TRC Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 - He persists with a flat, rigid 4-4-2 when we don't have the personnel for that formation. - We play better with the ball on the ground - so we constantly hoof it. - Ba and Cisse can't play in a forward two - so we constantly hoof it to them. - HBA, Ba and Cisse spent 80% of the game facing their own goalkeeper - Our set pieces are awful, and I'm not just saying that. The taker, the setup, the constantly knock to Williamson - it's all rubbish - We have two wingers and two fullbacks bombing down the wings, sending crosses in, only for them to go over the forward's head - again, that happened at least 6 times today. - He sends on Obertan because he has 'the pace', then the f***er doesn't even use it! - Constantly chopping and changing the side (albeit some through injury/suspension) but we shouldn't be make 9 changes between Thursday and Sunday. Overall, we haven't put in a convincing performance all season, our heads look down and it's up to him to start earning that eight year contract. end of thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 'If we scored I think we would have won' - I fucking hate this line he peddles every week. Sounds like Martin O'Neill with that excuse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest palnese Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I'll be 33 years old when his contract is up. I'll probably look like I'm 63 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 And the mackems. Yep. Our problems are bigger than a formation. Our general passing and movement is terrible but the fact remains, 4-4-2 is redundant in this league. We have loads of games. Sit Cisse on the bench for league games and try something else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 He has us playing utter shit. Instead of not playing long ball he brings Shola on. It's absolutely dreadful tactics and nothing to do with Europe or players. Every time we boot the ball we lose it, what's the fucking point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 And another thing that fucks me right off with him is his reluctance to try anything new- mainly because he doesn't have a fucking pair. When he does (finally) put something into action (i.e 4-3-3, or not playing Danny Simpson etc) and it isn't a raging success instantly he won't do it again. He seems to deem it ineffective and wont do it again. It's so, so frustrating and yet another sign of how out of his depth he is. At least with someone like Brendan Rodgers he's sticking to what he believes in, despite initial lack of success. But it's all good, apparently we want to control the midfield and play like Barcelona, whilst we've also been working really hard on set pieces and making sure the other team worries about us. But it just hasn't happened yet because the chances just didn't go in today even though the players tried really, really hard in kicking it as far as they could for 90 minutes........ I said that months ago in the Liverpool thread. Now Rogers might still turn out to be a bad manager, but the football he's producing is the right way to play IF you want to become a successful side. His basic football philosophy is sound, whereas Pardew's looks antiquated. Sorry but you can only get so far with that approach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistle17 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 And another thing that f***s me right off with him is his reluctance to try anything new- mainly because he doesn't have a f***ing pair. When he does (finally) put something into action (i.e 4-3-3, or not playing Danny Simpson etc) and it isn't a raging success instantly he won't do it again. He seems to deem it ineffective and wont do it again. It's so, so frustrating and yet another sign of how out of his depth he is. At least with someone like Brendan Rodgers he's sticking to what he believes in, despite initial lack of success. But it's all good, apparently we want to control the midfield and play like Barcelona, whilst we've also been working really hard on set pieces and making sure the other team worries about us. But it just hasn't happened yet because the chances just didn't go in today even though the players tried really, really hard in kicking it as far as they could for 90 minutes........ I said that months ago in the Liverpool thread. Now Rogers might still turn out to be a bad manager, but the football he's producing is the right way to play IF you want to become a successful side. His basic football philosophy is sound, whereas Pardew's looks antiquated. Sorry but you can only get so far with that approach. I agree. I honestly wouldn't mind if we were set up as a team who are well organised and very hard to break down, but live to hit teams on the counter attack- releasing Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Ba and Cisse. Or having someone like West Ham did today in Diame. I'd be more than happy with that. But what we have is a completely disjointed 4-4-2 (it doesn't even look like a formation most of the time) where the players will punt the ball up the pitch as if getting it to cross the half way line is considered an attack. Why do we have to go a goal down to be able to conjure an attack together? Why?!! Its totally inexcusable! And I'm beyond sick of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Most worrying thing is the way we started. Not just the 4-4-2 but that slow, cautious start we always seem to have. I'd love us to start aggresively and look to score an early goal the way Man Utd. did to us. We always like to "feel" our way into games and it's BS. We should be looking to kill games against the likes of WHU within an hour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon25 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 It's also a mentality thing, I feel. We've seemed to excel in previous seasons/situations when the media etc have written us off. This year there's an expectation that we're going to do well. Whether that's Pardew's fault for not installing in the players that 'siege mentality' I'm not sure, but he needs to do much more to fire up the squad before a game. The way we've started more or less all games so far this season is nothing short of farcical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 So what can you say about Alan Pardew? Well, imo, he's a brilliant man manager and does handle the media rather effectively. Tactically though (the most important aspect of any manager), he's a very overcautious man, much to our detriment really. It can be argued a flat 4-4-2 is Pardew's way of "playing it safe" and counteracting the opposition (ie. the aim of being defensively solid) - he used it quite a bit last season and to an extent it did "work" and this is probably why he's persisting with it. It's evident that he primarily works on the defensive side of our game with the attacking side most likely being left on the back burner until a few/couple days before the day of the game - this is somewhat supported by the fact that we don't seem to have many ideas when we do attack during a game - it's usually the case that we pass it to Ben Arfa and let him do something magical/out-of-this-world. Not the right approach at all if you ask me. From what I've seen this season, our standard approach seems to be that of letting the opposition attack us for 20 minutes before we actually do something of note in their half - if this is Pardew's plan of "lulling them into a false sense of security", then again, that is not the right approach to adopt. When we do get into the game, we do show glimpses of doing something good but our shape and lack of movement means that we ultimately do nothing of note in the final third. This again is down