Alan Pardew

[Parky]

AVB has a bit of substance about him, Rodgers much like Pardew is a bit of a fraud who will be found out eventually.

 

Think that's about right.

[leffe186]

Spurs have played pretty poorly in many games. Thought WHam fought back and would have won without the two Bale goals.

 

Oh, stop it.

 

Yes, we'd have lost if we'd scored one and they'd scored two. Can't argue with that.

 

Look, we made a s***-load of clear chances, and their keeper played a blinder. We didn't play particularly well, yet against a team that have done really well at home, and on a night where - and fair enough - they pulled every possible emotive string to gee up the crowd and players, we had over 60% possession and over three times as many shots - 16 on target. This has happened in most games over the last few weeks. We don't look particularly great, we seem a bit dull, then you look at the stats and we had lots of possession and far more shots/chances than the oppo. I think that's a conscious decision by AVB (keep it tight all over, rather than go gung-ho) and the law of averages suggests that it should work. And yeah, we're third.

 

Anyway, I'm just a bit bored with people saying "take Bale out and we'd fall apart". Well, we'd obviously be struggling to stay where we are, because he's really bloody good. It's a pointless thing to say. AVB has put together the team in such a way as to give Bale as much freedom as possible, and he's responded. Redknapp tried the same last year, off and on, and it didn't work as well.

 

We lost two of our three best players last year (some include King, but he was fading rapidly). We brought in a few, but then lost our best centre-back. Then AVB lost Sandro for the season - disrupting our excellent CM. Then we lost our striker, our top scorer. So, take out Kaboul, Sandro, and Defoe, and we're still third. And you want us to take out Bale too? And you're willing to go out on a limb and say we'd not be as good? Not meaning to pick on you here, Parky, but I must have read dozens and dozens of posts from people over the last month along the same lines (Edit: Across several forums - Liverpool, Arsenal etc), and this is the only time I've thought "f*** it, I'm responding."

 

I don't think we can judge AVB too harshly or too generously - he's had two-thirds of a season. He's done better than I expected. Whoever it was that said he made players like Defoe not just look better, but be better (Tiresias?) is right. Defoe is not alone.

 

As for Pards and Rodgers, well I spent a fair bit of time on the West Ham board this last seven days, and more than one person referred to Pardew as a fraud. I don't watch you guys closely enough to say so for sure, but you really were the fifth best side last year. He must have played some part in that. In the same vein, I see the real improvement in Rodgers' team. Maybe they'll both turn out to be mistakes, but they've both been given markedly improved squads to play with now.

[Hanshithispantz]

I'm sure the difference between 3rd and 5th is important in te Premiership like. Just a hunch. 

I'm not even entirely sure you realise what you're arguing against here. No-one is saying Bale isn't "carrying Tottenham", he undoubtedly is firing them to a potential 3rd place finish. The argument is that the rest of the Spurs side haven't been playing poor (man for man they were arguably better than us at WHL, certainly on par) and that without Bale they would not be a mid table side.

 

I have no idea what your fucking tirade was all about but I can only guess it was typed furiously by a man extremely high on various solvents.

[Parky]

Spurs have played pretty poorly in many games. Thought WHam fought back and would have won without the two Bale goals.

 

Oh, stop it.

 

Yes, we'd have lost if we'd scored one and they'd scored two. Can't argue with that.

 

Look, we made a s***-load of clear chances, and their keeper played a blinder. We didn't play particularly well, yet against a team that have done really well at home, and on a night where - and fair enough - they pulled every possible emotive string to gee up the crowd and players, we had over 60% possession and over three times as many shots - 16 on target. This has happened in most games over the last few weeks. We don't look particularly great, we seem a bit dull, then you look at the stats and we had lots of possession and far more shots/chances than the oppo. I think that's a conscious decision by AVB (keep it tight all over, rather than go gung-ho) and the law of averages suggests that it should work. And yeah, we're third.

 

Anyway, I'm just a bit bored with people saying "take Bale out and we'd fall apart". Well, we'd obviously be struggling to stay where we are, because he's really bloody good. It's a pointless thing to say. AVB has put together the team in such a way as to give Bale as much freedom as possible, and he's responded. Redknapp tried the same last year, off and on, and it didn't work as well.

 

We lost two of our three best players last year (some include King, but he was fading rapidly). We brought in a few, but then lost our best centre-back. Then AVB lost Sandro for the season - disrupting our excellent CM. Then we lost our striker, our top scorer. So, take out Kaboul, Sandro, and Defoe, and we're still third. And you want us to take out Bale too? And you're willing to go out on a limb and say we'd not be as good? Not meaning to pick on you here, Parky, but I must have read dozens and dozens of posts from people over the last month along the same lines, and this is the only time I've thought "f*** it, I'm responding."

 

I don't think we can judge AVB too harshly or too generously - he's had two-thirds of a season. He's done better than I expected. Whoever it was that said he made players like Defoe not just look better, but be better (Tiresias?) is right. Defoe is not alone.

 

As for Pards and Rodgers, well I spent a fair bit of time on the West Ham board this last seven days, and more than one person referred to Pardew as a fraud. I don't watch you guys closely enough to say so for sure, but you really were the fifth best side last year. He must have played some part in that. In the same vein, I see the real improvement in Rodgers' team. Maybe they'll both turn out to be mistakes, but they've both been given markedly improved squads to play with now.

 

Good reply. Stung into action. 

 

Think for me the bottom line with AVB is that Spurs aren't playing like I expect a Spurs side to play. You forget at the start of the season there were moments the supporters had started turning on his over organised and steady approach. Then he didn't play Adebayor for ages and played Defoe alone upfront (seems to have destroyed Ade's mind). Spurs would be the ideal club for Laudrup.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Thing is, AVB has come in and replaced a very popular and to be honest, successful Spurs manager, and has also lost some decent players from that era, yet has them probably just out performing Redknapp's side, and all in his first season too. Tactically he's well ahead of his predecessor and has more about him. They are more boring the watch under him and far more lets say, pragmatic, but they are effective and creative, certainly enough to win games regardless of the opposition. If he gets into the CL, the way Spurs are ran money wise, I can see him improving them even further and perhaps even replacing Arsenal as a CL certainty.

[leffe186]

Good reply.

 

Think for me the bottom line with AVB is that Spurs aren't playing like I expect a Spurs side to play. You forget at the start of the season there were moments the supporters had started turning on his over organised and steady approach. Then he didn't play Adebayor for ages and played Defoe alone upfront (seems to have destroyed Ade's mind). Spurs would be the ideal club for Laudrup.

 

Cheers. Didn't mean to jump down your throat, but I've read some extraordinary drivel on RAWK/Arsenalmania etc about us, and this is a far better forum to talk about it .

 

Yeah, there is definitely a split among Spurs supporters on our style of play. We'd like to be more expansive, but it's difficult to argue when we're getting the results. In the first three games we didn't, and that's when we were really worried. Some still are, though I'm pretty sure they're a small minority. We let in three late goals in those games (one after a joke red card for Huddlestone that was later rescinded) and got only two points when we would have hoped for seven. Yet it was his first three games, and ones in which our squad was in a state of flux. I just can't argue against what he's achieved, so far.

 

Redknapp wasn't a tactical fool, but I think much of his success was about giving the onus to the players, giving them more freedom to do what they want and knowing how to motivate each of them. This really suited VDV and Adebayor, in particular, but put a lot of pressure on the water-carriers. There were a handful of games, particularly after Xmas, where it seemed painfully obvious what adjustments/substitutions needed to be made, yet they weren't happening, and we were losing and drawing games because of it. AVB has clearly been more focused on getting the players to press, which was what we were saying all last season.

 

The Ade stuff is difficult, because his whole season has been a mindfuck. First we have the incredibly drawn-out transfer, during which he hadn't apparently kept himself fit, then Defoe starts playing better, then the ANC and that mess. I much prefer Adebayor for his impact on our general play, but he's always been hit-and-miss on finishing and touch. Hopefully Sunday will be the catalyst for his season (and he doesn't get sent off again, FFS).

 

I'd like Laudrup, but you can't have everyone, and I just hope that AVB is the real thing. Levy would clearly love to find another Wenger, and have a coach who can get the whole club playing a certain way. He'd like to have an entirely home-grown team (for the cash, naturally), and we're getting there - more than half the team that finished the West Ham match have been with us since they were teenagers. The thinking is that AVB as coach is a good fit for bringing those players through. I'm not sure if Pardew is, but until you get your academy upgraded I guess the chances are slimmer.

[Jack Flash]

As for Pards and Rodgers, well I spent a fair bit of time on the West Ham board this last seven days, and more than one person referred to Pardew as a fraud.

 

http://i53.tinypic.com/solf6o.gif

[Stuy_O]

Aye noticed Spurs are 3rd, shite them.

