Guest Deadmau5 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I know people make fun of Pards for going on about work rate, but surely getting him to put in more work than he was before is going to result in a better player. Simply because hes more likely to get on the ball. Its debatable whether it should be expected from a flair player, but its certainly only a positive if you get it happening. Dunno, getting a flair player tired not only affects his head, but also his legs. Id rather he conserve some energy for the sake of creating things and being fresh enough to be able to execute it as well. Its a bit like plowing a field with a porsche..you dont need 11 Kuyt`s on the field. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 A Kuyt with Ben Arfas ability on the ball would be the perfect attacking midfielder really. He shouldnt be tired out by working a bit harder to get it, hes probably just expected to cover Simpson a bit more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Very encouraging article and fits with the other stuff we've been reading about Hatem really. All credit to the lad for not getting too frustrated when he's not been playing. Dare we suggest that Pardew has actually been managing him quite well behind the scenes? I think you can... His agent has even said as much in that recent article... People on here forget he was nowhere near fit enough to start the season and we went on such a great run that you don't fix what wasn't broken... Slowly and sensibly HBA has been intergrated into the first team and wouldn't be surprised to see him start the remaining fixtures... What do you or anybody else expect Stainrod to say? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I know people make fun of Pards for going on about work rate, but surely getting him to put in more work than he was before is going to result in a better player. Simply because hes more likely to get on the ball. Its debatable whether it should be expected from a flair player, but its certainly only a positive if you get it happening. Spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Very encouraging article and fits with the other stuff we've been reading about Hatem really. All credit to the lad for not getting too frustrated when he's not been playing. Dare we suggest that Pardew has actually been managing him quite well behind the scenes? I think you can... His agent has even said as much in that recent article... People on here forget he was nowhere near fit enough to start the season and we went on such a great run that you don't fix what wasn't broken... Slowly and sensibly HBA has been intergrated into the first team and wouldn't be surprised to see him start the remaining fixtures... What do you or anybody else expect Stainrod to say? His agent could easily be agitating for a move away if that's what he wanted and he was really pissed off. It's not like agents always say their player is happy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Very encouraging article and fits with the other stuff we've been reading about Hatem really. All credit to the lad for not getting too frustrated when he's not been playing. Dare we suggest that Pardew has actually been managing him quite well behind the scenes? Certainly not. It was obvious months ago that if Hatem ever got playing at all then the likes of you would be coming out with stuff like this. If it really needs explaining to you then there is no point. Pointless telling someone something they won't understand/refuse to acknowledge. Christ almighty. I don't who the likes of me are, but anyway. What I'm saying is that there's a possibility that the relationship between Pardew and HBA is pretty good, and he's been explaining and coaxing him through the time he hasn't been playing. I'm not saying that he wouldn't have done well if he had played more, if you look at my posts I've been clamouring for him to start more all season. But he hasn't spit the dummy out or been frozen out permanently, so some decent management might have gone on behind the scenes. Like madras says there are different ways to look at how he has been eased in. But there's no way the answer to whether he has been managed well can be "certainly not", because you haven't got a clue what has gone on. Sorry I went a bit overboard because I knew this would happen Anyway, IMO Ben Arfa is the one who gets the credit, not Pardew. Pardew will get his credit when he finds Benny a role in the team that sees him realise some of his incredible potential. Not for attempting to make him into a right sided Jonas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 All depends on what the work rate was. Don't expect him to mark like a full back but we should expect him to do a bit of work defensivly (by which I mean when we don't have the ball as opposed to being in the back 4). Better players than him work for the team so no reason why he shouldn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Let's not forget a few of Pardew's prize moves in dealing with Ben Arfa: "He doesn't have the relish for playing on the wing" - That's pretty evident from how he plays there, he obviously hates it. Playing Sammy/Raylor/Obertan/Shola at one ponit ahead of him. Dropping him after scoring goals and changing matches - the key to building a player's confidence. People make arguments all the time which make me question what I think, and make me feel I could be wrong but no one is going to convince me that Pardew has not only badly managed Hatem in the press, badly managed him in regards to telling him how to play his game and badly managed him in regards to not understanding what roles he can play and how he can play those roles better than others Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 pardew was forced into