Papiss Cissé

[Guest NobbyOhNobby]

There is no correlation between virgin money and wonga. Defo can't use the 'he wore the Virgin money logo and they do loans so he should be fine wearing Wonga' argument. They're totally different beasts

[Decky]

We should just sell him now if he is adamant that he won't wear the shirt. The sponsor isn't going to change and he won't be allowed to play without it. Knowing us though we'll let this drag on like fuck, end up selling him late on leaving us fuck all time to replace him.

[Ste]

Very concerning early signs. I hope this can resolved as, rate him or not, he is our only recognised striker at the club. I think there can be a bit of give and take from both sides on this.

[Guest neesy111]

We should just sell him now if he is adamant that he won't wear the shirt. The sponsor isn't going to change and he won't be allowed to play without it. Knowing us though we'll let this drag on like fuck, end up selling him late on leaving us fuck all time to replace him.

 

Lowers his asking price as well.

[TRon]

We should just sell him now if he is adamant that he won't wear the shirt. The sponsor isn't going to change and he won't be allowed to play without it. Knowing us though we'll let this drag on like fuck, end up selling him late on leaving us fuck all time to replace him.

 

Lowers his asking price as well.

 

Not with our board.

[jdckelly]

There is no correlation between virgin money and wonga. Defo can't use the 'he wore the Virgin money logo and they do loans so he should be fine wearing Wonga' argument. They're totally different beasts

they both charge interest for loans which is the bit against sharia law, doesn't matter about size its the simple fact of interest being charged at all. So yes theres a correlation

[SEMTEX]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23347131

 

http://i.imgur.com/CnOQlU1.jpg

 

Papiss Cisse pulls out of Newcastle tour after sponsor row

 

 

By Ben Smith

BBC Sport

 

Papiss Cisse has pulled out of Newcastle's pre-season tour to Portugal after refusing to wear club sponsor Wonga's logo on religious grounds.

 

The Senegal striker, a Muslim, told club officials he was not prepared to promote the money-lending company.

 

But the 28-year-old did offer to wear an unbranded shirt or one bearing a charity logo instead.

 

It leaves Cisse's future in doubt, with sources describing the relationship between the parties as "strained".

The Newcastle forward and his representatives have been in talks with club officials and the Professional Footballers' Association in recent days but neither the club nor their shirt sponsor have been able to find a solution.

 

Cheick Tiote and Moussa Sissoko, Cisse's team-mates at Newcastle, are also Muslim but have told the club they have no issue with wearing the sponsor's logo.

 

Cisse will continue to train on his own as he attempts to catch up on his fitness after returning later than the majority of the squad following international duty with Senegal.

 

Both camps are hopeful that a solution can be found, but it seems Cisse is not prepared to move on his position.

[brummie]

Brummie...not to mention that even should he not wear a wonga sign, he'd still be wearing a Barclays one. You know the mis-sellers and libor fixers.

 

Exactly.

 

It's sad, really, it'd be nice for a footballer to at some point do something on a matter of principle and have it accepted as such, but looking at Cisse's thing, it's hard not to find yourself thinking that it sounds like a convenient - if implausible - excuse to get more money or a move.

[Dr Venkman]

There is no correlation between virgin money and wonga. Defo can't use the 'he wore the Virgin money logo and they do loans so he should be fine wearing Wonga' argument. They're totally different beasts

 

well you (YOU) WOULD say that

[TRon]

Fuck selling him tbh. He's a good player and we got him at a reasonable price. We can sensibly resolve this without selling him

 

The only way we will sell him is if we get his full market value. Say what you like about Ashley but he won't ever be taken for a mug in the transfer market.

[BrettNUFC]

f*** selling him tbh. He's a good player and we got him at a reasonable price. We can sensibly resolve this without selling him

 

What's your sensible resolution idea?

[McCormick]

Get the feeling he is being badly advised over this and this is not his own opinion and its going to hurt his career. I respect anyone making a strand for what they believe in however its making him look a little daft as all of the other Muslim players are wearing the kit.

Wonder what Ba would have done had he still been here.

 

That doesn't count for a single thing. You have no idea what are the other players beliefs are other than that they are muslim?

 

True but he is saying it is against his Muslim faith to wear the Wonga logo

 

Not all Muslims are the same, man.