to the limitations of the flat 4-4-2. The 4-4-2 vs 4-3-3 argument has been done to death so I won't go into it in depth about it but what I will say is that 4-3-3 gets the best out of the players we have at our disposal whilst the 4-4-2 restricts them. 4-4-2 can be a good system btw but only with players who are suited to it, ie. natural wingers - something we don't have. Admittedly, there will be times when a cautious approach will be key to coming out on top of a game but there is a need for flexibility. Are the players inculpable? Not really, some of our players have been underperforming (messrs Tiote and Cissé for me) in comparison to their outings last season. Our reliance on limited players such as Simpson and Williamson was always going to go up to a point where it was going to detriment us rather than benefit us - don't get me wrong they are players who are capable of putting in a decent shift when called upon but ultimately if we are to progress, we can't be seeing their names on the teamsheet week in, week out. You could put that down to failings from the powers above - I do appreciate their approach of not giving in to silly money demands from other clubs but there does come a point where you have to bite the bullet and offer that extra million pounds - it can reap benefits in the long run. Pardew has been let down in the summer, he did make it clear that he wanted 2/3 new first teamers in but nothing materialised. There have been worrying signs for the last three months now (which Pardew has acknowledged tbf) and thus far, they haven't really been addressed - there have been glimpses of improvement imo but they only ever happen for about 5/10 minutes in a game. Something does want to come out but we shy away from it time after time. I still trust Pardew btw, the things he did last season are more than enough evidence to me that he can get us playing in a way that is great to watch - my overly optimistic mind tells me that he will get things clicking eventually. However, it's an undeniable fact that his current tactics have been p*ss poor and he needs to sort it out and fast. His overcautious (and what appears to be his only) approach (score first, defend for the rest of the game) is a hindrance. It's now really time for him to properly earn his money. Howay Alan, time to "live a little". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Need a drastic change in his ideas on how to use the players. This sort of result: we'll have more of them if we don't start playing to our strengths. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Early November and we have a poll like that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Of course we should be trying to score an early goal but the problem with that is that Pardew then sends them out in the second half with an intention to defend that goal for dear life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I think we need a technical coach to help him. Stone/Carver is just jobs for the boys stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Most of the stale symptoms of the team at present are down to lack of investment in the team in summer from "Dekka" and Ashley. We did wonders to finish 5th but they took a chance and hoped we replicate that kind of form this season. So far this "approach" has proved completely fool hardy. We had a chance to kick on and didn't take it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 If you need to have a "muscle" player up front then you're doing something seriously wrong IMO. Very true. My heart sank when I saw Shola coming on at half time. I know Cisse was poor and apparently had a problem(?), but it was so clear what our intention would be for the rest of the game. He wants to bypass the midfield and go from there rather than trying to get us to play football. Typified by our chase for Carroll over the summer. Very depressing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I think we need a technical coach to help him. Stone/Carver is just jobs for the boys stuff. If that is so and he cant see that himself, then he isn't good enough for the level he is currently aiming at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 If you need to have a "muscle" player up front then you're doing something seriously wrong IMO. Very true. My heart sank when I saw Shola coming on at half time. I know Cisse was poor and apparently had a problem(?), but it was so clear what our intention would be for the rest of the game. He wants to bypass the midfield and go from there rather than trying to get us to play football. Typified by our chase for Carroll over the summer. Very depressing. Tend to agree with that. There just seems to be no gameplan at the minute. One thing I would say is that it won't take the crowd long to turn on Pardew imho. I hope for everyone concerned we put in a comprehensive performance against Swansea, muddle through to Jan and he get's to see some investment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I think we need a technical coach to help him. Stone/Carver is just jobs for the boys stuff. If that is so and he cant see that himself, then he isn't good enough for the level he is currently aiming at. But what is that level Bimpy? I get the impression that DL and MA would be happy to consolidate this year with an average season/top 10. The lack of investment tells you that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 One thing I would say is that it won't take the crowd long to turn on Pardew imho. I already am to a certain degree. Really cannot stand seeing him waste these fantastic players week after week. Unfortunately I can see the players going before he does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 The club would be happier finishing outside a European slot this season than in one unless it's the Champions League, less pressure to invest and less games for the squad to cope with. Imagine Bobby Robson complaining about having to play in Europe man, really pisses me off that shite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 The club would be happier finishing outside a European slot this season than in one unless it's the Champions League, less pressure to invest and less games for the squad to cope with. Imagine Bobby Robson complaining about having to play in Europe man, really pisses me off that s****. what cack, and robson did often say about having the extra games was a problem but a one he was pleased to have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 He needs to find some answers pretty quickly if he's going to turn this around. The situation baffles me. There is no logic to consistently picking players and forcing them into a formation that doesn't suit them. ESPECIALLY when a different system has already proved very successful with the same group of players. Why persist with it. It doesn't work. Only a fucking idiot attempts the same thing repeatedly and expects different results. Just fucking sort it Pardew, or at least have a go at changing it ffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 02/03 we won every game after the champions league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 He needs to find some answers pretty quickly if he's going to turn this around. The situation baffles me. There is no logic to consistently picking players and forcing them into a formation that doesn't suit them. ESPECIALLY when a different system has already proved very successful with the same group of players. Why persist with it. It doesn't work. Only a f***ing idiot attempts the same thing repeatedly and expects different results. Just f***ing sort it Pardew, or at least have a go at changing it ffs. einstein if i'm not mistaken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts