Mole_Toonfan Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 not every team in the league has a first class first 11 and bench, its utterly unrealistic Of course it is. But is it unrealistic to have 2 or 3 players in the squad with proven track records of hitting double figures in a season? All of those chasing top 7 do. Liverpool don't and Everton probably have 2 anyway as i have said before the reason there is so few goals around the squad is how we are set up and how many chances we actually create due to how deep we are. You can't expect to score goals with how little we create. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Mucha Neville Duffy Oviedo Barkley Jelavic Naismith Everton's bench yesterday. There's simply no truth in this vast depth that the clubs in the top half supposedly possess. Obviously they have more goals from midfield - their midfield is encouraged to get in the opposition box. We are apparently not allowed more than three players at any stage of an attack. Was going to post that earlier, it is easily arguable that we have a squad on par with Evertons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 It's absolutely no doubt that Pardew should be getting better out of the players he's got available. The Europa league may have had an effect to a degree, but that doesn't excuse the baffling lack of ability to even perform the basics at times and that's a continuing worry. Nor does it excuse his strange tactics and one dimensional approach to games. The players seem ok with him but it's very debatable wether he can truly take us forward next season. One big weakness for me is the way Pardew has responded to criticism. When he first came he always seemed to portray himself decent in the press with what he said - it's like now he's gone the total opposite. No doubt in my mind that getting us 5th made him far cockier. Undoubtedly the squad was two thin initially to compete with the bloated fixture list and combine that with the aforementioned issues it was a horrible mixture. His increasingly tiresome interviews are wearing thin and they hardly help matters. The Sunderland match was basically our season in microcosm. Despite the worries growing over Pardew, the players have done little to help themselves imho. The likes of Gutierrez & Tiote have been consistently poor, whilst other players have drifted in and out. Professional and experienced players who should be performing better than they are, no matter what formation we use. No one really seems to want to take responsibility on the pitch. I predicted 10th at the start of the campaign. I thought we greatly overachieved last season, and with the squad we had with more fixtures I knew it would quite a difficult slog. However I never anticipated a season long spectacle of bland football and shocking away form, and most defiantly not fighting for survival. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 I'd love for us to play somewhere between Swansea and Barca, but I'd settle for a bit of pass and move and venturing out of our own area with the ball on the floor, utilising a decent midfield rather than hoofing it to a midget and watching it come back for 70 minutes a game. I want to see us go after a game and not nervously try and cling on to a slender 1-0 for 80-odd minutes! Norwich and Wba play well on the deck with very limited sides. Don't even need Swansea as a yardstick tbh - they are lightyears ahead of us in their general play. Totally agree, was just referencing a quote by Ronaldo. There aren't that many in the league that play hit and hope tbh, it's just a panic mode we seem to go into every match at some point and Pardew should be screaming at them to keep it on the deck but he seems happy for us to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 not every team in the league has a first class first 11 and bench, its utterly unrealistic Of course it is. But is it unrealistic to have 2 or 3 players in the squad with proven track records of hitting double figures in a season? All of those chasing top 7 do. Who in that Everton squad hits double figures a season? currently only Fellaini on 11? Swansea? West Brom? That a completely invalid point. Its not even remotely true. Fellaini, Jelavic and Anichebe will all do it this season. In the league alone they've got 6 players on 5 goals or more. We've got 2. Never mentioned Swansea's scorers but West Brom have Lukaku, Long and Odemwingie. All 3 would stroll into our matchday 18. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 The players are playing the managers tactics, the managers formations, the manager picks the team, he makes the subs. We play shit football and it doesn't suit the players we have. The formation is not suited to the players we have. The manager picks players who shouldn't be in the team. The manager brings on a sub who is dreadful 99% of the time. Blaming the players is warranted somewhat. But Pardew is mainly to blame for all that, to try to suggest otherwise is mental imo. The proof is staring us in the face, we see it every time we play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 is it unrealistic to have 2 or 3 players in the squad with proven track records of hitting double figures in a season? All of those chasing top 7 do. Liverpool don't They do, mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Professional and experienced players who should be performing better than they are, no matter what formation we use. No one really seems to want to take responsibility on the pitch. Nothing to do with formations there is more to do with football than formations..... Its due to how little movement and how the players are completely and utterly shackled by Pardew's tactics. We never have more than a couple of a players in the box at a time, that is the reason we struggle to create we are always too deep and trying to cross to two players who have no aerial power in the box and just watching the ball come back at us time and again. http://i71.servimg.com/u/f71/16/55/20/10/nufc10.png Out of all that playing in our own half is the key reason why we struggle to create and score goals, the formation is irrelevant what is relevant how ever is the tactics and mentality of the manager. Everton and Liverpool hardly have bigger and stronger squads but what they do have vastly superior coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Professional and experienced players who should be performing better than they are, no matter what formation we use. No one really seems to want to take responsibility on the pitch. Nothing to do with formations there is more to do with football than formations..... Its due to how little movement and how the players are completely and utterly shackled by Pardew's tactics. We never have more than a couple of a players in the box at a time, that is the reason we struggle to create we are always too deep and trying to cross to two players who have no aerial power in the box and just watching the ball come back at us time and again. http://i71.servimg.com/u/f71/16/55/20/10/nufc10.png Out of all that playing in our own half is the key reason why we struggle to create and score goals, the formation is irrelevant what is relevant how ever is the tactics and mentality of the manager. Everton and Liverpool hardly have bigger and stronger squads but what they do have vastly superior coaches. I know that man and I agree with you. What i'm basically saying that no-one is exempt from blame. But as the games pass it's becoming more and more on the managers head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Professional and experienced players who should be performing better than they are, no matter what formation we use. No one really seems to want to take responsibility on the pitch. Nothing to do with formations there is more to do with football than formations..... Its due to how little movement and how the players are completely and utterly shackled by Pardew's tactics. We never have more than a couple of a players in the box at a time, that is the reason we struggle to create we are always too deep and trying to cross to two players who have no aerial power in the box and just watching the ball come back at us time and again. http://i71.servimg.com/u/f71/16/55/20/10/nufc10.png Out of all that playing in our own half is the key reason why we struggle to create and score goals, the formation is irrelevant what is relevant how ever is the tactics and mentality of the manager. Everton and Liverpool hardly have bigger and stronger squads but what they do have vastly superior coaches. I know that man and I agree with you. Exactly what I've been saying all week, there's no movement, no outlet, Pardew screams at the players to get back, there's nothing they can do but hoof it forward. It's the manager who is responsible for the lacklustre displays cuz there's nothing they're allowed to do! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 My bad, i agree that no one is exempt. From the board right down to the players but i do think a big reason the players have underperformed is because of the manager. Just some of the comments on here make me think even if we had a quality manager we would struggle to crack the top 8 which isn't the case IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 The Liverpool bench for today was Jones, Coates, Skrtel, Shelvey, Coady, Assaidi and Sturridge. Out of that lot I'd take Sturridge as somebody who can and did change the game, the others are nothing special. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 My bad, i agree that no one is exempt. From the board right down to the players but i do think a big reason the players have underperformed is because of the manager. Just some of the comments on here make me think even if we had a quality manager we would struggle to crack the top 8 which isn't the case IMO. Yeh, he's got a lot to answer for anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 not every team in the league has a first class first 11 and bench, its utterly unrealistic Of course it is. But is it unrealistic to have 2 or 3 players in the squad with proven track records of hitting double figures in a season? All of those chasing top 7 do. Who in that Everton squad hits double figures a season? currently only Fellaini on 11? Swansea? West Brom? That a completely invalid point. Its not even remotely true. Fellaini, Jelavic and Anichebe will all do it this season. In the league alone they've got 6 players on 5 goals or more. We've got 2. Jelavic/Anichibe on 6/7 goals each. Your sure they will each get 3/4 goals more before the end of the season?! Honestly man You've seen jelavic this season right? The reason we don't have any other goalscorers is that we play with one up front completely isolated, and hump long balls up to him. Never mentioned Swansea's scorers but West Brom have Lukaku, Long and Odemwingie. All 3 would stroll into our matchday 18. You mentioned "teams chasing the top 7" So they are in there. VERY debateable if they would stroll into our matchday eleven at all., Lukaku easily would. The other two are on the bench at worst. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza ladra Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Odemwingie or Shola? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Odemwingie can run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Lukaku easily would. The other two are on the bench at worst. Well everyone knows our forward depth is pitiful so i will agree with that, will still have good enough players to be contending with Everton and Liverpool with a better coach though. But i'm quite aware we probably need 3 or 4 more to have strength in depth across the board. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 not every team in the league has a first class first 11 and bench, its utterly unrealistic Of course it is. But is it unrealistic to have 2 or 3 players in the squad with proven track records of hitting double figures in a season? All of those chasing top 7 do. Who in that Everton squad hits double figures a season? currently only Fellaini on 11? Swansea? West Brom? That a completely invalid point. Its not even remotely true. Fellaini, Jelavic and Anichebe will all do it this season. In the league alone they've got 6 players on 5 goals or more. We've got 2. Jelavic/Anichibe on 6/7 goals each. Your sure they will each get 3/4 goals more before the end of the season?! Honestly man You've seen jelavic this season right? The reason we don't have any other goalscorers is that we play with one up front completely isolated, and hump long balls up to him. Never mentioned Swansea's scorers but West Brom have Lukaku, Long and Odemwingie. All 3 would stroll into our matchday 18. You mentioned "teams chasing the top 7" So they are in there. VERY debateable if they would stroll into our matchday eleven at all., Lukaku easily would. The other two are on the bench at worst. He probably would. But then equally Colo/Debuchy/Mbiwa/Santon/Cabaye/Cisse/HBA/Sissoko would stroll into theres. Its an irrelevance. The point is that we have players capable of scoring goals, but we do not utilise them. no goals from a corner all season?! how many does that account for? Crossed free kicks? We only have 1 player (Taylor) is remotely good or dominant in the air in fairness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Honestly our midfield is incapable of scoring enough goals. Anyone thinking that's totally down to the manager are barking up the wrong tree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 not every team in the league has a first class first 11 and bench, its utterly unrealistic Of course it is. But is it unrealistic to have 2 or 3 players in the squad with proven track records of hitting double figures in a season? All of those chasing top 7 do. Who in that Everton squad hits double figures a season? currently only Fellaini on 11? Swansea? West Brom? That a completely invalid point. Its not even remotely true. Fellaini, Jelavic and Anichebe will all do it this season. In the league alone they've got 6 players on 5 goals or more. We've got 2. Jelavic/Anichibe on 6/7 goals each. Your sure they will each get 3/4 goals more before the end of the season?! Honestly man You've seen jelavic this season right? The reason we don't have any other goalscorers is that we play with one up front completely isolated, and hump long balls up to him. Never mentioned Swansea's scorers but West Brom have Lukaku, Long and Odemwingie. All 3 would stroll into our matchday 18. You mentioned "teams chasing the top 7" So they are in there. VERY debateable if they would stroll into our matchday eleven at all., Lukaku easily would. The other two are on the bench at worst. He probably would. But then equally Colo/Debuchy/Mbiwa/Santon/Cabaye/Cisse/HBA/Sissoko would stroll into theres. Its an irrelevance. The point is that we have players capable of scoring goals, but we do not utilise them. no goals from a corner all season?! how many does that account for? Crossed free kicks? We only have 1 player (Taylor) is remotely good or dominant in the air in fairness. Really? didn't evra score from a corner for Man Utd? It's our rank set pieces, not the personnel. Because he is an aggressive attacker of the ball in those situations. Nowt to do with height. Our set-pieces are gash though. Cabaye's in particular. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Honestly our midfield is incapable of scoring enough goals. Anyone thinking that's totally down to the manager are barking up the wrong tree. You keep saying this sort of thing, I think we've got enough goals in our team to be well clear of 16th actually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 not every team in the league has a first class first 11 and bench, its utterly unrealistic Of course it is. But is it unrealistic to have 2 or 3 players in the squad with proven track records of hitting double figures in a season? All of those chasing top 7 do. Who in that Everton squad hits double figures a season? currently only Fellaini on 11? Swansea? West Brom? That a completely invalid point. Its not even remotely true. Fellaini, Jelavic and Anichebe will all do it this season. In the league alone they've got 6 players on 5 goals or more. We've got 2. Jelavic/Anichibe on 6/7 goals each. Your sure they will each get 3/4 goals more before the end of the season?! Honestly man You've seen jelavic this season right? The reason we don't have any other goalscorers is that we play with one up front completely isolated, and hump long balls up to him. Never mentioned Swansea's scorers but West Brom have Lukaku, Long and Odemwingie. All 3 would stroll into our matchday 18. You mentioned "teams chasing the top 7" So they are in there. VERY debateable if they would stroll into our matchday eleven at all., Lukaku easily would. The other two are on the bench at worst. He probably would. But then equally Colo/Debuchy/Mbiwa/Santon/Cabaye/Cisse/HBA/Sissoko would stroll into theres. Its an irrelevance. The point is that we have players capable of scoring goals, but we do not utilise them. no goals from a corner all season?! how many does that account for? Crossed free kicks? We only have 1 player (Taylor) is remotely good or dominant in the air in fairness. Really? didn't evra score from a corner for Man Utd? It's our rank set pieces, not the personnel. It's very easy to say that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Honestly our midfield is incapable of scoring enough goals. Anyone thinking that's totally down to the manager are barking up the wrong tree. What? So Cabaye can't score goals? HBA/Sissoko/Gouffran, all can't score goals? Cabaye has scored 6 goals in open play in 2 seasons for us ffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Honestly our midfield is incapable of scoring enough goals. Anyone thinking that's totally down to the manager are barking up the wrong tree. You keep saying this sort of thing, I think we've got enough goals in our team to be well clear of 16th actually. We haven't when we have an open door in our rear end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 The corner statistic is becoming ridiculous now like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts