Dogawful Officiating

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

It's obviously not a penalty, fans of other clubs are really winding me up today

 

Neutrals are giving you unbiased views and you don't like it.

 

By the book, it's a clear penalty. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Just now, Froggy said:

 

Neutrals are giving you unbiased views and you don't like it.

 

By the book, it's a clear penalty. 

 

You're not neutral, you're a Man Utd fan. 

[Pata]

Seen many call the Pope incident controversial and I just don’t get it. He gets a clear touch on the ball and makes sure he doesn’t catch Gyokeres badly, how could it ever be a pen?

[Hanshithispantz]

It does look like he flicks his hand out like 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Just now, Pata said:

Seen many call the Pope incident controversial and I just don’t get it. He gets a clear touch on the ball and makes sure he doesn’t catch Gyokeres badly, how could it ever be a pen?

 

I was sat right behind it and it was clearly not a penalty live. I knew VAR would change it. 

 

TV actually doesn't have the best angle, from behind the goal, which shows how far the ball changed direction after Pope touched it. It was clear as day.

[Froggy]

Just now, AyeDubbleYoo said:

You're not neutral, you're a Man Utd fan. 

 

Correct, and I dislike Arsenal much, much more than Newcastle. 

 

1 minute ago, Hanshithispantz said:

It does look like he flicks his hand out like 

 

It's clear as day.  And this is the problem isn't it? 

 

I think the Gyokeres decision was correct. I think the Gabriel decision was wrong. I think Gabriel should have also been sent off. 

 

But suggesting that it should be a pen for Brunos handball is what causes uproar.

[Pata]

Just now, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

I was sat right behind it and it was clearly not a penalty live. I knew VAR would change it. 

 

TV actually doesn't have the best angle, from behind the goal, which shows how far the ball changed direction after Pope touched it. It was clear as day.

Yeah, I actually thought even live on TV that Pope must have got a touch as the angle the ball went towards the sideline was so steep.

[Kid Icarus]

4 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Neutrals are giving you unbiased views and you don't like it.

 

By the book, it's a clear penalty. 

 

You're not neutral

 

Even the majority of r/football upvoted comments don't think it's a clear penalty. 

[Kid Icarus]

3 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Correct, and I dislike Arsenal much, much more than Newcastle. 

 

 

It's clear as day.  And this is the problem isn't it? 

 

I think the Gyokeres decision was correct. I think the Gabriel decision was wrong. I think Gabriel should have also been sent off. 

 

But suggesting that it should be a pen for Brunos handball is what causes uproar.

 

Counterpoint, plenty on here still thought the Gyokeres' one was a pen/could have still been given.

[Froggy]

6 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Counterpoint, plenty on here still thought the Gyokeres' one was a pen/could have still been given.

 

Because they don't know the rules. Probably the same people claiming double jeopardy for the foul on Mbeumo on Saturday. 

 

For me:

Gyokeres - not a pen, clear touch on the ball 

Gabriel - pen, but can see the argument for the other side as he's sliding in and there is a slight ricochet, but the arm is in a ridiculous position even as he's sliding

Gabriel on Woltemade - clear red, no question 

Bruno G handball - clear pen

 

Also not sure what you're suggesting by me not being a neutral. Who am I leaning towards here? Our rivalry with Newcastle isn't on the same scale as our one with Arsenal so if anything I'd be leaning towards you.

 

And if opposition fans and Newcastle fans alike can't agree on the Gyokeres/Bruno G incidents, then are the refs even wrong in the first place? 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2025 by Froggy

[TRon]

18 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

It does look like he flicks his hand out like 

 

 

Looks like he's trying to keep it out of the way to me, his main movement is to turn away from the ball, his arm is tucked in before the ball is even hit. 

[Kid Icarus]

1 minute ago, Froggy said:

 

Because they don't know the rules. Probably the same people claiming double jeopardy for the foul on Mbeumo on Saturday. 

 

For me:

Gyokeres - not a pen, clear touch on the ball 

Gabriel - pen, but can see the argument for the other side as he's sliding in and there is a slight ricochet, but the arm is in a ridiculous position even as he's sliding

Gabriel on Woltemade - clear red, no question 

Bruno G handball - clear pen

 

Also not sure what you're suggesting by me not being a neutral. Who am I leaning towards here? Our rivalry with Newcastle isn't on the same scale as our one with Arsenal so if anything I'd be leaning towards you.