playing hba because his team selection and tactics were so appallingly fucking bad in the first half, people should remember that, he threw him on to try and rescue him the week before as well i'm not entirely on board with the notion this is all some kind of masterplan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 pardew was forced into playing hba because his team selection and tactics were so appallingly fucking bad in the first half, people should remember that, he threw him on to try and rescue him the week before as well i'm not entirely on board with the notion this is all some kind of masterplan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi_D Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 none of this is because of his double leg fracture? and the amount of time it takes to return 100% physically and mentally after such an injury? no, no, Pardew hates Hatem. Hates him. That and he is the worst manager going. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 hatems gonna hate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Feel like it should be 'Hatems gonna Hat' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi_D Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Will score 2 on Sunday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Let's not forget a few of Pardew's prize moves in dealing with Ben Arfa: "He doesn't have the relish for playing on the wing" - That's pretty evident from how he plays there, he obviously hates it. Playing Sammy/Raylor/Obertan/Shola at one ponit ahead of him. Dropping him after scoring goals and changing matches - the key to building a player's confidence. To be fair to Pardew, HBA himself said last week that after his injury he didn't have the relish for playing anywhere and had fell out of love with playing football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 none of this is because of his double leg fracture? and the amount of time it takes to return 100% physically and mentally after such an injury? no, no, Pardew hates Hatem. Hates him. That and he is the worst manager going. pardew was forced into playing hba because his team selection and tactics were so appallingly f***ing bad in the first half, people should remember that, he threw him on to try and rescue him the week before as well i'm not entirely on board with the notion this is all some kind of masterplan How have you just ignored the post above you? do you disagree? Was this Pardews plan all along? Everybody is aware that he suffered a double leg fracture and of the amount of time it takes to return 100% physically and mentally. Christ. Fact is that regardless of whatever 'percentage' Ben Arfa has been at in the past months he was better than his competition and needed games in order to rise toward 100%. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Feel like it should be 'Hatems gonna Hat' It was between the two decided folk wouldn't know what that meant Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deadmau5 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 If I am allowed to speculate, I have a sense that while pardew acknowledges Hatem as a good fotballer, he prefers defensive fibers in all parts of the team, strikers excepted. HBA is a bit of a maverick, he does what he wants and is more preoccupied with offensive efforts than defending and tracking back. I think this is the crux of the "conflict". HBA was fit for play last september, maybe not the full 90 minutes - but the only way to get him back into match fitness was playing him. That didn`t happen. As to why that was, Pardew said many things. One was match fitness, but that was a bit of a circle arguement. How is he going to get back into gear from sitting on the bench.. For a long time, Hatem seemed to be something of a last resort. Behind Sammy Ameobi, Peter Lovenkrants and Perch/shola in the queue, He was only allowed to come on if we were in the shitter or if we were banging our heads against a wall. I cant see how only being allowed to come on when we are behind by 1-2 goals is beneficial to someone coming back from a grave injury, expected to turn the ship around. He was never going to come on at 1-0 or 2-0 with the wind in his back and allowed to have some fun, because Pardew isnt that type of manager. At that point he is more likely to sub on Perch or Guthrie and defend the lead. Our bad patch has been a blessing in disguise for HBA I believe, because if the good results we enjoyed before the Chelseagame had continued, it is my belief that he would have been binned by Pardew a long time ago. Had the results not been as dire as they have been recently, I firmly believe Obertan and Raylor had been the preferred choice regardless of their contributions, because they do exactly what Pardew instructs them to do defensively. In such a scenario he would probably have been immune to critizism had we been on 50+ points, but in my mind it still speaks volumes that HBA simply isnt a type of player he prefers personally. he is too flamboyant, too talented, too much to handle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi_D Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 How have you just ignored the post above you? do you disagree? Was this Pardews plan all along? I have. I disagree. But my quarrel is not with mrm's post. It is with the elaborate (and intricate) arguments that more or less presuppose that Pardew has purposefully stopped Hatem Ben Arfa from playing for NUFC. Basically because he doesn't like him http://i.imgur.com/im9D3.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
