Papiss Cissé

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

For me, the main issue is that in a 4-3-3, the central striker can't just hang around between the centre backs, waiting for chances to come his way. At that level, there needs to be more flexibility about the movement of the team as a whole. If the striker is static, he ends up isolated and the team looks predictable. It's like playing with 10 men. He also needs to be able to hold the ball up.

 

In fairness to Cisse, in recent weeks we have seen him occasionally move around deeper and wider to link with his team-mates. His work rate is fine. The trouble is, he's not very good at it. He has a poor first touch and the ball often bounces off him towards an opponent, or he mis-places a pass.

 

As for his finishing, we could discuss all day whether his conversion rate is better than this, that or the other striker, but it's apparent that last year he was on a good streak (as can happen) and what we see now is what we can expect.

 

Another weakness that he shows in his all round game is a lack of appetite for competing physically in the penalty area. He looks for gaps between defenders rather than make a challenge (esp at the near post). Obviously that's not always the right decision.

 

Good streak last year, poor one this time so now we can only expect poor? His debut game against Villa he dropped deep, brought players in with clever touches. He looks out of sorts at the moment and his touch has certainly been poor these last few games. However at times earlier in the season he was working diligently on a thankless task for the benefit of the team. His general play has been competent for most of the season I think. It does appear to be dipping of late.

 

The point you make about movement in your first paragraph is true, I think with Ben Arfa back he will be helped in this regard (fluidity of the attack). This should encourage him to take up better positions but again his positional play since January has been poor.

[pi_D]

Maybe I'm a little bias because I love Cisse but i think he is a fantastic striker and when playing well has far better attributes than any of the above listed.

 

His confidence has been shook this season and he has been below par, but he is far better than the above mentioned players.

[Mole_Toonfan]

On this Cisse and Benteke debate.... both work very hard, both link up well but Benteke is much stronger thus much better in the air and holding the ball up.

 

Out of the ones Dropout named Benteke is the only one i'd take but it would never happen, for one he would be far too expensive.

 

I'm still undecided which type of striker would be best in front of our attacking trio of Gouffran-Sissoko-Ben Arfa....

 

In theory Cisse could be fantastic for it, but you could also make cases for a target man with ability like Bony could also fit and you could also make a case for a lightning quick, dribbling machine like Aubameyang too.

 

Either way there needs to be an alternative bought, whether he can play wide is irrelevant now although it would be a nice bonus.

[Hanshithispantz]

Unbelieveable and Dropout are usually too busy queuing up the "Cisse " posts for when he misses a volley on his weaker foot to realise he spends the majority of games level with Sissoko. He's not exactly Sheringham but he grafts his arse off every week helping out in midfield to the benefit or hindrance of his own game. He's nothing even remotely close to what you would describe as a poacher, but that still doesn't completely negate his need for good service.

 

He's got 3 in 8 since Ba left (who on an unrelated note has 2 in 7 at Chelsea), it's still not spectacular by any means for a forward but it's a definite improvement on what it was, we just need to hope he regains the rest of his form sooner rather than later.

[pi_D]

Cisse is a far better 'all-rounder' than Benteke.

 

That's debatable tbh.

 

It's not. Benteke is much more all round..

 

Not from what I have seen. Benteke is great in the air, is a beast physicially, as Brummie says puts in a good shift. Cisse  has a better touch, passing, positioning, technique, and a better awareness of what is going on around him.

 

I'm comparing Cisse from his purple patch last season, not his current form.

 

 

[Mole_Toonfan]

Unbelieveable and Dropout are usually too busy queuing up the "Cisse " posts for when he misses a volley on his weaker foot to realise he spends the majority of games level with Sissoko. He's not exactly Sheringham but he grafts his arse off every week helping out in midfield to the benefit or hindrance of his own game. He's nothing even remotely close to what you would describe as a poacher, but that still doesn't completely negate his need for good service.

 

He's got 3 in 8 since Ba left (who on an unrelated note has 2 in 7 at Chelsea), it's still not spectacular by any means for a forward but it's a definite improvement on what it was, we just need to hope he regains the rest of his form sooner rather than later.

 

i have actually seen some games when Sissoko's average position is in front of him

[Gallowgate Toon]

I'd have Benteke. At 21, he's a better all-rounder and prospect.

