Alan Pardew

[Ronaldo]

Don't say anything. Just look at our bench and parts of the starting Xl and concede that your judgement's off a bit.

 

I'd have to say something to do that. But lets go through the squad if we must....

 

Krul - Dutch international

Debuchy - FR int

Mbiwa - FR int

Santon - ITA int

Colo - ARG int

Cabaye - FR Int

Anita - Dutch Int

HBA - FR int

Jonas - Arg int

Sissoko -FR int

Cisse - Senegal Int

 

 

Now thats a snapshot of players. I'll concede the likes of Shola/Willo/Perch/simpson etc aren't top players but not every team has a raft of top players waiting to come on. Its been done to death but look at Swansea/Wba/Anyone up to Liverpool who'd managers would kill for a squad like ours.

 

Take away Anita and Jonas and you're left with 9 good players including only one goalscorer.

 

I don't like doing this in this particular thread because any second one of the usual suspects will turn up, assume it's a defence of Pardew and the thread goes to s*** again. I'm just a little fed up of all the pretense. When the next manager comes in and doesn't have them playing like something between Swansea and Barcelona it'll all be his fault, no doubt.

 

9 good players in an 11 man team?! Thats pretty good.

 

Also the bold bit, why on earth do you have to polarise it that much? not one person has said that, not one. People just don't want the fucking eye gougingly bad shite we are served up now. If what was posted about the Team Meeting fall out is true, which is plausible, it all points one way

 

It's not pretty good when it represents the whole squad.

 

 

[Wullie]

There isn't a squad outside Manchester/ Chelsea that doesn't have a glaring weakness somewhere or other.  For all the talk of only having Shola and Cisse for example,  our striking options over the entire season have been miles better than,  for example,  Everton and even Spurs.

[durhamunigeordie]

There isn't a squad outside Manchester/ Chelsea that doesn't have a glaring weakness somewhere or other.  For all the talk of only having Shola and Cisse for example,  our striking options over the entire season have been miles better than,  for example,  Everton and even Spurs.

 

Everton have Anichebe, Jelavic and Mirallas - we have Cisse and Shola now Ba is gone.

 

EDIT - guess we have Gouffran as well. Still it's arguable which is the better trio and when your throw in Fellaini who was playing up front a fair bit.

 

 

[Ronaldo]

There isn't a squad outside Manchester/ Chelsea that doesn't have a glaring weakness somewhere or other.  For all the talk of only having Shola and Cisse for example,  our striking options over the entire season have been miles better than,  for example,  Everton and even Spurs.

 

Everton and Spurs have goals in their midfield and defence. Their top scorers come from midfield and both have more goals than Shola and Cisse together.

[Mick]

 

 

It's not pretty good when it represents the whole squad.

 

 

 

We've dropped points at home to Villa, did they have a better 1st 11 or squad than us?  We dropped points home and away to Reading, do they?  How about the mackems home and away?  West Ham at home, Brighton away, Stoke away, Swansea at home, Southampton away, Fulham away?

 

I could probably go on.

[Ronaldo]

not every team in the league has a first class first 11 and bench, its utterly unrealistic

 

Of course it is. But is it unrealistic to have 2 or 3 players in the squad with proven track records of hitting double figures in a season? All of those chasing top 7 do.

[Parky]

I'd love for us to play somewhere between Swansea and Barca, but I'd settle for a bit of pass and move and venturing out of our own area with the ball on the floor, utilising a decent midfield rather than hoofing it to a midget and watching it come back for 70 minutes a game.

 

I want to see us go after a game and not nervously try and cling on to a slender 1-0 for 80-odd minutes!

 

Norwich and Wba play well on the deck with very limited sides. Don't even need Swansea as a yardstick tbh - they are lightyears ahead of us in their general play.

[Wullie]

Mucha

Neville

Duffy

Oviedo

Barkley

Jelavic

Naismith

 

Everton's bench yesterday.  There's simply no truth in this vast depth that the clubs in the top half supposedly possess.  Obviously they have more goals from midfield -  their midfield is encouraged to get in the opposition box.  We are  apparently not allowed more than three  players at any stage of an attack.

[Ronaldo]

 

 

It's not pretty good when it represents the whole squad.

 

 

 

We've dropped points at home to Villa, did they have a better 1st 11 or squad than us?  We dropped points home and away to Reading, do they?  How about the mackems home and away?  West Ham at home, Brighton away, Stoke away, Swansea at home, Southampton away, Fulham away?

 

I could probably go on.

 

I don't like doing this in this particular thread because any second one of the usual suspects will turn up, assume it's a defence of Pardew and the thread goes to shit again

 

Not happening, go away.

[Mick]

 

 

It's not pretty good when it represents the whole squad.

 

 

 

We've dropped points at home to Villa, did they have a better 1st 11 or squad than us?  We dropped points home and away to Reading, do they?  How about the mackems home and away?  West Ham at home, Brighton away, Stoke away, Swansea at home, Southampton away, Fulham away?

 

I could probably go on.

 

I don't like doing this in this particular thread because any second one of the usual suspects will turn up, assume it's a defence of Pardew and the thread goes to s*** again

 

Not happening, go away.

 

[Yorkie]

What's definition of a bad season?

 

It's all about context. Similarly to the discussion yesterday regarding "04-05 / 12-13, which was worse?" - it's difficult to define something like this because circumstances vary year on year.

 

However, I feel that this is the worst 'result' from a domestic campaign given the personnel available, since I've supported us. The relegation season was similar. Although it was flawed by personalities, there was bags of quality in that squad. 'On paper', it was one of the best squads that has ever been relegated from the Premier League, imo. That was proved by us losing several players from it, but still utterly humiliating the Championship.

 

Similarly this season - when you consider the talent at the manager's disposal - it's deplorable that we're not even in the top half - never mind part of a relegation battle all season. Our squad belongs in the top 6/7/8.

[Mole_Toonfan]

not every team in the league has a first class first 11 and bench, its utterly unrealistic

 

Of course it is. But is it unrealistic to have 2 or 3 players in the squad with proven track records of hitting double figures in a season? All of those chasing top 7 do.

 

Liverpool don't and Everton probably have 2 anyway as i have said before the reason there is so few goals around the squad is how we are set up and how many chances we actually create due to how deep we are.

 

You can't expect to score goals with how little we create.

[colinmk]

Mucha

Neville

Duffy

Oviedo

Barkley

Jelavic

Naismith

 

Everton's bench yesterday.  There's simply no truth in this vast depth that the clubs in the top half supposedly possess.  Obviously they have more goals from midfield -  their midfield is encouraged to get in the opposition box.  We are  apparently not allowed more than three  players at any stage of an attack.

 

Was going to post that earlier, it is easily arguable that we have a squad on par with Evertons.

[Stuy_O]

It's absolutely no doubt that Pardew should be getting better out of the players he's got available. The Europa league may have had an effect to a degree, but that doesn't excuse the baffling lack of ability to even perform the basics at times and that's a continuing worry. Nor does it excuse his strange tactics and one dimensional approach to games. The players seem ok with him but it's very debatable wether he can truly take us forward next season. One big weakness for me is the way Pardew has responded to criticism. When he first came he always seemed to portray himself decent in the press with what he said - it's like now he's gone the total opposite. No doubt in my mind that getting us 5th made him far cockier.

 

Undoubtedly the squad was two thin initially to compete with the bloated fixture list and combine that with the aforementioned issues it was a horrible mixture. His increasingly tiresome interviews are wearing thin and they hardly help matters. The Sunderland match was basically our season in microcosm.

 

Despite the worries growing over Pardew, the players have done little to help themselves imho. The likes of Gutierrez & Tiote have been consistently poor, whilst other players have drifted in and out. Professional and experienced players who should be performing better than they are, no matter what formation we use. No one really seems to want to take responsibility on the pitch.

 

I predicted 10th at the start of the campaign. I thought we greatly overachieved last season, and with the squad we had with more fixtures I knew it would quite a difficult slog. However I never anticipated a season long spectacle of bland football and shocking away form, and most defiantly not fighting for survival.

 

 

[Mattoon]

I'd love for us to play somewhere between Swansea and Barca, but I'd settle for a bit of pass and move and venturing out of our own area with the ball on the floor, utilising a decent midfield rather than hoofing it to a midget and watching it come back for 70 minutes a game.

 

I want to see us go after a game and not nervously try and cling on to a slender 1-0 for 80-odd minutes!

 

Norwich and Wba play well on the deck with very limited sides. Don't even need Swansea as a yardstick tbh - they are lightyears ahead of us in their general play.

 

Totally agree, was just referencing a quote by Ronaldo. There aren't that many in the league that play hit and hope tbh, it's just a panic mode we seem to go into every match at some point and Pardew should be screaming at them to keep it on the deck but he seems happy for us to do it.

[Ronaldo]

not every team in the league has a first class first 11 and bench, its utterly unrealistic

 

Of course it is. But is it unrealistic to have 2 or 3 players in the squad with proven track records of hitting double figures in a season? All of those chasing top 7 do.

 

Who in that Everton squad hits double figures a season? currently only Fellaini on 11? Swansea? West Brom?

 

That a completely invalid point. Its not even remotely true.

 

Fellaini, Jelavic and Anichebe will all do it this season. In the league alone they've got 6 players on 5 goals or more. We've got 2.

 

Never mentioned Swansea's scorers but West Brom have Lukaku, Long and Odemwingie. All 3 would stroll into our matchday 18.

[Guest bimpy474]

The players are playing the managers tactics, the managers formations, the manager picks the team, he makes the subs.

 

We play shit football and it doesn't suit the players we have. The formation is not suited to the players we have. The manager picks players who shouldn't be in the team. The manager brings on a sub who is dreadful 99% of the time.

 

Blaming the players is warranted somewhat. But Pardew is mainly to blame for all that, to try to suggest otherwise is mental imo. The proof is staring us in the face, we see it every time we play.

[Ronaldo]

is it unrealistic to have 2 or 3 players in the squad with proven track records of hitting double figures in a season? All of those chasing top 7 do.

 

Liverpool don't

 

They do, mate.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Professional and experienced players who should be performing better than they are, no matter what formation we use. No one really seems to want to take responsibility on the pitch.

 

Nothing to do with formations there is more to do with football than formations.....

 

Its due to how little movement and how the players are completely and utterly shackled by Pardew's tactics.

 

We never have more than a couple of a players in the box at a time, that is the reason we struggle to create we are always too deep and trying to cross to two players who have no aerial power in the box and just watching the ball come back at us time and again.

 

http://i71.servimg.com/u/f71/16/55/20/10/nufc10.png

 

Out of all that playing in our own half is the key reason why we struggle to create and score goals, the formation is irrelevant what is relevant how ever is the tactics and mentality of the manager.

 

Everton and Liverpool hardly have bigger and stronger squads but what they do have vastly superior coaches.

[Stuy_O]

Professional and experienced players who should be performing better than they are, no matter what formation we use. No one really seems to want to take responsibility on the pitch.

 

Nothing to do with formations there is more to do with football than formations.....

 

Its due to how little movement and how the players are completely and utterly shackled by Pardew's tactics.

 

We never have more than a couple of a players in the box at a time, that is the reason we struggle to create we are always too deep and trying to cross to two players who have no aerial power in the box and just watching the ball come back at us time and again.

 

http://i71.servimg.com/u/f71/16/55/20/10/nufc10.png

 

Out of all that playing in our own half is the key reason why we struggle to create and score goals, the formation is irrelevant what is relevant how ever is the tactics and mentality of the manager.

 

Everton and Liverpool hardly have bigger and stronger squads but what they do have vastly superior coaches.

 

I know that man and I agree with you.

 

What i'm basically saying that no-one is exempt from blame. But as the games pass it's becoming more and more on the managers head.

[Mattoon]

Professional and experienced players who should be performing better than they are, no matter what formation we use. No one really seems to want to take responsibility on the pitch.

 

Nothing to do with formations there is more to do with football than formations.....

 

Its due to how little movement and how the players are completely and utterly shackled by Pardew's tactics.

 

We never have more than a couple of a players in the box at a time, that is the reason we struggle to create we are always too deep and trying to cross to two players who have no aerial power in the box and just watching the ball come back at us time and again.

 

http://i71.servimg.com/u/f71/16/55/20/10/nufc10.png

 

Out of all that playing in our own half is the key reason why we struggle to create and score goals, the formation is irrelevant what is relevant how ever is the tactics and mentality of the manager.

 

Everton and Liverpool hardly have bigger and stronger squads but what they do have vastly superior coaches.

 

I know that man and I agree with you.

 

Exactly what I've been saying all week, there's no movement, no outlet, Pardew screams at the players to get back, there's nothing they can do but hoof it forward. It's the manager who is responsible for the lacklustre displays cuz there's nothing they're allowed to do!

[Mole_Toonfan]

My bad, i agree that no one is exempt. From the board right down to the players  but i do think a big reason the players have underperformed is because of the manager.

 

Just some of the comments on here make me think even if we had a quality manager we would struggle to crack the top 8 which isn't the case IMO.

[Mick]

The Liverpool bench for today was Jones, Coates, Skrtel, Shelvey, Coady, Assaidi and Sturridge.  Out of that lot I'd take Sturridge as somebody who can and did change the game, the others are nothing special.

[Stuy_O]

My bad, i agree that no one is exempt. From the board right down to the players  but i do think a big reason the players have underperformed is because of the manager.

 

Just some of the comments on here make me think even if we had a quality manager we would struggle to crack the top 8 which isn't the case IMO.

 

Yeh, he's got a lot to answer for anyway.

[Ronaldo]

not every team in the league has a first class first 11 and bench, its utterly unrealistic

 

Of course it is. But is it unrealistic to have 2 or 3 players in the squad with proven track records of hitting double figures in a season? All of those chasing top 7 do.

 

Who in that Everton squad hits double figures a season? currently only Fellaini on 11? Swansea? West Brom?

 

That a completely invalid point. Its not even remotely true.

 

Fellaini, Jelavic and Anichebe will all do it this season. In the league alone they've got 6 players on 5 goals or more. We've got 2. Jelavic/Anichibe on 6/7 goals each. Your sure they will each get 3/4 goals more before the end of the season?! Honestly man You've seen jelavic this season right?  The reason we don't have any other goalscorers is that we play with one up front completely isolated, and hump long balls up to him.

 

Never mentioned Swansea's scorers but West Brom have Lukaku, Long and Odemwingie. All 3 would stroll into our matchday 18.

You mentioned "teams chasing the top 7" So they are in there.  VERY debateable if they would stroll into our matchday eleven at all., 

 

 

Lukaku easily would. The other two are on the bench at worst.