thenige Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 We look a far better outfit and far more likely to score goals post-Ba. Just saying. Post-Ba with the new and uninjured players we have now yeah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Tottenham aren't playing poor though so Bale playing out of his skin is irrelevant, it's not like other players are suffering because of their system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Tottenham aren't playing poor though so Bale playing out of his skin is irrelevant, it's not like other players are suffering because of their system. The other players aren't playing that well TBH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Defoe then Bale have kept Tottenham going like Ba then Cisse did for us last year. I don't know if that's actually true but it sounds good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slippery Sam Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Pardew gets over criticised for te Ba situation. He saw Ba as the main man and positioned him as such. That is what you do with your star players. Partly, it was to help convince Ba to stay but Ba was justifying it with his performances. We all forgot that he actually dropped Ba unfairly at Everton. Ba comes on, scores twice and gets us a point by himself. At that moment, Ba was #1 in Pardews mind and he saw how vital Ba was. Clean sheets and Demba Ba goals was the foundation of last seasons success lets not forget. Can't blame him for trying to get back to that. Didn't work. Fair enough. But it wasn't horrible management by any shot. So Ba as centre forward last season wasn't a star player? You said, above, that 'that's what you do with your star players' i.e. play them in their best postion. I would have said Ba was a star player. He then gets shifted when Cisse arrives; what's that all about? You then say that Ba was dropped at Everton? Is that what you do to your star players? Genuine questions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Don't believe that for a second personally. Demba Ba was like our Bale, RVP, Suarez. Match winner, you put your match winners where they will be most devastating fr the team. Pardew thought that was Ba not Cisse. That's all. I dot think Cisse should've been wide either. The logic is clear and it makes sense. When we have no rhythm, focus on keeping clean sheets and Demba Ba will most likely score a scruffy goal. Difference is those players don't effect the overall play or system of the team, Ba did... I always said the team would be better without him and function much better and lo and behold.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Don't believe that for a second personally. Demba Ba was like our Bale, RVP, Suarez. Match winner, you put your match winners where they will be most devastating fr the team. Pardew thought that was Ba not Cisse. That's all. I dot think Cisse should've been wide either. The logic is clear and it makes sense. When we have no rhythm, focus on keeping clean sheets and Demba Ba will most likely score a scruffy goal. Difference is those players don't effect the overall play or system of the team, Ba did... I always said the team would be better without him and function much better and lo and behold.... Not counting Everton, Norwich and Reading then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I genuinely don't think Ba is as good as some people think. I won't be too surprised if his Chelsea career isn't that big a success. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 The simple fact was that Ba was able to play wide, and would probably still have scored goals, and Cisse wasn't. For me it was as simple as that, and I really rated Ba. The only reason to play him central was politics/personality, which is a terrible reason with a player who was bound for the exit anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Despite the fact we lost those games i do think we looked much better and functioned better as a team.... well except Norwich that was garbage for everyone involved and i don't think Ba would have made it any better as we created f*ck all for one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Despite the fact we lost those games i do think we looked much better and functioned better as a team.... well except Norwich that was garbage for everyone involved and i don't think Ba would have made it any better as we created f*ck all for one. It's obviously just a coincidence but Ba scored 5 goals against those 3 teams in the corresponding fixtures. It could be argued he won us 5 points then too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Ba or not, its not too controversial to suggest that the season thus far has been at best underwhelming and at worst depressing. I admit to expressing that I thought we would be better off without him a while ago. Arguably this was the heart ruling the head, but football is a game and a spectator sport to boot. Every week this season with the exception of Wigan at Home and the 2nd half against city at Home I felt very little pleasure watching the team. It was a burden borne of duty rather than of excitement and anticipation. For large parts of this season the team has been under performing. The performance of the team when players have been injured has not been good enough. A manager must be accountable to a certain degree of the performances of any XI that are out on the pitch during his tenure. This is irrespective of injuries and or recruitment (lack thereof) in the summer. Pardew can still mitigate this season significantly by good European performance and climbing the league table. This would go some way to allaying the doubts people have about him. However, there is justifiably a feeling amongst supporters that the season so far has exposed limitations to Pardew's management. FWIW I think he is a good pragmatist and 'manages' the football club well. By which I mean keeping players on board, working well within our board/structure etc. I am optimistic with the new signings that things will get better and I also think that if Pardew learns from his mistakes and also the events of this season then that may well be the biggest success for Newcastle in the long term. Unless we win the Europa league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I would much rather have a pragmatic manager than one who causes trouble with the board for the sake of his own ego. At the end of the day a manager like that would be fired fairly quickly anyway, by this regime at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Tottenham aren't playing poor though so Bale playing out of his skin is irrelevant, it's not like other players are suffering because of their system. The other players aren't playing that well TBH. They've hardly been poor, have they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Dembele has been below par in recent weeks but that is more to having to do more defensive work without Sandro and Parker being crap than having the team built around Bale. But that aside nah not really, Bale being the forefront of anything has hardly effected them as a team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Aye, I don't buy it at all like, they didn't exactly look bad as a team against us for one. Bale is on fire and undoubtedly the main reason behind their current form, but he's not fucking Superman. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I didn't mean they had been poor, they've been decent to good. But Bale is obviously helping them to gain a lot of extra points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season#Top_scorers Take Bale out of that and they're mid-table at best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season#Top_scorers Take Bale out of that and they're mid-table at best. Yeah, Football definitely works like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Of course they have affected the overall play and system of those teams. Don't be daft. Ba wasn't shifted when Cisse arrived. They played as a partnership for a good number of games including Cisse's debut when Cisse came. Only during the middle of Ba's slump was he moved put wide, same thing with Cisse. And even then we played them as a two when we beat Chelsea. They played as a two at the start, Cisse shone Ba stopped scoring. Ba moved wide. Same story this year in reverse. Not understanding the horrible management view. People act like he preferred Ba for no reason. I would say Steven Taylor, Debuchy, Sissokho, Gouffran and most importantly the return of Cabaye as biggest factors than our return to form than Ba leaving. IMO we would be a better side with Ba playing in this system than Cisse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 They didn't work as a partnership, they didn't work with Cisse wide. It's not about preferring any individual, it's about the fact that playing Ba wide and Cisse central was the way to produce the best team. Obviously we're arguing hypothetical situation against something that actually happened, so it's kind of hard to know either way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season#Top_scorers Take Bale out of that and they're mid-table at best. Yeah, Football definitely works like that. If he got injured now how do you think they'd do? Who would carry the weight? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 They didn't work as a partnership, they didn't work with Cisse wide. It's not about preferring any individual, it's about the fact that playing Ba wide and Cisse central was the way to produce the best team. Obviously we're arguing hypothetical situation against something that actually happened, so it's kind of hard to know either way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season#Top_scorers Take Bale out of that and they're mid-table at best. Yeah, Football definitely works like that. If he got injured now how do you think they'd do? Who would carry the weight? I don't know and I don't care, take Bale out though and they aren't a mid table side, that is ludicrous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Hans, how many less points do you think they would have without Bale? It can't be far off 10 IMO. Not that it's a problem, they're entitled to any points he gets them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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