 

Point is, these are inferior strikers in inferior teams,who have scored more goals. So, Cisse must take some of the blame. Most of the blame for his lack of goals.

 

"About right" is bullshit.  Worse strikers in worse teams do better.

 

And you don't think there's another reason that these 'inferior' players might have gotten more goals? The fact that the managers might play to said strikers' strengths? Wigan and Southampton play open and attacking football, I bet they've created more clear-cut opportunities over the course of the season than we have. I'd say Villa are more attacking too, they're another one let down by a poor defence. Let's not forget that Benteke and Lambert also take penalties too, as well as free kicks for the latter.

 

I think there's blame on both sides, Cisse's poor form is partly down to rubbish management and partly down to him.

[The College Dropout]

Cisse is a far better 'all-rounder' than Benteke.

 

That's debatable tbh.

 

It's not. Benteke is much more all round..

 

Unbelievable makes the most sense on this forum.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

[Kanj]

I'm all for some thoughtful analysis and its a forum where debate and difference in opinions are what drives the damn thing, but this Cisse slagging is some ridiculous shit. He scored for fun in the 2nd half of last season and has struggled this season in a struggling team. He has much to work to do - but that can be said about the rest of our squad and our manager - who for the most part have not been up to par this season.

[pi_D]

I can see Liverpool lodging a cheeky £35million bid for Benteke this summer.

[Dave]

I'm all for some thoughtful analysis and its a forum where debate and difference in opinions are what drives the damn thing, but this Cisse slagging is some ridiculous shit. He scored for fun in the 2nd half of last season and has struggled this season in a struggling team. He has much to work to do - but that can be said about the rest of our squad and our manager - who for the most part have not been up to par this season.

 

[Gallowgate Toon]

I'm all for some thoughtful analysis and its a forum where debate and difference in opinions are what drives the damn thing, but this Cisse slagging is some ridiculous s***. He scored for fun in the 2nd half of last season and has struggled this season in a struggling team. He has much to work to do - but that can be said about the rest of our squad and our manager - who for the most part have not been up to par this season.

 

Can't disagree with that.

[The College Dropout]

I'd have Benteke. At 21, he's a better all-rounder and prospect.

 

Point is, these are inferior strikers in inferior teams,who have scored more goals. So, Cisse must take some of the blame. Most of the blame for his lack of goals.

 

"About right" is bullshit.  Worse strikers in worse teams do better.

 

And you don't think there's another reason that these 'inferior' players might have gotten more goals? The fact that the managers might play to said strikers' strengths? Wigan and Southampton play open and attacking football, I bet they've created more clear-cut opportunities over the course of the season than we have. I'd say Villa are more attacking too, they're another one let down by a poor defence. Let's not forget that Benteke and Lambert also take penalties too, as well as free kicks for the latter.

 

I think there's blame on both sides, Cisse's poor form is partly down to rubbish management and partly down to him.

 

We are 12th for GS. Way more goals than Villa and Wigan. 12 more than Villa ffs. We've 1 less than S'hampton.

 

Maybe Kone's pace in behind has got him a few goals? Benteke's strength a few goals. Lambert ability to take a penalty etc. you understand?

 

 

[Dokko]

If we cashed in on Cisse in the summer and he was playing like this for another team we'd be laughing our nuts off like we have with Carroll.

 

Make no mistake he's been at worst dogshit and at best average this season, I really don't know who the real Cisse is, last seasons or this. Players who've let us down this season but have quality have shown an upturn at some point, for me he's not done enough for me to class him as one of them, but I still have faith he will by the Nd of the season. If not then we really need to be looking at a new striker to take his place, out of form for a year is not good enough for where we want to be no matter how nice a lad he seems.

[Hanshithispantz]

What Kanji said

[pi_D]

Is college dropout a windup merchant that I've not picked up on?

[Unbelievable]

I'm all for some thoughtful analysis and its a forum where debate and difference in opinions are what drives the damn thing, but this Cisse slagging is some ridiculous s***. He scored for fun in the 2nd half of last season and has struggled this season in a struggling team. He has much to work to do - but that can be said about the rest of our squad and our manager - who for the most part have not been up to par this season.

