Newcastle United 2 - 1 Everton - 05/11/11 - post-match reaction from page 26

[Neil]

Care to explain how a push in the back is not a penalty?

 

Fwiw we're both shit at quoting posts on here.

 

There was barely contact and certainly not enough force to warrant a foul. The Gosling handball was a penalty all day long.

 

 

[juniatmoko]

In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)".

[thomas]

"Natural Position" means nothing and is s**** made up by pundits.  You don't find it anywhere in the LOAF and the only decision a ref has to make is whether the handling was deliberate, not whether a persons hands would normally be there. 

doesnt that contradict itself ?

Not necessarily.

 

If it's possible to construct (and I believe it is) a single example in the course of play for an outfield player to, say, have their arm outstretched inside the penalty area - an "unnatural" position for an arm - and have it make incidental (non-deliberate) contact with a ball, then we have to admit that "natural" vs "unnatural" positioning of an arm cannot be used to determine whether or not it's a penalty.

 

That is the way the rule stands now.  Intent only - was it ball to hand or hand to ball. 

[Hanshithispantz]

Just watched it again 3 times in slow-mo. He has absolutely no chance of getting his arm out the way like.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)".

 

Exactly, it has to be deliberate. Commentators and pundits are terrible at getting this wrong, the media ignore the actual law, so now fans and players have incorrect expectations.

[Neil]

In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)".

 

Exactly, it has to be deliberate. Commentators and pundits are terrible at getting this wrong, the media ignore the actual law, so now fans and players have incorrect expectations.

 

Well it'd help if the referees start applying the rules consistently, but then again that barely happens with any area of the law.

[Ash]

No way that Gosling's was a penalty, it's clearly ball to hand. I hate to see penalties given for those, would have been very very harsh IMO. Would have said the same if it had been an opposition player too.

 

It's a pen 10 times out of 10. Stonewaller.

apparently not 

 

If the ref actually sees it that is. 

 

He did see it.

[juniatmoko]

In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)".

 

Exactly, it has to be deliberate. Commentators and pundits are terrible at getting this wrong, the media ignore the actual law, so now fans and players have incorrect expectations.

 

"deliberately" was also written in BOLD also in that rule.... so it basically ref & assistant decision... even they see the handball they don't feel it was DELIBERATE means NO PENALTY.....

[Guest bimpy474]

It's handball but his intention is in doubt. At first it looks like he extends his arm to reach the ball but upon further viewing it was deflected into the direction of his arm. Either way intent is irrelevant, it's handball and by the letter of the law a penalty.

 

Totally wrong in the rulebook mate, and that is where the problem lies, a penalty for handball is to given for intentional handball, thats what your taught as a ref but it just doesn't work that way when a games in flow.

 

Consider me educated. You can forgive my mistake given some of the decisions you see these days.  Refs usually point to the spot as soon as they see any form of contact with the arm.

 

Your right, but the rules state something different, its just plain daft at times, you are taught its all about intent, ball to hand hand to ball , yet when you ref its just not possible to ref that way.

 

Prime example was for me last Sunday, i was reffed my sons game, my sons team defending a corner, the ball comes over, an opposition player hits hit on the volley, smacks one of my sons team on the arm right on the line, absolutely no intent but it stopped a goal, i had to give a penalty, yet if i went by rules it shouldn't be one as it was unintentional.

 

 

[Disco]

In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)".

 

Exactly, it has to be deliberate. Commentators and pundits are terrible at getting this wrong, the media ignore the actual law, so now fans and players have incorrect expectations.

 

Well it'd help if the referees start applying the rules consistently, but then again that barely happens with any area of the law.

 

Makes up for the penalty that we didn't get at Goodison last season which was the most blatant pen in the history of bad decisions.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)".

 

Exactly, it has to be deliberate. Commentators and pundits are terrible at getting this wrong, the media ignore the actual law, so now fans and players have incorrect expectations.

 

Well it'd help if the referees start applying the rules consistently, but then again that barely happens with any area of the law.

 

True, but referees only have to be consistent in their own views, not with those of other refs really. So much is subjective, one ref might view and incident differently to another.

 

That said, the ball was blasted against Gosling's hand today and it was never a deliberate handball.

[Guest bimpy474]

In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)".

 

Exactly, it has to be deliberate. Commentators and pundits are terrible at getting this wrong, the media ignore the actual law, so now fans and players have incorrect expectations.

 

"deliberately" was also written in BOLD also in that rule.... so it basically ref & assistant decision... even they see the handball they don't feel it was DELIBERATE means NO PENALTY.....

 

See my post above, directly below your post, thats the grey area decisions that should mean, for me anyway, in the rules it should just say, "handball if the ref/officials deem it to be" thats how it is anyway.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Yes, if the ref judges the handball to be deliberate, which is what the rule says already.

 

Obviously in the case of any offence the ref has to judge that the criteria in the laws has been met - it's always "if the ref deems it to be".

[Neil]

Surprised by how many people are trying to defend Gosling, and can't just accept that on this occasion, you got a big break. Doesn't mean we'd have gone on and won, or even scored the penalty, but there's no doubt you got lucky in this situation.

[juniatmoko]

In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)".

 

Exactly, it has to be deliberate. Commentators and pundits are terrible at getting this wrong, the media ignore the actual law, so now fans and players have incorrect expectations.

 

"deliberately" was also written in BOLD also in that rule.... so it basically ref & assistant decision... even they see the handball they don't feel it was DELIBERATE means NO PENALTY.....

 

See my post above, directly below your post, thats the grey area decisions that should mean, for me anyway, in the rules it should just say, "handball if the ref/officials deem it to be" thats how it is anyway.

 

No grey area decision.... because ref is the judge on the pitch.... he decide it.... we feel its grey area decision because we act like we are the ref in that match but honestly we aren't the ref.

[Guest palnese]

It was a stonewall pen. Unlucky, but still as clear as they come, imo.

[M4]

Surprised by how many people are trying to defend Gosling

 

Getting a little embarrassing now.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Surprised by how many people are trying to defend Gosling, and can't just accept that on this occasion, you got a big break. Doesn't mean we'd have gone on and won, or even scored the penalty, but there's no doubt you got lucky in this situation.

 

I'm not trying to defend Gosling at all, I don't care that it was our player or anyone else's. I say this whenever a pen is given for a ball blasted against anyone's hand.

 

In my opinion he didn't try to handball it, he didn't do it deliberately. The ball was kicked against his hand inadvertently, therefore (in my judgement) it wasn't a pen.

[Neil]

Anyway, enough of the penalty decision because as I say, it doesn't excuse what was a fucking horrendous 2nd half performance. Just when I thought "oh, we're on top now", we offered fuck all. We kept possession and did our usual thing of dawdling about.

 

Indeed, it was you who were more likely to score in the last few minutes.

 

More generally, we have a long-standing habit of not playing badly but losing, and playing well but drawing. It's almost as if we're a good striker away from being a good team - shocking, ey?

[Guest bimpy474]

Intent, no intent, the rulebook............its all part of an issue, but the biggest is the ref himself, he is a human being and as such is not a machine and will make errors, one ref will give a penalty that another ref will not, and there is no point in talking about consistancy, every ref will be different, will be at different angles to see things than another ref.

 

Love em or hate em, you got to have one, they will always nake errors, but will always make more correct decisions than wrong ones.

 

Except Howard Webb, he is the worst i've ever seen, a fraction worse than Martin Atkinson, both are s**** anyhoo.

[Hanshithispantz]

How is it embarrassing to defend Gosling? Are you trying to say he (without any doubt) purposefully handled the ball?

[Sifu]

Anyway, enough of the penalty decision because as I say, it doesn't excuse what was a f***ing horrendous 2nd half performance. Just when I thought "oh, we're on top now", we offered f*** all. We kept possession and did our usual thing of dawdling about.

 

Indeed, it was you who were more likely to score in the last few minutes.

 

More generally, we have a long-standing habit of not playing badly but losing, and playing well but drawing. It's almost as if we're a good striker away from being a good team - shocking, ey?

 

Got to say Saha was s****, should have put away the chances he had.

[Neil]

Anyway, enough of the penalty decision because as I say, it doesn't excuse what was a f***ing horrendous 2nd half performance. Just when I thought "oh, we're on top now", we offered f*** all. We kept possession and did our usual thing of dawdling about.

 

Indeed, it was you who were more likely to score in the last few minutes.

 

More generally, we have a long-standing habit of not playing badly but losing, and playing well but drawing. It's almost as if we're a good striker away from being a good team - shocking, ey?

 

Saha was shite, should have put away the chances he had.

 

A striker for us putting away chances, haha, good one.

[Sifu]

McFadden will be your saviour

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Feel really sorry for Everton TBH, a while ago it looked like Moyes was ready to take them to the next level, then their finances went up the shitter and scuppered it.