[The College Dropout]

Thing is, AVB has come in and replaced a very popular and to be honest, successful Spurs manager, and has also lost some decent players from that era, yet has them probably just out performing Redknapp's side, and all in his first season too. Tactically he's well ahead of his predecessor and has more about him. They are more boring the watch under him and far more lets say, pragmatic, but they are effective and creative, certainly enough to win games regardless of the opposition. If he gets into the CL, the way Spurs are ran money wise, I can see him improving them even further and perhaps even replacing Arsenal as a CL certainty.

 

Dembele, Sigurdsson & Dempsey for Modric money was good business. Plus Vertoghnen. With Caulker and the fullback with Prem experience. They are a better side this year imo but are in more or less the same position as last year. Which tbh was a good job. Without the Redknapp media circus they would've finished 3rd last season and they should finish 3rd this season too.

 

I just don't understand how Redknapp is crap and AVB is brilliant that some people think despite similar results. AVB maybe better in the long-term, he likes youth and rotation more but atm he's not shown much in the PL to show he's better than Redknapp. I think the rotation will mean they will be strong in the cups this year and next though.

[Mole_Toonfan]

AVB has won as many European trophies as Redknapp has won trophies and he's not even 35 years old, he's comfortably better than Redknapp.

 

Soon he will get the credit he deserves and that Chelsea mistake will be just a memory in the back log of trophies.

[The College Dropout]

Good reply.

 

Think for me the bottom line with AVB is that Spurs aren't playing like I expect a Spurs side to play. You forget at the start of the season there were moments the supporters had started turning on his over organised and steady approach. Then he didn't play Adebayor for ages and played Defoe alone upfront (seems to have destroyed Ade's mind). Spurs would be the ideal club for Laudrup.

 

Cheers. Didn't mean to jump down your throat, but I've read some extraordinary drivel on RAWK/Arsenalmania etc about us, and this is a far better forum to talk about it .

 

Yeah, there is definitely a split among Spurs supporters on our style of play. We'd like to be more expansive, but it's difficult to argue when we're getting the results. In the first three games we didn't, and that's when we were really worried. Some still are, though I'm pretty sure they're a small minority. We let in three late goals in those games (one after a joke red card for Huddlestone that was later rescinded) and got only two points when we would have hoped for seven. Yet it was his first three games, and ones in which our squad was in a state of flux. I just can't argue against what he's achieved, so far.

 

Redknapp wasn't a tactical fool, but I think much of his success was about giving the onus to the players, giving them more freedom to do what they want and knowing how to motivate each of them. This really suited VDV and Adebayor, in particular, but put a lot of pressure on the water-carriers. There were a handful of games, particularly after Xmas, where it seemed painfully obvious what adjustments/substitutions needed to be made, yet they weren't happening, and we were losing and drawing games because of it. AVB has clearly been more focused on getting the players to press, which was what we were saying all last season.

 

The Ade stuff is difficult, because his whole season has been a mindfuck. First we have the incredibly drawn-out transfer, during which he hadn't apparently kept himself fit, then Defoe starts playing better, then the ANC and that mess. I much prefer Adebayor for his impact on our general play, but he's always been hit-and-miss on finishing and touch. Hopefully Sunday will be the catalyst for his season (and he doesn't get sent off again, FFS).

 

I'd like Laudrup, but you can't have everyone, and I just hope that AVB is the real thing. Levy would clearly love to find another Wenger, and have a coach who can get the whole club playing a certain way. He'd like to have an entirely home-grown team (for the cash, naturally), and we're getting there - more than half the team that finished the West Ham match have been with us since they were teenagers. The thinking is that AVB as coach is a good fit for bringing those players through. I'm not sure if Pardew is, but until you get your academy upgraded I guess the chances are slimmer.

 

 

Fully agree with everything you've said.

 

Harry and Pards are similar in the sense they're good man managers. Except Pardew is probably better in that aspect as he gets the whole squad going where as Harry has his 13 or so he trusts and the rest rarely play (see the Everton lad). Harry gives the creatives more freedom though. AVB is more structured, sometimes it works like with Lennon receiving the ball on the run more.. sometimes it doesn't see: Adebayor.

 

 

Why doesn't AVB start BAE? He's a better footballer than Naughton totally. I do think AVB's personality works better on younger players with less ego as seen at Chelsea. Which is good for Spurs.

[The College Dropout]

AVB has won as many European trophies as Redknapp has won trophies and he's not even 35 years old, he's comfortably better than Redknapp.

 

Soon he will get the credit he deserves and that Chelsea mistake will be just a memory in the back log of trophies.

 

So did Juande Ramos. Redknapp took that exact side the opposite position in the league.

 

AVB hasn't done any better at Spurs than Harry did. Jury's still out for me. No doubt he will learn and improve. But people going "look how great AVB is" are being too quick.The same people didn't credit Redknapp for doing the exact same thing.

[Hanshithispantz]

Genuine question, are you fucking schizophrenic?

[leffe186]

...Why doesn't AVB start BAE? He's a better footballer than Naughton totally. I do think AVB's personality works better on younger players with less ego as seen at Chelsea. Which is good for Spurs.

 

I'm not sure. I presume that he's trying to ease him back in after his injury, which was pretty awkward. The thing is, it's not just that he's a better footballer than Naughton (after all, Vertonghen actually played LB on Monday) - BAE is our only left back. Vertonghen and Naughton have been doing a job, but it's obvious they're both out of position.

 

It's possible that BAE is not doing what AVB is asking of him in training, but I think it's more likely that AVB really is just being cautious. I think that Vertonghen was started at least in part because we expected a barrage of long balls. I'd expect to see BAE play on Sunday.

[The College Dropout]

I'm consistent and realistically optimistic. AVB hasn't shown himself to be as good as some claim. Same can be said for Cisse and HBA.

[The College Dropout]

...Why doesn't AVB start BAE? He's a better footballer than Naughton totally. I do think AVB's personality works better on younger players with less ego as seen at Chelsea. Which is good for Spurs.

 

I'm not sure. I presume that he's trying to ease him back in after his injury, which was pretty awkward. The thing is, it's not just that he's a better footballer than Naughton (after all, Vertonghen actually played LB on Monday) - BAE is our only left back. Vertonghen and Naughton have been doing a job, but it's obvious they're both out of position.

 

It's possible that BAE is not doing what AVB is asking of him in training, but I think it's more likely that AVB really is just being cautious. I think that Vertonghen was started at least in part because we expected a barrage of long balls. I'd expect to see BAE play on Sunday.

 

To me, it looks like AVB is perfectly happy playing Naughton and the Belgium lad at LB and will continue doing so. Everytime I watch you it's one of them starting and I think that's how AVB wants it. Don't understand it myself. The other two look out of position like you say. Naughton might be a better defender than your current RB mind.

[TaylorJ_01]

I'm consistent and realistically optimistic. AVB hasn't shown himself to be as good as some claim. Same can be said for Cisse and HBA.

 

http://i.imgur.com/JZG0eMW.png

[Dave]

[Parky]

Thing is, AVB has come in and replaced a very popular and to be honest, successful Spurs manager, and has also lost some decent players from that era, yet has them probably just out performing Redknapp's side, and all in his first season too. Tactically he's well ahead of his predecessor and has more about him. They are more boring the watch under him and far more lets say, pragmatic, but they are effective and creative, certainly enough to win games regardless of the opposition. If he gets into the CL, the way Spurs are ran money wise, I can see him improving them even further and perhaps even replacing Arsenal as a CL certainty.

 

Dembele, Sigurdsson & Dempsey for Modric money was good business. Plus Vertoghnen. With Caulker and the fullback with Prem experience. They are a better side this year imo but are in more or less the same position as last year. Which tbh was a good job. Without the Redknapp media circus they would've finished 3rd last season and they should finish 3rd this season too.

 

I just don't understand how Redknapp is crap and AVB is brilliant that some people think despite similar results. AVB maybe better in the long-term, he likes youth and rotation more but atm he's not shown much in the PL to show he's better than Redknapp. I think the rotation will mean they will be strong in the cups this year and next though.

 

All 3 of them are shite tho. Dempsey is past it. Siggy will go down as a half season wonder and Dembele fiddles around too much on the ball and then passes it to the least dangerous player.

[ponsaelius]

I'm consistent and realistically optimistic. AVB hasn't shown himself to be as good as some claim. Same can be said for Cisse and HBA.

 

http://i.imgur.com/JZG0eMW.png

 

[alexf]

I assume this has been posted somewhere but couldn't see it.

 

Schneiderlin thanks Pardew for urging defensive focus

The 23-year-old has the most tackles in the Premier League this term and interceptions of anyone in the top five European leagues to his name, and says his former boss is behind it

 

"He was the one saying to me to improve on my defensive skills," he told The Daily Echo.

 

"He was the one who was telling me 'come on, you need more tackling.' So, thanks go to him and his words every day saying that to me."

 

with this and other quotes recently I feel we need a Pards equivalent to the "we won the passing"

[Guest Dontooner]

Harry team's play possession football in build up to attacks and AVB is more like Mourinho that likes to play on the counter. (Although Mourinho has much more to his game)

 

Possession Football uses Traditional CF's such as Ade much better, with counter attacking team's its no wonder Defoe is performing like he does.

 

Its just the style of play that is bringing out the best in the players, just look at how Chelsea is so much more cautious and under performing under Rafa when Di matteo had them playing much more feel flowing football but was tactically more naive.

 

Tbh AVB is tactically a much better manager than Harry. When Spurs Broke down last season, it wasnt a case like us when they were under performing and were put on the back burner by the teams they were playing with.

Spurs were playing well with possession but found it hard to score goals and leak some silly goals as well.

It was more down to Harry tactically been too one dimensional and had  less up his sleeves.

Top Managers play possession and counter attacking football in different matches, Tactically winning in those matches are the key to the constant results.

Just use Madrid as a example , played dominating football to Man United and had to play counter attacking football to Barcelona. The bottom line was both style and tactics were performed at a very high level by the same coach, it no wonder he is winning things.

 

This is where Pardew is way behind all the coaches being mentioned , he tactics are aweful and his decisions are not incisive and often debatable.

Good managers make decisions that might make you sick but shut you up later with the results from performances. Usually those decisions are base on their preferences on the style of the team and not on the loyalty of the players.

 

AVB has potential and is only 35, he looks like he is making some good decisions , just needs to work on how to break down teams when they sit deep.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Harry's teams don't really have a style do they? He really just tells the players to go out and play.

[The College Dropout]

Harry's teams don't really have a style do they? He really just tells the players to go out and play.

 

But they do. It's focused around letting the better players do their thing. VDV in spaces to pass great balls and shoot, Ade to hold up and bring others in, Bale-Lennon use their pace. BAE-Walker natural overlap etc. Parker et al. hold it all together. It is more "free" but the style of Harry's Spurs was distinct.

 

His Spurs where better at home because they where encouraged to do their thing. AVB is more rigid, so they've sometimes looked toothless at home because there's more parameters. Away they're better than at home because they're built to counter.

[The College Dropout]

Harry team's play possession football in build up to attacks and AVB is more like Mourinho that likes to play on the counter. (Although Mourinho has much more to his game)

 

Possession Football uses Traditional CF's such as Ade much better, with counter attacking team's its no wonder Defoe is performing like he does.

 

Its just the style of play that is bringing out the best in the players, just look at how Chelsea is so much more cautious and under performing under Rafa when Di matteo had them playing much more feel flowing football but was tactically more naive.

 

Tbh AVB is tactically a much better manager than Harry. When Spurs Broke down last season, it wasnt a case like us when they were under performing and were put on the back burner by the teams they were playing with.

Spurs were playing well with possession but found it hard to score goals and leak some silly goals as well.

It was more down to Harry tactically been too one dimensional and had  less up his sleeves.

Top Managers play possession and counter attacking football in different matches, Tactically winning in those matches are the key to the constant results.

Just use Madrid as a example , played dominating football to Man United and had to play counter attacking football to Barcelona. The bottom line was both style and tactics were performed at a very high level by the same coach, it no wonder he is winning things.

 

This is where Pardew is way behind all the coaches being mentioned , he tactics are aweful and his decisions are not incisive and often debatable.

Good managers make decisions that might make you sick but shut you up later with the results from performances. Usually those decisions are base on their preferences on the style of the team and not on the loyalty of the players.

 

AVB has potential and is only 35, he looks like he is making some good decisions , just needs to work on how to break down teams when they sit deep.

 

Difference for me is, they're not any better than last season. I think the England thing affected Spurs but I do agree they needed something else from Harry in that period that he can and will never possess. They did finish 4th though.

 

Harry does adapt to games and teams, we've seen that at QPR. But the QPR team atm can't play on the front foot.

 

Spurs have won the same amount of games at home as us. They've had a fair few draws at home. Being a counter attacking side has meant means they can be toothless a bit at home. I don't think that's any better than Harry's "strict" possession based approach.

 

I do agree that Harry's style suited Ade much more than Defoe for the reasons you described though.

 

I believe R Madrid are over reliant on counter-attacking. If they go behind to a top side, they'll struggle. Mourinho was out-foxed by SAF. It was not a bad result but it wasn't good for them. Slight advantage to Fergie.

 

 

AVB does have time to learn but you say "he just needs to learn how to break teams down when they sit deep" but their style is against that. It will be very difficult.

 

 

I don't think Pardew is as bad as is made out. He misses things we see but strikes where we don't but doesn't get the credit. His subs are poor though. He's better than both Harry/AVB at manahing squads morale.