main reasons Spurs have done well is that they held on to their best players when they came good. They didnt just finish 5th or 4th and sell their players to the bigger teams, im not sure we would be in the same boat. For example, if we finish 7th next season and Ben Arfa plays unreal, scores a few goals and makes a name for himself, he'll be off as soon as theres a big bid in for him. They sold carrick and berbatov for big money, but it was invested back in to the team. Come this summer they'll sell at least Bale, and will invest that money as well. We've had this discussion before. We didn't really choose to sell Berbatov or Carrick to develop the squad, they both wanted to move and so we just managed to screw a lot of money out of Man U for them. We did re-invest that money though, and you need to re-invest at least some of the Carroll money in new players, as well as boosting Tiote's contract etc. The point is that selling our best players to build the squad was never a matter of policy. You could argue that in both cases we only offloaded one marquee player. If you sell Enrique, that's two that you've sold in one season, which makes life tough. I do think that losing a left-back is less problematic though, however good that player is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 An exciting squad of all ages, with plenty of potential. Handled well, we could be brilliant but I know I don't trust the people in charge. This summer really could go either way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Totally agree we have the core of a good side, fingers crossed we can add the right players in the summer. If we could hold onto Enrique it would be a major boost as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 We need a commanding goalkeeper, an attacking right-back, a defensive midfielder and two strikers. Having a defensive midfielder who justs sits and protects would allow Tiote who is far more than a defensive midfielder the freedom to run midfield. I agree with Dave though we have the nucleaus of a decent side. We badly need depth though. However I'd rather we not full our squad with filly type players. Bring in players if we can to play in the first team and therefore make good players like Nolan into squad players rather than first-teamers. That's the way to build squad depth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I wouldn't buy a goalkeeper - I know Krul doesn't look quite ready but he'll get there soon, and we have Forster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 A Keeper is the least of our worries imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nguyen Van Falk Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Definitely agree with HTT about Tiote, he's far too good with the ball at his feet to be stuck in a DM position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomlkier Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I wouldn't buy a goalkeeper - I know Krul doesn't look quite ready but he'll get there soon, and we have Forster. Guillermo Ochoa on a free should be a serious consideration. Young but very experienced. He's been linked with PSG and Olympiacos. Plus he has Coloccini-esque hair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Sell the core /Ashley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Tiote's far too good with the ball at his feet to be stuck in DM? What, would you rather someone who was rubbish with the ball at his feet protyect the back 4, break up play and start a passing move? Tiote stays in DM for me, and we get another good player with the ball at his feet to go alongside him, though I'm looking forward to seeing Gosling actually play, he could be a good player, no one knows yet though. We also don't need a RB yet, we may have to look for a first choice LB yet, let alone improving another position which is actually improving all the time with Simpson. 2 strikers is a must for me, and 2 good ones. 1 expensive, 1 a good buy. Another winger as well. And I'd rather a new CB than a RB. Samba would be great, probably unrealistic. Dann would be a good shout. Be good if Brum got relegated actually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Coloccini, Enrique, Barton, Tiote, Ben Arfa; these are quality players. Then we have the likes of Harper, Nolan, Gutierrez, Krul, Taylor, Williamson and Simpson who have proven they can live with this level, and some promising youngsters. Maybe I'm being deluded/unrealistic but with the Carroll money there's no reason we should be selling any of the above. Dump the shite, build around that lot and we can really push on. No excuses this summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Definitely agree with HTT about Tiote, he's far too good with the ball at his feet to be stuck in a DM position. News to me, like. He's nothing special at all with the ball at his feet. His athleticism allows him to go forward well, but that's about the extent of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Everything hinges on whether or not this will be a summer of building, or rebuilding. If we lose Enrique, Barton, or even both then we will go backwards. Keep them and add players who improve the first team and we're going places. We have the core of a strong team, the question is will they stay with us? If they do, it's about buying quality first team players, relegating the weaker first teamers to the bench/competition for places, and building our squad size that way, while moving on the dead wood players like Smith and Ryan Taylor if we can. It's better to build the squad this way than to sign intended backup players such as James Perch or promoting kids who aren't ready which is the cheap way to go about it. We have the money to build the squad properly now but the key questions are will that money be spent and can we hang onto our stars. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Definitely agree with HTT about Tiote, he's far too good with the ball at his feet to be stuck in a DM position. News to me, like. He's nothing special at all with the ball at his feet. His athleticism allows him to go forward well, but that's about the extent of it. You think tiote is noting special at all with the ball at his feet? Hmmm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 If we want to convince our best players to stay here we need to become a club that sets it's sights higher. What are we hoping to achieve next season, or the season after that? The likes of Enrique or Barton want to be playing in Europe every year but the club's focus until now has been to cut costs. You'd like to think the Carroll money will allow us to be a bit more ambitious but it will need a change of mindset not just a bonus windfall from selling a big player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 If we want to convince our best players to stay here we need to become a club that sets it's sights higher. What are we hoping to achieve next season, or the season after that? The likes of Enrique or Barton want to be playing in Europe every year but the club's focus until now has been to cut costs. You'd like to think the Carroll money will allow us to be a bit more ambitious but it will need a change of mindset not just a bonus windfall from selling a big player. you don't think we needed to cut costs and reorganise financially ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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