KaKa Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Imagine our current manager thinking that Hatem Ben Arfa isn't good enough to be in that team that started the match yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Cisse's pass in the last minutes would have been ok if Hatem had moved for it. Give over, was a f***ing s**** pass, Ben Arfa was behind him just waiting for the ball and Cisse passed it out of play. No way is Ben Arfa being blamed for not moving there. I agree he's not fit or looking sharp but he's only going to get that by playing matches. He did well when he came on but once he realised there wasn't going to be a comeback, he wasn't bothered. He was coming to a DM position just to pick up the ball, least he actually wanted it. Not that he should be coming that deep, like. He was behind him waiting for the ball instead of moving along the right side line. The play was there and not behind Cisse. If hatem wanted the ball where Cisse put it, he would have pointed to the space, Hatem likes ball to his feet and that's where the pass should have gone. Playing it and then saying to Ben Arfa, well that's where you should be is just idiotic on Cisse's behalf. I wouldn't get all bitchy over one pass. That IS an over-reaction. Not as if it had any bearing on the game. Just brought up my emotion from last night arguing with fan near me who kicked off at Ben Arfa for being lazy and shit when Cisse's pass was shocking. More reason to hate our cunty home crowd for the way they chant Ben Arfa's name (they didn't chant his name last night, like) then when he comes on they moan and groan the loudest when he loses the ball or tries to much. Just let hatem do what he wants, he's a class act who should be able to play the football in the manner he sees fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Cisse's pass in the last minutes would have been ok if Hatem had moved for it. Give over, was a f***ing s**** pass, Ben Arfa was behind him just waiting for the ball and Cisse passed it out of play. No way is Ben Arfa being blamed for not moving there. I agree he's not fit or looking sharp but he's only going to get that by playing matches. He did well when he came on but once he realised there wasn't going to be a comeback, he wasn't bothered. He was coming to a DM position just to pick up the ball, least he actually wanted it. Not that he should be coming that deep, like. He was behind him waiting for the ball instead of moving along the right side line. The play was there and not behind Cisse. If hatem wanted the ball where Cisse put it, he would have pointed to the space, Hatem likes ball to his feet and that's where the pass should have gone. Playing it and then saying to Ben Arfa, well that's where you should be is just idiotic on Cisse's behalf. I wouldn't get all bitchy over one pass. That IS an over-reaction. Not as if it had any bearing on the game. Just brought up my emotion from last night arguing with fan near me who kicked off at Ben Arfa for being lazy and s*** when Cisse's pass was shocking. More reason to hate our cunty home crowd for the way they chant Ben Arfa's name (they didn't chant his name last night, like) then when he comes on they moan and groan the loudest when he loses the ball or tries to much. Just let hatem do what he wants, he's a class act who should be able to play the football in the manner he sees fit. You're coming down off the roofies, son. Go offline, take a couple more then come back on with more mindless optimism. It balances out this place against the rest of us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 JOKE ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 For example...when he picked the ball up last night 20/25 yards out, ran towards a man, skipped past him like he wasn't there then just over ran the ball slightly and went out of play for goal kick, had people standing up hurling abuse and the moans and groans. At least he was actually trying to make something happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 We're our own worst enemy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 For example...when he picked the ball up last night 20/25 yards out, ran towards a man, skipped past him like he wasn't there then just over ran the ball slightly and went out of play for goal kick, had people standing up hurling abuse and the moans and groans. At least he was actually trying to make something happen. If he was as sharp as before his current fatness period, that ball would still be on his feet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 For example...when he picked the ball up last night 20/25 yards out, ran towards a man, skipped past him like he wasn't there then just over ran the ball slightly and went out of play for goal kick, had people standing up hurling abuse and the moans and groans. At least he was actually trying to make something happen. If he was as sharp as before his current fatness period, that ball would still be on his feet. Maybe so, but he's not going to get match fit with half an hour cameo roles here and there. Needs a good run in the side regardless if he can't be arsed with defending. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 For example...when he picked the ball up last night 20/25 yards out, ran towards a man, skipped past him like he wasn't there then just over ran the ball slightly and went out of play for goal kick, had people standing up hurling abuse and the moans and groans. At least he was actually trying to make something happen. If he was as sharp as before his current fatness period, that ball would still be on his feet. If he is eating junk and overweight, that tells you a lot about the squad management, or lack of it. Can you imagine any player getting away with it under Mourinho? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 For example...when he picked the ball up last night 20/25 yards out, ran towards a man, skipped past him like he wasn't there then just over ran the ball slightly and went out of play for goal kick, had people standing up hurling abuse and the moans and groans. At least he was actually trying to make something happen. If he was as sharp as before his current fatness period, that ball would still be on his feet. If he is eating junk and overweight, that tells you a lot about the squad management, or lack of it. Can you imagine any player getting away with it under Mourinho? Agree and that's why I think Hatem will not ask for a move. He likes it here (there) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nixon Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 He's an interesting character -- a psychologists' wet dream. A star before he was even out of his teens, the Clairefontaine documentary cast him as an impetuous child, but a child none the less. The most talented member of the 1987 generation, he's also the laziest. And it's at that point you think, imagine being told you're fantastic before you've even achieved anything? Footballer's are often told by agents, managers, how good they are to build this wall of confidence, to make them achieve their potential. He was getting that same positive reinforcement from the media, and almost every avenue of his life. To a degree it was justified, his close control is fantastic. I've seen him do things with a football that don't seem possible. But underneath it all, there has to be self-doubt. The idea that you won't amount to what's been predicted, that you could be France's biggest waste of talent. Bruno Cheyrou, Anthony Le Tallec, they were all given similar positive mantles when they were younger, but neither achieved what Ben Arfa has or displayed the kind of match winning talent (albeit briefly). You also have to understand the French mentality. I saw Joey Barton talk about it. There's a belief that if you have to work hard, then you aren't talented enough. The training sessions are more tactical, but lack the intensity of England. As we witnessed last night, Ben Arfa has these moments of class that should see him at the top of the league. Yet when you contextualise it with his weight gain, the fact he puts next to no effort in defensively, and was coming on as a substitute, it's hard to justify Pardew's position. Yes it's a crying shame Ben Arfa lacks professionalism, that he isn't in the Gym maxing out his body and constantly trying to improve. That's a demon I think he'll have to wrestle with long after he retires. But in the immediate for us, that's where Pardew has to come in. Dropping him does absolutely nothing, other than push him further into his depressed insular bubble of self doubt and negativity. He has to be his pet project, and while I'm sure it can be frustrating to micro manage someone like that, the potential gains are worth it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 He's an interesting character -- a psychologists' wet dream. A star before he was even out of his teens, the Clairefontaine documentary cast him as an impetuous child, but a child none the less. The most talented member of the 1987 generation, he's also the laziest. And it's at that point you think, imagine being told you're fantastic before you've even achieved anything? Footballer's are often told by agents, managers, how good they are to build this wall of confidence, to make them achieve their potential. He was getting that same positive reinforcement from the media, and almost every avenue of his life. To a degree it was justified, his close control is fantastic. I've seen him do things with a football that don't seem possible. But underneath it all, there has to be self-doubt. The idea that you won't amount to what's been predicted, that you could be France's biggest waste of talent. Bruno Cheyrou, Anthony Le Tallec, they were all given similar positive mantles when they were younger, but neither achieved what Ben Arfa has or displayed the kind of match winning talent (albeit briefly). You also have to understand the French mentality. I saw Joey Barton talk about it. There's a belief that if you have to work hard, then you aren't talented enough. The training sessions are more tactical, but lack the intensity of England. As we witnessed last night, Ben Arfa has these moments of class that should see him at the top of the league. Yet when you contextualise it with his weight gain, the fact he puts next to no effort in defensively, and was coming on as a substitute, it's hard to justify Pardew's position. Yes it's a crying shame Ben Arfa lacks professionalism, that he isn't in the Gym maxing out his body and constantly trying to improve. That's a demon I think he'll have to wrestle with long after he retires. But in the immediate for us, that's where Pardew has to come in. Dropping him does absolutely nothing, other than push him further into his depressed insular bubble of self doubt and negativity. He has to be his pet project, and while I'm sure it can be frustrating to micro manage someone like that, the potential gains are worth it. Spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 He's an interesting character -- a psychologists' wet dream. A star before he was even out of his teens, the Clairefontaine documentary cast him as an impetuous child, but a child none the less. The most talented member of the 1987 generation, he's also the laziest. And it's at that point you think, imagine being told you're fantastic before you've even achieved anything? Footballer's are often told by agents, managers, how good they are to build this wall of confidence, to make them achieve their potential. He was getting that same positive reinforcement from the media, and almost every avenue of his life. To a degree it was justified, his close control is fantastic. I've seen him do things with a football that don't seem possible. But underneath it all, there has to be self-doubt. The idea that you won't amount to what's been predicted, that you could be France's biggest waste of talent. Bruno Cheyrou, Anthony Le Tallec, they were all given similar positive mantles when they were younger, but neither achieved what Ben Arfa has or displayed the kind of match winning talent (albeit briefly). You also have to understand the French mentality. I saw Joey Barton talk about it. There's a belief that if you have to work hard, then you aren't talented enough. The training sessions are more tactical, but lack the intensity of England. As we witnessed last night, Ben Arfa has these moments of class that should see him at the top of the league. Yet when you contextualise it with his weight gain, the fact he puts next to no effort in defensively, and was coming on as a substitute, it's hard to justify Pardew's position. Yes it's a crying shame Ben Arfa lacks professionalism, that he isn't in the Gym maxing out his body and constantly trying to improve. That's a demon I think he'll have to wrestle with long after he retires. But in the immediate for us, that's where Pardew has to come in. Dropping him does absolutely nothing, other than push him further into his depressed insular bubble of self doubt and negativity. He has to be his pet project, and while I'm sure it can be frustrating to micro manage someone like that, the potential gains are worth it. Pretty much what I said in my previous post but very well explained. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Come on guys ... why do all of that work when you can just play the jovial Shola Ameobi instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dabe Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yeah, why bother mentoring a surly Frenchman when you can play the future Prime Minister. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 There's definitely something wrong with him mentally. He put in a great half vs. Fulham and excellent performance in away to Villa, made some comments about the Ballon d'Or and then put in an incredibly poor performance against Hull. That wasn't just a bad showing either, he was really weird, it seemed like he wasn't focused and was happy to let things pass him by. Perhaps he just can't handle pressure. I could see the justification in him not starting whilst we were in really good form but the time to bring him back in has been around for a few weeks. His lack of physical shape is just an indictment of the current state of the club, not really an awful lot to be professional for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 There's definitely something wrong with him mentally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Who wouldn't be depressed playing for Pardew. He's not a clue how to utilise the lads talents. Keegan would have sorted him out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Don't think Keegan would put up with his work ethic, mind. I'm not on about the lack of tracking back, either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexthegreat Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Looks finished here - about to turn 27 years old, 16 months left on his contract, and on the bench behind Sammy Ameobi. Did well for the first 10 minutes when he came on and then couldn't be arsed - not for the first time either. Wouldn't be surprised to see him go to Turkey or Greece or somewhere and get even fatter. Should be the best years of his career at the moment, it's a bit of a waste. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Shame we've abandoned playing him in his best position Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Don't think Keegan would put up with his work ethic, mind. I'm not on about the lack of tracking back, either. He never seemed to worry about that with Ginola. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Worry about what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Going forward though, Ginola worked hard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Don't think Keegan would put up with his work ethic, mind. I'm not on about the lack of tracking back, either. Ginola didn't have the best work ethic but he managed him superbly.. Just said to him go do what you do best and let the others worry about defending. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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