Papiss Cissé

[The College Dropout]

Not as good as we thought he was, simple as that, the sooner people stop making excuses and accept this, the better.

 

Thank you.

 

Suarez, Bale, heck even Demba Ba get themselves into positions either with skill, pace, movement or just sheer strength and they get their shots off. He's shown he can score in this team, as has Demba Ba.

 

Now all of a sudden, we are so crap creatively 6 goals in 20 something games is "about right"? The same amount of goals as Yohan Cabaye? Less than Lambert. Probably around the same as a couple Reading lads. Aye, "about right".

 

People moaned and cried for months from him to be the head of a 4-3-3 type system. We've done that. We've added some pace and movement to the left. A better outlet from deep on the right. Real movement, strength, power, pace and quality balls from our #10 type player and #4 deep midfielder.

 

Now these guys aren't doing enough FOR Cisse. Maybe Cisse isn't doing enough for them?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It's almost literally unbelievable to me the amount of our fans (well, on here anyway) who are doubting Cisse. Throughout his career he has shown he is a predatory finished and returns a good number of goals per game.

 

A disrupted first half of the season, and a dry spell in the second, do not change that. Just play him every week and wait for the goals to come.

[The College Dropout]

So nobody has been able to answer my question about what specific strengths he has, that we are not playing too, except for pointing to his number of shots as some form of evidence that we are not creating enough chances for him? Look, I don't need pointing out that we aren't exactly Brazil when it comes to creating chances, but neither do I think we are much worse than other teams in the league, and chance creation is as much something strikers contribute to actively as something that is done for them. From the statistics that Rich posted a couple of weeks ago his chance conversion was way below last season's and other top strikers. I don't even need to look at stats to know he's not brilliant at holding the ball up and creating chances for others. So I ask again, if indeed Cisse's disappointing season is a consequence of his team mates not doing their job well enough rather than he himself failing, how exactly should his team mates provide better service by playing to his strengths? Ping it high to him to hold it up, play through balls for him to beat the offside trap, make him work the channels, play crosses in from the sides? For me, based on what I've seen in the season and a bit he has been with us he scores the spectacular where he doesn't need to think and can just put his foot through it. Whilst these goals obviously look fantastic, it's pretty damn hard to base your gameplan around one of them happening every forthnight if you ask me.

 

Agreed. first time instinct finisher. 1-2 touches from anywhere. If it's not working at this point, it's probably HIS fault. These people are still like "NOPE, it's probably Jonas fault".

[AyeDubbleYoo]

So what if it's his fault? It's always going to be at least partly his fault. All that means is he's going through a difficult bit of form.

[The College Dropout]

Bit of an intuitive finisher rather than a methodical one. Hit and miss in other words. Can be frustrating as he seems the type that will get goals in gluts with periods of less prodcutivity.

 

My main worry is that he's not the type to grab a team by the scruff of the neck and lead from the front in a struggling side, but he just doesn't seem that type of player.  If we can go on a winning run again then I'm confident he'll play his part in it, chipping in with goals and intelligent all-round play and movement.

 

Agreed. His game seems to be very natural and confidence based to strike a ball cleanly. If there's shit loads of pressure strikers tend to think more which isn't his strength.

[Unbelievable]

So what if it's his fault? It's always going to be at least partly his fault. All that means is he's going through a difficult bit of form.

 

A difficult bit of form that has now lasted since last summer, i.e. for almost 8 months, coming off a spell where his confidence couldn't have been higher?

[The College Dropout]

What Unbelievable is saying... if he's not that strong, nor fast. Can't create from nothing. Isn't great at link-up. And is so reliant on excellent service. Maybe, just maybe.... he's not that great of a footballer.

 

This is why I compare him to Bent. For ages people have been telling me he's more than a poacher.

[Gallowgate Toon]

Not as good as we thought he was, simple as that, the sooner people stop making excuses and accept this, the better.

 

Thank you.

 

Suarez, Bale, heck even Demba Ba get themselves into positions either with skill, pace, movement or just sheer strength and they get their shots off. He's shown he can score in this team, as has Demba Ba.

 

Now all of a sudden, we are so crap creatively 6 goals in 20 something games is "about right"? The same amount of goals as Yohan Cabaye? Less than Lambert. Probably around the same as a couple Reading lads. Aye, "about right".

 

People moaned and cried for months from him to be the head of a 4-3-3 type system. We've done that. We've added some pace and movement to the left. A better outlet from deep on the right. Real movement, strength, power, pace and quality balls from our #10 type player and #4 deep midfielder.

 

Now these guys aren't doing enough FOR Cisse. Maybe Cisse isn't doing enough for them?

 

You are completely missing the point. I don't think 6 goals is where he SHOULD be at, but considering the complete lack of service and consequent lack of decent chances, it's not really a surprise and regarding Demba, he's a different striker who scores different types of goals. You mention Lambert but he plays in a very creative team and takes their free kicks and penalties. Cisse's had a couple of games at most this year where he's had more than one decent opportunity and there's been lots of others where he's had absolutely nowt to work with. Are you genuinely calling us a creative side here? Like I said, I don't think Ba's goals this year were really because of great or even decent, inventive service, he's just first class at getting on to stuff and making something out of very little, that's his game.

 

And as if it was going to be as simple as moving to a new shape. You cite new players, but how have they helped him in the last couple of games? We've improved as a team, but you're unbelievably narrow minded if you think we're getting the best out of Cisse in any way, shape or form. This doesn't mean I think he's at all blameless here, the offsides are annoying etc. but I still don't think we're doing enough to help him out, we're not playing to his strengths as a striker and we won't until we attack with more variety.

[Unbelievable]

Alternatively you could argue he's not the ideal striker for our current system. I've said this before, but I think with the pace of Gouffran, Sissoko and Ben Arfa we are perfectly set up to be a great counter attacking side. Up top you would want a forward capable of holding the ball up and bringing runners into play as well as create chances for himself and others, and considering we're playing with only one real striker, somebody who can be relied upon to hit the net more often than not when presented with a chance. A threat from set pieces wouldn't go amiss either seeing as we're useless at them. As it is, Cisse provides none of these requirements in sufficient quantities. I really do hope it clicks soon, but I find myself incredibly frustrated by seeing one of our better players in theory having a stinker for such a long time and people continuing to blame the manager, the system and his team mates before even contemplating there may be an issue with the player himself.

[Gallowgate Toon]

Alternatively you could argue he's not the ideal striker for our current system. I've said this before, but I think with the pace of Gouffran, Sissoko and Ben Arfa we are perfectly set up to be a great counter attacking side. Up top you would want a forward capable of holding the ball up and bringing runners into play as well as create chances for himself and others, and considering we're playing with only one real striker, somebody who can be relied upon to hit the net more often than not when presented with a chance. A threat from set pieces wouldn't go amiss either seeing as we're useless at them. As it is, Cisse provides none of these requirements in sufficient quantities. I really do hope it clicks soon, but I find myself incredibly frustrated by seeing one of our better players in theory having a stinker for such a long time and people continuing to blame the manager, the system and his team mates before even contemplating there may be an issue with the player himself.

 

I wouldn't disagree with the first part of this. I do think he of course has to take some blame, but I don't think he's now a poor striker and there are a lot of different factors that go into his overall season. Basically, I sympathise with his lack of chances, he's not really being given a good platform to work with and I'll call him out on it if he gets that but doesn't take said opportunities.

[The College Dropout]

No i'm not missing the point. "Considering the lack of service" is bullshit. Same service we've had for ages where our strikers have been scoring goals.

[merlin]

It's almost literally unbelievable to me the amount of our fans (well, on here anyway) who are doubting Cisse. Throughout his career he has shown he is a predatory finished and returns a good number of goals per game.

 

A disrupted first half of the season, and a dry spell in the second, do not change that. Just play him every week and wait for the goals to come.

1. How long do you wait ?

2. Do you think any of this is down to the way the team is set up to play..?

[Guest icemanblue]

He'll start scoring again, regularly, soon. Then, this will all be forgotten. Any further lean patches will see it re-emerge, using this period as justification for why he's not as good as we think he is. Football circle of life.

[pi_D]

It's almost literally unbelievable to me the amount of our fans (well, on here anyway) who are doubting Cisse. Throughout his career he has shown he is a predatory finished and returns a good number of goals per game.