No shit Sherlock.

 

may be wrong but I am sure most of Muslim faith respect the part of Islam that is giving Cisee the dilemma.

May be wrong here but I think all Muslims also do  not gamble, yes Cisee does, I have Muslim friends some are totally devoted some will choose not to be so strict on their devotion to their religion. Would seem Cisse is like this so lets hope he can find a way to live with wearing the Wonga logo.

 

 

It's true what you're saying;, Muslims, as stipulated by the qu'ran shouldn't be gambling but, as with most religions the extent to which certain sinful practices are frowned upon are dependent on different countries'/ families' interpretations of how these sins are weighted (in a moral sense). When a Muslim dies they believe that a set of scales (one side with sins, and the other with merits) decides whether s/he will go to janaa (heaven); so it may be more to do with what Cisse's views are as to the extent to which Riba is haraam. This situation isn't as cut and dry as many are making it out to be.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

f*** selling him tbh. He's a good player and we got him at a reasonable price. We can sensibly resolve this without selling him

 

What's your sensible resolution idea?

 

Earlier in the thread I suggested Cisse buy himself out of the Contractual Obligation and Wonga gives the money to a Charity. Good publicity for both.

[Guest neesy111]

There is no correlation between virgin money and wonga. Defo can't use the 'he wore the Virgin money logo and they do loans so he should be fine wearing Wonga' argument. They're totally different beasts

they both charge interest for loans which is the bit against sharia law, doesn't matter about size its the simple fact of interest being charged at all. So yes theres a correlation

 

It's interest that can be used for extreme profit which is the main issue.  Virgin doesn't do that, Wonga does.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Also starting to think the Muslim angle is media-driven.

 

 

From the BBC article 'Cisse, a Muslim....'

[Guest bimpy474]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23347131

 

http://i.imgur.com/CnOQlU1.jpg

 

Papiss Cisse pulls out of Newcastle tour after sponsor row

 

 

By Ben Smith

BBC Sport

 

Papiss Cisse has pulled out of Newcastle's pre-season tour to Portugal after refusing to wear club sponsor Wonga's logo on religious grounds.

 

The Senegal striker, a Muslim, told club officials he was not prepared to promote the money-lending company.

 

But the 28-year-old did offer to wear an unbranded shirt or one bearing a charity logo instead.

 

It leaves Cisse's future in doubt, with sources describing the relationship between the parties as "strained".

The Newcastle forward and his representatives have been in talks with club officials and the Professional Footballers' Association in recent days but neither the club nor their shirt sponsor have been able to find a solution.

 

Cheick Tiote and Moussa Sissoko, Cisse's team-mates at Newcastle, are also Muslim but have told the club they have no issue with wearing the sponsor's logo.

 

Cisse will continue to train on his own as he attempts to catch up on his fitness after returning later than the majority of the squad following international duty with Senegal.

 

Both camps are hopeful that a solution can be found, but it seems Cisse is not prepared to move on his position.

 

Both parties hopeful doesn't sound that bad tbh.

[Guest neesy111]

It's getting to the point where a decision to sell him or not needs to be made.

[jdckelly]

There is no correlation between virgin money and wonga. Defo can't use the 'he wore the Virgin money logo and they do loans so he should be fine wearing Wonga' argument. They're totally different beasts

they both charge interest for loans which is the bit against sharia law, doesn't matter about size its the simple fact of interest being charged at all. So yes theres a correlation

 

It's interest that can be used for extreme profit which is the main issue.  Virgin doesn't do that, Wonga does.

my regard for banks is so low I honestly don't make much distinction other than the fact banks can have and will do far more damage to peoples lives than Wonga can ever hope to do

[Memphis]

I'm sorry if I seem pedantic about it its just until we really know why Cisse is objecting to Wonga it seems silly to keep on saying he is a hypocrite (not you specifically).

 

Many, many posters on here objected to Wonga becoming our sponsor. I assume some of those objectors were not theists but rather people concerned with the unscrupulous business Practice.  Cisse seems to have an acute sense of humanity not displayed by a lot of footballers. If you have ever seen him talk about his time driving an ambulance in Senegal it is abundantly clear that he is someone who cares about people. Similarly the stories surrounding him and his involvement with charities and also just people in general in the North East indicate somebody who is very much a good guy. 

