Guest BooBoo Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 If there's one criticism of Pardew that I will not defend its that I think he's responsible for Tiote losing his way a bit. For me, Pards has encouraged this ridiculous midfield warrior image when really he should have took him aside and told him "stop lunging in, getting booked so much and missing games you daft sod." The Tiote of 2010 was a much better player than the one we see now charging around with his silly Mr T hard man hair cut. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 25 yellows in 50 games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ste Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 After last season, expectations were naturally very high for this season. We've had an unspectacular start, but we have proven difficult to beat, West Ham aside. His insistence on 4-4-2 is an annoyance, but this early into the season and after last seasons great achievement, I find any talk of sacking him incredulous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The people that are so ready to move him on already are the specific reason he was given such a long contract. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The people that are so ready to move him on already are the specific reason he was given such a long contract. Oi Dekka well give im an eight year deals cause those cahnts on N.O. cahrnt be twusted yeah? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 If you think about it, calm down and think rationally, imagine it was another club - would you not think it was ridiculous to want a manager out who got a team like us to 5th, by november the following season when 11th? Yep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 After last season, expectations were naturally very high for this season. We've had an unspectacular start, but we have proven difficult to beat, West Ham aside. His insistence on 4-4-2 is an annoyance, but this early into the season and after last seasons great achievement, I find any talk of sacking him incredulous. People just want to see a bit more football and are frustrated. There is always a backlash after a bad performance, it calms down after a few days. If we lose to Swansea tho.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I don't think we should sack him and the notion is pretty extreme. After last season he's at least earnt himself the benefit of the doubt and a decent amount of time to turn things around. Having said that, I am concerned at the way we're playing and the direction the club is going. We had similar problems last year when playing a midfield two and the huge gap between midfield and attack is plain for everyone to see. The midfield are sitting far too deep and that's severely limiting our passing options which I believe is why we hoof the ball so much. If Pardew can't see that and switch things around to play this passing game he's always talking about then I don't see much hope for him. We do have a very good group of core players who have proved that they're more than capable of playing a fluid passing game. He needs to get away from this defensive, negative mentality and set them free, starting with playing a midfield 3 and 3 up top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The people that are so ready to move him on already are the specific reason he was given such a long contract. Oi Dekka well give im an eight year deals cause those cahnts on N.O. cahrnt be twusted yeah? Llambias pretty much directly gave it as a reason for the contract. Theyre fully aware certain sections will kneejerk after a bad run, thats exactly whats happening to some. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 There is no point in discussing whether Pardew should be sacked or not, because it clearly aint going to happen unless we face a relegation fight. To add to that, we could not attract the sort of replacement that would improve matters because every manager in the country(and plenty abroad no doubt)are aware that Ashley will not give any incumbent the sort of money necessary to improve the side. That doesn't mean Pardew is above criticism just because he oversaw a 5th place finish - even Roeder managed to get the club into 7th in his first season and Dalglish got us to finish 2nd after taking over from KK. His record is NOT one of a consistently successful manager in the long term at a club - and that is what sets the top men like Wenger and Fergie apart from the rest. Mourinho also falls into that category and even people like Jol have a better long term CV. I reckon Pardew is a good man manager in his first years with a club, but lacks the ability to change the team during matches so that defeats are turned into wins or draws...how many times have we come back from a goal down to win a game in the PL..? I am still to be convinced that he can get the best out of players over a long period of time...Tiote, Cisse and Cabaye have unquestionably regressed as players this season. Whatever any on here think, though, he is here to stay for the foreseeable future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The people that are so ready to move him on already are the specific reason he was given such a long contract. Oi Dekka well give im an eight year deals cause those cahnts on N.O. cahrnt be twusted yeah? Llambias pretty much directly gave it as a reason for the contract. Theyre fully aware certain sections will kneejerk after a bad run, thats exactly whats happening to some. It was a PR stunt. If the team are in any relegation danger at x-mas or if he (Pards) steps out of line with reg to the board or stops sucking Ashleys cock he'll be out in 5min. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The last few pages of this thread make me sad. Liverpoolesque sense of entitlement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 There is no point in discussing whether Pardew should be sacked or not, because it clearly aint going to happen unless we face a relegation fight. To add to that, we could not attract the sort of replacement that would improve matters because every manager in the country(and plenty abroad no doubt)are aware that Ashley will not give any incumbent the sort of money necessary to improve the side. That doesn't mean Pardew is above criticism just because he oversaw a 5th place finish - even Roeder managed to get the club into 7th in his first season and Dalglish got us to finish 2nd after taking over from KK. His record is NOT one of a consistently successful manager in the long term at a club - and that is what sets the top men like Wenger and Fergie apart from the rest. Mourinho also falls into that category and even people like Jol have a better long term CV. I reckon Pardew is a good man manager in his first years with a club, but lacks the ability to change the team during matches so that defeats are turned into wins or draws...how many times have we come back from a goal down to win a game in the PL..? I am still to be convinced that he can get the best out of players over a long period of time...Tiote, Cisse and Cabaye have unquestionably regressed as players this season. Whatever any on here think, though, he is here to stay for the foreseeable future. They will keep him unless there is any kind of real crisis from the player side or the league table. For them he is easy to work with and doesn't play up or not follow the company line. Even people who are hard on him on here recognise that he has plenty of positive characteristics...Just playing football that is easy on the eye or makes any kind of sense isn't one of them. What I do like about him is that he's made the team more solid and he's done this basically with a side that is short of quality at the back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The people that are so ready to move him on already are the specific reason he was given such a long contract. Oi Dekka well give im an eight year deals cause those cahnts on N.O. cahrnt be twusted yeah? Llambias pretty much directly gave it as a reason for the contract. Theyre fully aware certain sections will kneejerk after a bad run, thats exactly whats happening to some. It was a PR stunt. If the team are in any relegation danger at x-mas or if he (Pards) steps out of line with reg to the board or stops sucking Ashleys cock he'll be out in 5min. Well theyve certainly increased his payout for that PR stunt. It also wont take us being near that for fans to become discontent obviously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The people that are so ready to move him on already are the specific reason he was given such a long contract. Oi Dekka well give im an eight year deals cause those cahnts on N.O. cahrnt be twusted yeah? Llambias pretty much directly gave it as a reason for the contract. Theyre fully aware certain sections will kneejerk after a bad run, thats exactly whats happening to some. It was a PR stunt. If the team are in any relegation danger at x-mas or if he (Pards) steps out of line with reg to the board or stops sucking Ashleys cock he'll be out in 5min. Well theyve certainly increased his payout for that PR stunt. It also wont take us being near that for fans to become discontent obviously. Have they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The only reason I thought we may have stumbled upon a very good manager in Pardew last season was the fact that he looked like he was learning from his mistakes, and tinkering slightly with line ups and formations until he found a way to get the best out of Ben Arfa and Cabaye in that 433. It lead to us cementing our place right up there, and got the results we needed to finish in the top 5. This season he doesn't seem to be trying to remedy the obvious paralysis in our attacking play and ball retention. This is what has me worried. We're also conceding goals we weren't letting in last season. Fair enough we've had to make personnel changes right through the back 5, but even when we did that last season we only really paid for it at Norwich and Fulham (Spurs away was just one of them days). He has got to stop us playing to contain the opposition and let the opposition worry about us, which in my mind gives us the psychological advantage going into a game when the opposition see Ba, Cisse and Ben Arfa lining up against them in a front 3. At the moment we are losing that battle before a ball has been kicked as the opposition manager and defence go into the game knowing that all they have to do is get to the long ball first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The only reason I thought we may have stumbled upon a very good manager in Pardew last season was the fact that he looked like he was learning from his mistakes, and tinkering slightly with line ups and formations until he found a way to get the best out of Ben Arfa and Cabaye in that 433. It lead to us cementing our place right up there, and got the results we needed to finish in the top 5. This season he doesn't seem to be trying to remedy the obvious paralysis in our attacking play and ball retention. This is what has me worried. We're also conceding goals we weren't letting in last season. Fair enough we've had to make personnel changes right through the back 5, but even when we did that last season we only really paid for it at Norwich and Fulham (Spurs away was just one of them days). He has got to stop us playing to contain the opposition and let the opposition worry about us, which in my mind gives us the psychological advantage going into a game when the opposition see Ba, Cisse and Ben Arfa lining up against them in a front 3. At the moment we are losing that battle before a ball has been kicked as the opposition manager and defence go into the game knowing that all they have to do is get to the long ball first. I agree we sit too much and too deep. That front 3 is the best in the league outside the top 4. On the other hand he has got the best out of Hatem when even that looked shaky for a spell last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The only reason I thought we may have stumbled upon a very good manager in Pardew last season was the fact that he looked like he was learning from his mistakes, and tinkering slightly with line ups and formations until he found a way to get the best out of Ben Arfa and Cabaye in that 433. It lead to us cementing our place right up there, and got the results we needed to finish in the top 5. I find it mysterious for exactly this reason. Pardew was the one who went to the fluid 4-3-3 in the first place, and we did brilliantly in that formation. It suits Cabaye, Cisse and HBA in particular much better than any other system I've seen. So why does he not go back to it now? It's hard to say. I don't buy the argument that it's all to keep Ba happy - doesn't ring true to me. Maybe Pardew thinks we are harder to beat in the 4-4-2 - which I guess is a bit true. Maybe he is maintaining that solid foundation for when the attacking players get their act together. If/when that happens remains to be seen. Also, I don't think our problems are as simple as tactics or formation. We seem to be a bit nervous, our confidence isn't up and we aren't moving off the ball at all. I think the last one is the most important, the amount of times we're all standing around watching the ball is unbelievable. Maybe that is linked to the rigid system, and also to the morale being a bit down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 For all the much trumpeted 433, it's worth bearing in mind that we looked good in that formation perhaps in two and a half games- WBA, Stoke and the second half v Liverpool. We also used it Swansea who passed us off the park and in a rather dire home win v Bolton, illuminated by a HBA worldie. All those teams mentioned were teams whose seasons had pretty much ended or were heading down. It's not as if we taking on the big guns like that and our two most impressive results of the season at home to Man Utd and away at Chelsea were far more akin to the 442. If people think just switching to 433 is going to result in lush football and guaranteed improvements then that's a very simplistic way of looking at things. Our problems go deeper than formation issues at the moment; poor player form, suspensions, injuries and a lack of team consistency are also key factors in our sluggish start to the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 For all the much trumpeted 433, it's worth bearing in mind that we looked good in that formation perhaps in two and a half games- WBA, Stoke and the second half v Liverpool. We also used it Swansea who passed us off the park and in a rather dire home win v Bolton, illuminated by a HBA worldie. All those teams mentioned were teams whose seasons had pretty much ended or were heading down. It's not as if we taking on the big guns like that and our two most impressive results of the season at home to Man Utd and away at Chelsea were far more akin to the 442. If people think just switching to 433 is going to result in lush football and guaranteed improvements then that's a very simplistic way of looking at things. Our problems go deeper than formation issues at the moment; poor player form, suspensions, injuries and a lack of team consistency are also key factors in our sluggish start to the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Even our worst performance with 4-3-3 wasn't as mind-numbingly shit as the last 2 home games have been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Even our worst performance with 4-3-3 wasn't as mind-numbingly shit as the last 2 home games have been. Losing 4-0 at Wigan ran them close tbf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 True, but that game was ridiculous. We only played 4-3-3 up until 2-0 anyway, when we then tried to match their back 3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 First half at Everton is the worst I've seen us play since Chelsea at home last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I think it's scared Pards off 433 for life. Such a random game with a team in blistering form just taken apart by fucking Wigan. The implications of that game have ran deep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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