 

A disrupted first half of the season, and a dry spell in the second, do not change that. Just play him every week and wait for the goals to come.

 

Summary.

 

Loads of faith in Cisse.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

He's all we have got till the end of the season. Lets hope he hits some form soon.

[Gallowgate Toon]

No i'm not missing the point. "Considering the lack of service" is bullshit. Same service we've had for ages where our strikers have been scoring goals.

 

Facts are facts, 2 shots a game this season (I bet the majority of which weren't even decent chances) isn't enough service for the majority of strikers and it's completely irrelevant trying to compare him to Ba, a player with a different style and strengths who can profit from different situations. Cisse's had a poor year, eveyone can see that but it would be complete lunacy to put all of the blame on him, not all of the factors are within his control. He's still a very good striker, who can score a variety of goals and thrives off good service.

[The College Dropout]

Maybe the point is, Cisse doesn't do enough to have enough shots at goal? Maybe he's not fast enough, not skillful enough, not strong enough, not good enough in the air, needs to improve his movement etc.

 

It's always what others arent' doing for him. But he's not doing enough for himself or the team.

 

Adam LeFondre has 10 league goals.

Arouna Kone has 8.

Rickie Lambert has 12.

Benteke has 11.

 

The list goes on. Only QPR below us don't have a player who has scored more goals.

 

It's not everyone else's fault.

[pi_D]

Maybe the point is, Cisse doesn't do enough to have enough shots at goal? Maybe he's not fast enough, not skillful enough, not strong enough, not good enough in the air, needs to improve his movement etc.

 

It's always what others arent' doing for him. But he's not doing enough for himself or the team.

 

Adam LeFondre has 10 league goals.

Arouna Kone has 8.

Rickie Lambert has 12.

Benteke has 11.

 

The list goes on. Only QPR below us don't have a player who has scored more goals.

 

It's not everyone else's fault.

 

I wouldn't take any one of those plays over Cisse.

 

 

[The College Dropout]

I'd have Benteke. At 21, he's a better all-rounder and prospect.

 

Point is, these are inferior strikers in inferior teams,who have scored more goals. So, Cisse must take some of the blame. Most of the blame for his lack of goals.

 

"About right" is bullshit.  Worse strikers in worse teams do better.

[pi_D]

Cisse is a far better 'all-rounder' than Benteke.

[Guest neesy111]

Cisse is a far better 'all-rounder' than Benteke.

 

That's debatable tbh.

[Cronky]

For me, the main issue is that in a 4-3-3, the central striker can't just hang around between the centre backs, waiting for chances to come his way. At that level, there needs to be more flexibility about the movement of the team as a whole. If the striker is static, he ends up isolated and the team looks predictable. It's like playing with 10 men. He also needs to be able to hold the ball up.

 

In fairness to Cisse, in recent weeks we have seen him occasionally move around deeper and wider to link with his team-mates. His work rate is fine. The trouble is, he's not very good at it. He has a poor first touch and the ball often bounces off him towards an opponent, or he mis-places a pass.

 

As for his finishing, we could discuss all day whether his conversion rate is better than this, that or the other striker, but it's apparent that last year he was on a good streak (as can happen) and what we see now is what we can expect.

 

Another weakness that he shows in his all round game is a lack of appetite for competing physically in the penalty area. He looks for gaps between defenders rather than make a challenge (esp at the near post). Obviously that's not always the right decision.

 

 

[Hanshithispantz]

What Unbelievable is saying... if he's not that strong, nor fast. Can't create from nothing. Isn't great at link-up. And is so reliant on excellent service. Maybe, just maybe.... he's not that great of a footballer.

 

This is why I compare him to Bent. For ages people have been telling me he's more than a poacher.

Definitely the worst post I've ever read.

[Unbelievable]

Cisse is a far better 'all-rounder' than Benteke.

 

That's debatable tbh.

 

It's not. Benteke is much more all round..

[brummie]

Cisse is a far better 'all-rounder' than Benteke.

 

That's debatable tbh.

 

I don't know enough about Cisse to have an opinion on that, but I will say that Benteke works really hard for the team, and always puts a decent shift in. Something that Bent never really does, hence him not getting much time on the pitch.