 

Conversely his recreational activities that are now well documented are not those of a strict Muslim with a black and white view of the world.  This leads me to believe it is entirely plausible he has a strong personal objection to being associated with this brand. For these reasons I am  currently reluctant to criticise his stance. My fear however is that this may mean he cannot have a future at the football club.

 

Either way I know who I prefer as a representative of NUFC.

 

That's well put. I totally agree with you and David with regard to Wonga as an outlet. I find their practices disgusting. I cringe when I see their logo on the shirt of the team I support.

 

And I can completely see and agree with why a player or a supporter would find them so repulsive that they simply couldn't wear the shirt. The reason I draw such a fine line under the issue is that to me there is a gaping difference between a truly religious objection and a simply moral one. There are all sorts of allocations made by employers to accommodate religious beliefs and practices; in fact, they're typically required to do so. There are no such allocations required for moral objections.

 

Whether that represents an actionable difference in how this conflict plays out I do not know. It may not, in practice. McCormick helped to shed a little light on some of the differences in interpretations some Muslims may use in observing their religious beliefs. But for me, knowing how professional football works - and knowing that the large pay packets you get as a top-class footballer are funded in no small part by objectionable businesses of many stripes, Barclays being atop that list - I find that a selective religious objection holds less plausibility than a purely moral one, if that makes sense. Again, I come at this from a relatively ignorant place, so I am open to learning more.

 

tl;dr - Wonga sucks, it's a tough, issue, wish Shola was Muslim.

[Guest neesy111]

There is no correlation between virgin money and wonga. Defo can't use the 'he wore the Virgin money logo and they do loans so he should be fine wearing Wonga' argument. They're totally different beasts

they both charge interest for loans which is the bit against sharia law, doesn't matter about size its the simple fact of interest being charged at all. So yes theres a correlation

 

It's interest that can be used for extreme profit which is the main issue.  Virgin doesn't do that, Wonga does.

my regard for banks is so low I honestly don't make much distinction other than the fact banks can have and will do far more damage to peoples lives than Wonga can ever hope to do

 

That's absolute rubbish.

[brummie]

There is no correlation between virgin money and wonga. Defo can't use the 'he wore the Virgin money logo and they do loans so he should be fine wearing Wonga' argument. They're totally different beasts

 

Yes, they are, but that's not the point discussed here, as we're talking about them within the context of Cisse's objection to wearing the Wonga logo.

 

If a person objects to Wonga and Virgin on the basis of money lending being morally wrong, then ultimately, they're two very familiar beasts, as that is what they both do.

 

If the objection to them is discriminatorily high interest rates charged vulnerable people, then they're too very different beasts.

 

Good point made by madras, too, about the Barclays logo. Barclays too are pretty despicable, on recent evidence.

 

[TRon]

In hindsight Wonga should really have quietly said to the club they were okay with Cisse wearing a shirt without a badge. If Cisse leaves on the back of it, it's hardly going to improve their image and the whole business has given them more negative publicity they could have done without.

[Theregulars]

It's not that he's despicable or hypocritical or anything, it's just that he's kind of lame.

[BrettNUFC]

In hindsight Wonga should really have quietly said to the club they were okay with Cisse wearing a shirt without a badge. If Cisse leaves on the back of it, it's hardly going to improve their image and the whole business has given them more negative publicity they could have done without.

 

It's clear Wonga aren't ok with this otherwise this would have been resolved a long time ago.

[brummie]

In hindsight Wonga should really have quietly said to the club they were okay with Cisse wearing a shirt without a badge. If Cisse leaves on the back of it, it's hardly going to improve their image and the whole business has given them more negative publicity they could have done without.

 

But then again, if that were the case, they'd want you to reduce the money they were paying for the sponsorship as a result of it.

 

I actually don't think Wonga would go for that anyway - if there is a Newcastle match on telly, and people are asking "why is that striker the only one not wearing the sponsor's logo", it's like a nationally televised reminder of how Wonga are unacceptable to a lot of people.

 

I don't think this is a situation which would be easy to fix in any way other than selling the player concerned - even though it's mental to find yourselves in that situation.