 

Why is it more ridiculous to criticise Cisse for underperforming than others, such as Pardew or Jonas? You say he's been part of a struggling team as if that absolves him of any criticism, but he's been as much as anyone in a position to influence that. Imagine where we would be now if he'd scored at the same rate as the second half of last season, or even one in two.

[Unbelievable]

If we cashed in on Cisse in the summer and he was playing like this for another team we'd be laughing our nuts off like we have with Carroll.

 

Make no mistake he's been at worst dogshit and at best average this season, I really don't know who the real Cisse is, last seasons or this. Players who've let us down this season but have quality have shown an upturn at some point, for me he's not done enough for me to class him as one of them, but I still have faith he will by the Nd of the season. If not then we really need to be looking at a new striker to take his place, out of form for a year is not good enough for where we want to be no matter how nice a lad he seems.

 

[The College Dropout]

You've said Cisse's "positioning" is better than Benteke's despite Cisse being offside loads.

 

 

You also said something about appreciation for space and others. Despite trying backheels when people are open. And maing idiotic runs from time to time right next to one of our players.

 

And i'm the WUM?

 

I like Cisse but he has been piss poor this year. It's not Jonas fault or all down to Pardew.

If we cashed in on Cisse in the summer and he was playing like this for another team we'd be laughing our nuts off like we have with Carroll.

 

Make no mistake he's been at worst dogshit and at best average this season, I really don't know who the real Cisse is, last seasons or this. Players who've let us down this season but have quality have shown an upturn at some point, for me he's not done enough for me to class him as one of them, but I still have faith he will by the Nd of the season. If not then we really need to be looking at a new striker to take his place, out of form for a year is not good enough for where we want to be no matter how nice a lad he seems.

 

Agreed.

[Hanshithispantz]

Is college dropout a windup merchant that I've not picked up on?

Pretty much, yeah.

[Gallowgate Toon]

I'd have Benteke. At 21, he's a better all-rounder and prospect.

 

Point is, these are inferior strikers in inferior teams,who have scored more goals. So, Cisse must take some of the blame. Most of the blame for his lack of goals.

 

"About right" is bullshit.  Worse strikers in worse teams do better.

 

And you don't think there's another reason that these 'inferior' players might have gotten more goals? The fact that the managers might play to said strikers' strengths? Wigan and Southampton play open and attacking football, I bet they've created more clear-cut opportunities over the course of the season than we have. I'd say Villa are more attacking too, they're another one let down by a poor defence. Let's not forget that Benteke and Lambert also take penalties too, as well as free kicks for the latter.

 

I think there's blame on both sides, Cisse's poor form is partly down to rubbish management and partly down to him.

 

We are 12th for GS. Way more goals than Villa and Wigan. 12 more than Villa ffs. We've 1 less than S'hampton.

 

Maybe Kone's pace in behind has got him a few goals? Benteke's strength a few goals. Lambert ability to take a penalty etc. you understand?

 

 

 

I didn't realise that goals scored was simply an indicator of how many good chances a team creates. All of those strikers, bar LeFondre (and he's not far off at all), have had more shots a game than Cisse, telling you all you need to know about them getting service, which will no doubt correlate to the way their team plays.

 

And yes, I understand what you're saying, Cisse is a worse striker than Ricky Lambert and Adam LeFondre I'm done with this, it's boring everyone's tits off and you're blinded by an agenda.

[Hanshithispantz]

You've said Cisse's "positioning" is better than Benteke's despite Cisse being offside loads.

 

Cisse total offsides... 27

Benteke total offsides... 40

 

 

I realise you're trying to be all mischievous and contrary but that still doesn't excuse you from being able to create a coherent argument.

[Guest icemanblue]

Ah, get in! Was hoping someone would dig out a stat. Just knew that comment was based on fuck all other than an agenda.

[The College Dropout]

No not really.I could play for Barcelona and i'd barely get a kick at goal all game. Why? Too slow, crap first touch, crap movement. He himself has scored plenty in this team, as has Ba. Best scored 6 in 11 at one point. Carroll a dozen too. The team is good enough to provide for a striker in good/decent form.

 

 

Yes, Rickie Lambert has played better than Papiss Cisse this season. He's been out of the team at times too. Can we admit that? Is Lambert a better player? I highly doubt it.