TaylorJ_01 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I think we should bring in a manager with clear potential and a good footballing philosophy and stick with him. Sounds like Martinez to me! This is always the best thing to do, but its like the club (and so many others) have a gambling problem. The 'best man for the job, or the best we can get' is always appointed, but when things go wrong the grass always becomes greener, and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that if we appointed someone else they'd be under the exact same scrutiny Pardew is now, even if they have a better philosophy. If he didn't have the relationship he has with the hierarchy he'd be out already, I wasn't a fan when he was appointed, won me over last season (yes like pretty much everyone) but those initial fears seem to have been realised. It's either an endemic problem, or just the nature of management. It's easy to look at the Ferguson's and Wenger's as the ideal, but in reality I think they are more the exception - and not an exception that can be easily predicted upon appointing a manager. I'd give Pardew another 6 matches to turn it around, if we're still spiraling out of control Ashley really should make a move. Saying that, if the ship goes down, I think the captain will be coming along for the ride. I don't know, man. If we lose the next six matches (which is entirely possible) we are utterly fucked. For me, now is the perfect time to bring someone in. Pardew's done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Games four and five we're almost certainly going to lose though, so that becomes a reasonable hinderance for the sixth and therefore makes 'next six' a bit harsh. If you're considering making a change, the more important thing is how long is left. Shearer got eight games and most said it wasn't enough time to arrest the fall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Pardew's really missed a trick by always forfeiting the cups. Win a cup, any cup and he'lll buy himself years with the fans and probably the board too. Does anyone seriously believe that Pardew forfeited the cup? What would be the point? I do. Fewer fixtures, it's quite straightforward. Has that ever really made a difference? I'm pretty sure the season we last got relegated we crashed out of the FA Cup early as well. When we got relegated I can't remember the club blaming it almost wholly on injuries and a lack of preparation time between matches. A 3rd round replay would have taken place between crucial games against Norwich and Reading, with a 4th round match taking place between Reading and Villa. He wants the time to get players fit, and to focus on stopping those free-scoring sides from playing. Our squad isn't that small that we need to forfeit cup competitions though, otherwise every other team should be doing the same. This time round, obviously we were short, but for remainder ties there would have been injured players coming back, and any new additions to add to that. I just think it's a lazy excuse that we need to forfeit the cup to concentrate on survival. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I don't think we went there trying to forfeit the game. There is a possibility we didn't risk Colo and Papiss which might have made a difference, but beyond that we just played like shit. That is the fault of the manager and the players, some of whom went there with things to prove, and beyond Ranger, simply looked like they were less than arsed about their chance. I appreciated Rangers tweet after the game, seems he is waking up to the fact he is very close to fucking up his future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 What did he say? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 What did he say? Just that the supporters deserved better after the long journey and that he felt he could have done better. Nothing earth shattering, but seemed genuine, and was a nice gesture in amongst the usual 'Brrrrap brrrrrrrraaaaaapping'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I don't think we went there trying to forfeit the game. There is a possibility we didn't risk Colo and Papiss which might have made a difference, but beyond that we just played like shit. That is the fault of the manager and the players, some of whom went there with things to prove, and beyond Ranger, simply looked like they were less than arsed about their chance. I appreciated Rangers tweet after the game, seems he is waking up to the fact he is very close to fucking up his future. Pretty much agree with that. I don't rate Pardew as a manager but even he's not that daft to be wanting out of the cup at the first hurdle against a championship side with the results he's been producing. I just think he didn't have a great side out on the day and then got out-thought tactically as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Our only chance against Brighton was an almost full-strength team really, it was clear we were ripe for a defeat otherwise. We probably didn't forfeit the cup, but we didn't rate it enough to really want to stay in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 What did he say? Just that the supporters deserved better after the long journey and that he felt he could have done better. Nothing earth shattering, but seemed genuine, and was a nice gesture in amongst the usual 'Brrrrap brrrrrrrraaaaaapping'. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 If I believed Pardew had anywhere near Moyes' ability, I'd be more patient with him. Did you know at the time that Moyes was as good as he has proved to be or are you talking with the benefit of hindsight? I don't think many, if any, picked Moyes out to be a potential star during the lean years. This is my point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Pardew's really missed a trick by always forfeiting the cups. Win a cup, any cup and he'lll buy himself years with the fans and probably the board too. Does anyone seriously believe that Pardew forfeited the cup? What would be the point? Play a weakened team at OT is forfeiting the game, in any competition. Whatever said they put out will win. Same thing with away at Brighton. Knowing you lost their last season with a pretty strong side, you go their with a weaker side the next is forfeiting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Pardew's really missed a trick by always forfeiting the cups. Win a cup, any cup and he'lll buy himself years with the fans and probably the board too. I don't think that's the way things work, with any football club. The minute a manager is struggling, all past achievements go out the window. Ask Arsene. Had he left after the last trophy win, his replacement wouldn't have had 7 years to try and win another trophy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The point about Moyes is a great one It's an awful point and I'm sick of reading it. There's ONE example of that working. Fergie? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Pardew's really missed a trick by always forfeiting the cups. Win a cup, any cup and he'lll buy himself years with the fans and probably the board too. I don't think that's the way things work, with any football club. The minute a manager is struggling, all past achievements go out the window. Ask Arsene. Had he left after the last trophy win, his replacement wouldn't have had 7 years to try and win another trophy. That's a token of the board's good sense, not the fans', many of whom would happily have seen him ditched at the first sign of decline Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Pardew's really missed a trick by always forfeiting the cups. Win a cup, any cup and he'lll buy himself years with the fans and probably the board too. I don't think that's the way things work, with any football club. The minute a manager is struggling, all past achievements go out the window. Ask Arsene. Had he left after the last trophy win, his replacement wouldn't have had 7 years to try and win another trophy. That's a token of the board's good sense, not the fans', many of whom would happily have seen him ditched at the first sign of decline Don't agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The point about Moyes is a great one It's an awful point and I'm sick of reading it. There's ONE example of that working. Fergie? He'd won European trophies plus loads of league/cup trophies. Plus that was about 25 years ago and the game has changed immeasurably in terms of manager stability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Tbh I don't think Pards is the guy to trust but let's not act like Moyes had a superb managerial record. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Tbh I don't think Pards is the guy to trust but let's not act like Moyes had a superb managerial record. Who says he did? The point is that he didn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I honestly believe that you could take any manager of reasonable intelligence and just flat out refuse to sack them for several years, and they'd turn out to be decent just as a function of experience and knowing the club better than anyone else. This is, of course, assuming that you don't get relegated in the mean time. Aside from a few genius-level exceptions like Mourinho, I just don't think there's a whole lot of difference in aptitude for the vast majority of professional managers. The ones who survive longer in the game whom we tend to think of as "decent managers" are just the ones who produce better short-term results. If it were up to me, the only cases where I would sack a manager would be completely losing the dressing room (Souness), complete inability to work with management (in which case they'll probably just walk anyway), or blatant insanity (Kinnear). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I felt really sorry for Souness. Thought he had the right idea when he first came in, and can more or less pinpoint the game where his plans got fucked up. Man Utd at home, Dyer and Luque either side of Shearer in a 4-3-3 and we looked like raping them for the first 20 mins. Then two injuries forced a change of system and it all fell apart. Luque nigh on snapped his hamstring, Dyer and Emre struggled all season and he never pulled it round. That 20 minutes though, with a halfway confident Luque and Dyer... Would've been a great first XI and a great way to use Shearer, had they remained fit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezertron Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Ex footballers shouldn't be Managers . Generally they're all thick as fuck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paully Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 A lot of people mentioning Laudrup - canny interview in today's Mirror with him http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/capital-one-cup-chelsea-vs-1524738 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Felt and still feel many emotions about Souness. Sorrow isn't one of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Felt and still feel many emotions about Souness. Sorrow isn't one of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I felt really sorry for Souness. Thought he had the right idea when he first came in, and can more or less pinpoint the game where his plans got f***ed up. Man Utd at home, Dyer and Luque either side of Shearer in a 4-3-3 and we looked like raping them for the first 20 mins. Then two injuries forced a change of system and it all fell apart. Luque nigh on snapped his hamstring, Dyer and Emre struggled all season and he never pulled it round. That 20 minutes though, with a halfway confident Luque and Dyer... Would've been a great first XI and a great way to use Shearer, had they remained fit He had the perfect player for that in Bellamy but his ego clouded his judgement. I don't feel sorry for him at all. He fell by his own bad decisions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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