durhamunigeordie Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Hatem is the only reason that I am looking forward to the game this weekend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi_D Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 If I am allowed to speculate, I have a sense that while pardew acknowledges Hatem as a good fotballer, he prefers defensive fibers in all parts of the team, strikers excepted. HBA is a bit of a maverick, he does what he wants and is more preoccupied with offensive efforts than defending and tracking back. I think this is the crux of the "conflict". HBA was fit for play last september, maybe not the full 90 minutes - but the only way to get him back into match fitness was playing him. That didn`t happen. As to why that was, Pardew said many things. One was match fitness, but that was a bit of a circle arguement. How is he going to get back into gear from sitting on the bench.. For a long time, Hatem seemed to be something of a last resort. Behind Sammy Ameobi, Peter Lovenkrants and Perch/shola in the queue, He was only allowed to come on if we were in the shitter or if we were banging our heads against a wall. I cant see how only being allowed to come on when we are behind by 1-2 goals is beneficial to someone coming back from a grave injury, expected to turn the ship around. He was never going to come on at 1-0 or 2-0 with the wind in his back and allowed to have some fun, because Pardew isnt that type of manager. At that point he is more likely to sub on Perch or Guthrie and defend the lead. Our bad patch has been a blessing in disguise for HBA I believe, because if the good results we enjoyed before the Chelseagame had continued, it is my belief that he would have been binned by Pardew a long time ago. Had the results not been as dire as they have been recently, I firmly believe Obertan and Raylor had been the preferred choice regardless of their contributions, because they do exactly what Pardew instructs them to do defensively. In such a scenario he would probably have been immune to critizism had we been on 50+ points, but in my mind it still speaks volumes that HBA simply isnt a type of player he prefers personally. he is too flamboyant, too talented, too much to handle. Mentally he was not in the right place. He has said this himself....only recently (coinciding with the return of his old self at Sunderland) has his love for the game returned. This is again paralleled with Pardew's comment about his recent increased effort in training. Which coincides with his staring last week I dono it seems to make sense to me, and is definitely easier to believe than most of what has been soupted for the last couple of hundred pages in this thread and the old one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 If I am allowed to speculate, I have a sense that while pardew acknowledges Hatem as a good fotballer, he prefers defensive fibers in all parts of the team, strikers excepted. HBA is a bit of a maverick, he does what he wants and is more preoccupied with offensive efforts than defending and tracking back. I think this is the crux of the "conflict". HBA was fit for play last september, maybe not the full 90 minutes - but the only way to get him back into match fitness was playing him. That didn`t happen. As to why that was, Pardew said many things. One was match fitness, but that was a bit of a circle arguement. How is he going to get back into gear from sitting on the bench.. For a long time, Hatem seemed to be something of a last resort. Behind Sammy Ameobi, Peter Lovenkrants and Perch/shola in the queue, He was only allowed to come on if we were in the shitter or if we were banging our heads against a wall. I cant see how only being allowed to come on when we are behind by 1-2 goals is beneficial to someone coming back from a grave injury, expected to turn the ship around. He was never going to come on at 1-0 or 2-0 with the wind in his back and allowed to have some fun, because Pardew isnt that type of manager. At that point he is more likely to sub on Perch or Guthrie and defend the lead. Our bad patch has been a blessing in disguise for HBA I believe, because if the good results we enjoyed before the Chelseagame had continued, it is my belief that he would have been binned by Pardew a long time ago. Had the results not been as dire as they have been recently, I firmly believe Obertan and Raylor had been the preferred choice regardless of their contributions, because they do exactly what Pardew instructs them to do defensively. In such a scenario he would probably have been immune to critizism had we been on 50+ points, but in my mind it still speaks volumes that HBA simply isnt a type of player he prefers personally. he is too flamboyant, too talented, too much to handle. That is one of the issues people had, Obertan was useless defensively in that run of games he played, the odd moment he would track back BUT far too often he offered no support to Simpson and he was just drifting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I think there is something in the argument that the early success of the team without HBA made Pardew reluctant to change things around too much. But I think that's a pretty understandable response anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 How have you just ignored the post above you? do you disagree? Was this Pardews plan all along? I have. I disagree. "pardew was forced into playing hba because his team selection and tactics were so appallingly f***ing bad in the first half, people should remember that, he threw him on to try and rescue him the week before as well" So you're saying that this is not the case, Ben Arfa was not thrown on as a last resort/ pushing the panic button. But actually Pardew just recognised that Ben Arfa was now closer to 100% and decided to use him as was always his plan. You have to be kidding me man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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