 

And if opposition fans and Newcastle fans alike can't agree on the Gyokeres/Bruno G incidents, then are the refs even wrong in the first place? 

 

Rules shmules, we both know they're reverse engineered to fit whatever decision is made while still being regularly highly subjective to interpretation and the incidents themselves.

 

The Gyokeres one could have easily been one of those ones where they argued that yes, Pope got the ball, but in taking the man out at the same time he prevented him from getting it afterwards - they're total bullshit, but we've seen that happen. 

 

The Bruno one would have been the harshest of the three, Gabriel's was by far the most blatant because of where his arm was.  

[Hanshithispantz]

Just now, TRon said:

 

 

Looks like he's trying to keep it out of the way to me, his main movement is to turn away from the ball, his arm is tucked in before the ball is even hit. 

Another angle would probably confirm it, but his hand is out of the way and it flicks out at the ball whilst he's turning. It could be innertia, but Bruno is a proper sly sod so I wouldn't put it past him doing it intentionally.

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Rules shmules, we both know they're reverse engineered to fit whatever decision is made while still being regularly highly subjective to interpretation and the incidents themselves.

 

The Gyokeres one could have easily been one of those ones where they argued that yes, Pope got the ball, but in taking the man out at the same time he prevented him from getting it afterwards - they're total bullshit, but we've seen that happen. 

 

The Bruno one would have been the harshest of the three, Gabriel's was by far the most blatant because of where his arm was.  

 

I think the elbow on Woltemade was the most blatant, but I only watched the clip of the incident itself and don't know any context. 

 

I'm still a bit sick about the clear red we weren't given and how long it took them to come to the decision. 

 

We're years into VAR now and there's controversy every weekend. 

[Kid Icarus]

8 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

I think the elbow on Woltemade was the most blatant, but I only watched the clip of the incident itself and don't know any context. 

 

I'm still a bit sick about the clear red we weren't given and how long it took them to come to the decision. 

 

We're years into VAR now and there's controversy every weekend. 

Oh yeah, I meant of the pen decisions. Woltemade and we paid the price for him not hitting the deck on that one, which is yet another motivation for players to play act from the top down. 

 

VAR is still a net win decision-wise for me, because I think we forget just how bad things were in that respect before it, coupled with it still getting a fair bit wrong, but I dunno if it'll ever get there. I thought the automated offsides would be a big leap, but it turns out they're not what we thought we were getting and are not even really automated?

 

 

Edited September 29, 2025 by Kid Icarus

[Craig]

Anyone have any idea what the actual rules for a handball are? All I hear is if it deflects of a leg and then hits the arm it doesn't count that just doesn't make sense, might as well swing an arm at the ball once you've blocked it.

All I can find is a change in 2024/2025 https://www.premierleague.com/en/news/4079558

A very clear deflection that results in a significant change in the trajectory of the ball should carry greater weight than arm position when considering a handball offence.

However, touching another body part before contact with the arm does not automatically mean a handball cannot be penalised. 

 

[Pokerprince2004]

Just now, Craig said:

Anyone have any idea what the actual rules for a handball are? All I hear is if it deflects of a leg and then hits the arm it doesn't count that just doesn't make sense, might as well swing an arm at the ball once you've blocked it.

All I can find is a change in 2024/2025 https://www.premierleague.com/en/news/4079558

A very clear deflection that results in a significant change in the trajectory of the ball should carry greater weight than arm position when considering a handball offence.

However, touching another body part before contact with the arm does not automatically mean a handball cannot be penalised. 

 

 

Love to know the answer to this too!

 

When it happened a lad in our WhatsApp group kept saying it couldn't be given as it's in the laws of the game, today watching ref watch Boothroyd said - "It's a tough decision but by the letter of the law it's the correct one." And even listening to the chronicle podcast with Musgrove, he says it's a rubbish rule. 

 

Is there an actual rule or is it just a footballing myth ?!

[Stifler]

9 hours ago, Hanshithispantz said:

I don't even know if it's intentional, but the gaslighting does my head in. Pope got the ball, yet they kept mentioning the incident as if it was contentious. 

 

The elbow was soft, but it's a clear red, yet it got nowhere near the same attention. Same with the blatant red in the Liverpool game when Barnes was wiped out by Konate last man.

 

It makes you feel shit being upset over poor decisions because you've also 'got away with one'.

Aye, everyone going on saying that Pope could have not got to it.

But he did though, he did get to it, that means it wasn’t a foul. Going all on about intent, because that’s been the excuse to bail out the top 6 clubs all these years.

Pier Morgan saying the same thing this morning, aye mate and you could try telling the truth and be a nice person, but you don’t, so we are stuck with you being a lying cunt.

I notice how there has been no conversation how ‘It could have hit him directly in the hand, so it is a penalty’ talk.

Arsenal, they won the match and they still fucking howl.

[geordiesteve710]

58 minutes ago, Stifler said:

Aye, everyone going on saying that Pope could have not got to it.

But he did though, he did get to it, that means it wasn’t a foul. Going all on about intent, because that’s been the excuse to bail out the top 6 clubs all these years.

Pier Morgan saying the same thing this morning, aye mate and you could try telling the truth and be a nice person, but you don’t, so we are stuck with you being a lying cunt.

I notice how there has been no conversation how ‘It could have hit him directly in the hand, so it is a penalty’ talk.

Arsenal, they won the match and they still fucking howl.

 

This is why they won't win the league.

 

Based on the two games against uus I'd say they're a better footballing team than Liverpool, but they've got the capacity to get distracted unnecessarily. Last 20 minutes of the first half was a classic example, just inventing made up fouls and getting more and more angry at the ref for not giving them. No coincidence it was the only period during the game where we looked comfortable.

 

When things start going against them they don't dig in and weather the storm like champions do, they just lose their collective rags.

 

Shame because I'd prefer to see them lift it than have rat-shaped claw prints all over the trophy.

[Likelylad]

I was saying this to an Arsenal supporting colleague today. That’s not championship mentality. The way they ran to the ref in numbers after our goal was pathetic. 
When the pressure is on at the backend of the season. They’ll fold. 

[Tsunami]

5 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

Or just watch the video

 

 

First time I’ve seen this, he’s clearly trying to pull his arm away from the ball. He’s jumped and turned, his arm has naturally come away from his body and he’s trying to pull it in. He’s not figure skating trying to do some fancy spin where they tuck in.

 

The worst decision really has to be Gabriel, it’s indisputable, it’s matter of fact, intentional and off the ball. This is why managers tell players to go down. 

[gbandit]

2 minutes ago, Likelylad said:

I was saying this to an Arsenal supporting colleague today. That’s not championship mentality. The way they ran to the ref in numbers after our goal was pathetic. 
When the pressure is on at the backend of the season. They’ll fold. 

They’re incredibly weak mentally. They got bailed out by the refs yesterday. Going to be funny as fuck when Arteta erupts with some more of his vermin-level craic when it goes to shit 

[Pata]

4 minutes ago, gbandit said:

They’re incredibly weak mentally. They got bailed out by the refs yesterday. Going to be funny as fuck when Arteta erupts with some more of his vermin-level craic when it goes to shit 

 

I can't stand them and I'm certain it's all because of Arteta and his antics. Full of 'tough' players who play on the knife's edge all the time stretching the rules. Then dive and surround the ref when anyone touches them. Think Gabriel is already in as a CB in my all time most hated PL team.

[Ginola14]

After seeing it back I'm now a little annoyed at Woltemade for not going to ground 

 

usually to get var to take a proper look it seems you need to make a big deal and appeal everything like crazy 

 

wouldn't want to see him rolling around the floor and pretending to be hurt but just go down ffs 

 

cost us the game in hindsight 

[Checko]

7 hours ago, Craig said:

Anyone have any idea what the actual rules for a handball are? All I hear is if it deflects of a leg and then hits the arm it doesn't count that just doesn't make sense, might as well swing an arm at the ball once you've blocked it.

All I can find is a change in 2024/2025 https://www.premierleague.com/en/news/4079558

A very clear deflection that results in a significant change in the trajectory of the ball should carry greater weight than arm position when considering a handball offence.

However, touching another body part before contact with the arm does not automatically mean a handball cannot be penalised. 

 

The rule is this:

 

"HANDLING THE BALL

 

For the purposes of determining handball offences, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit. Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence.

It is an offence if a player: 

 

deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball

 

touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised

 

scores in the opponents' goal:

 

directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper

 

immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental"  - https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

 

In most cases deliberate handball is fairly obvious. As is scoring immediately after handling the ball or off their arm.

 

The real judgement part is whether someone's arm has made their body unaturally bigger. That's usually the dispute, whether: 

 

"the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation."