colinmk Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I'm worried about our form too, but a lot of stuff that is a symptom of poor results, injuries, suspensions and a hangover from a brilliant season are being put down as permanent flaws IMO. The manager and the team have earned the time to turn things around. Don't agree with that. The way we are playing is permanent flaws imo, flaws that were pointed out last season when we were winning and flaws that are now exposed partly because of the thins you mention but also because our top players aren't having those moments of individual brilliance that happened so often last season. We have a fairly solid defence usually but that's about it, little to no movement going forward, far too many players either not aware of what they should be doing or not in suitable positions and also a tendency to start games very slowly. I agree that the suspensions, injuries etc haven't helped but there are fundamental problems on the field, problems that have been lurking for ages regardless of our position last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I have been reading a lot of stuff today that I can´t agree with for one bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I'm worried about our form too, but a lot of stuff that is a symptom of poor results, injuries, suspensions and a hangover from a brilliant season are being put down as permanent flaws IMO. The manager and the team have earned the time to turn things around. Don't agree with that. The way we are playing is permanent flaws imo, flaws that were pointed out last season when we were winning and flaws that are now exposed partly because of the thins you mention but also because our top players aren't having those moments of individual brilliance that happened so often last season. We have a fairly solid defence usually but that's about it, little to no movement going forward, far too many players either not aware of what they should be doing or not in suitable positions and also a tendency to start games very slowly. I agree that the suspensions, injuries etc haven't helped but there are fundamental problems on the field, problems that have been lurking for ages regardless of our position last season. So many excuses. You could see from game 1 that Pardew wasn´t interesting in playing "good football". And I agree. Even if we had a fantastic season last year I can´t agree that we was that good. We are not playing better football with our "star" players. We just have more individuality quality that makes us able to make wounder goals. Oh, the bad form for players like Cissé, Tioté, Cabaye etc etc can´t be a coincident. I think Pardew has A LOT to do with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Wish we had Martinez, done really well with Wigan considering the resources available to him. I like him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Wish we had Martinez, done really well with Wigan considering the resources available to him. I like him. I'm convinced the likes of Martinez, Jol, Laudrup etc would have us playing much better than we are at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe_next_year Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Wish we had Martinez, done really well with Wigan considering the resources available to him. I like him. I'm convinced the likes of Martinez, Jol, Laudrup etc would have us playing much better than we are at the moment. they probably would right now, but none of them would want to move a club who despite being given there best season in donkeys years, sacks their manager after a dozen sub standard performances. we need long term stability, not short term good football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malandro Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 http://www.ftbpro.com/xposts/toonbano/75010/we-can-t-sack-pardew-but-we-can-t-back-him-either?ref=fb_post&team=Newcastle Good read. And that description of Santon is excellent : Davide Santon has no left foot to speak of. This isn't a criticism of him, it's just a fact. So whenever he makes one of his highly impressive runs from deep into the opposition's final third, nothing is created at the end of it. He doesn't cross it, nor cut inside and shoot. His 40 yard run becomes pointless. It's way over the top that article, and the description of Santon is way too simplistic. More managers than Pardew have decided he's a LB. The problem is that we don't have anyone in midfield or fullback who can stretch the game. And we don't have any other fullbacks either. I'm worried about our form too, but a lot of stuff that is a symptom of poor results, injuries, suspensions and a hangover from a brilliant season are being put down as permanent flaws IMO. The manager and the team have earned the time to turn things around. That's true to an extent but the point stands, Santon's runs come to nowt because he's a right-footed player playing on the left. It's the same with Jonas who also (used to) makes promising runs with no end product. The left side of our team sums up the downside of the club's transfer policy. We wouldn't pay Enrique the market rate so he left for a club that would. We therefore needed a left back but bought a right back who has played a bit on the left because was available at a knock down price following a bad injury. When then sign a left midfielder who was also available on the cheap due to injury issues who has started about three games in a year and a half. The net result is we can't play 442 due to lack of end product and fluidity down the left - a problem we got round by playing 433. Unfortunately we can't seem to use that formation anymore in case BA gets pissed off and activates his release cause, which was the price we paid for getting yet another player on the cheap. Simplistic I know but I hope it illustrates the point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 http://www.ftbpro.com/xposts/toonbano/75010/we-can-t-sack-pardew-but-we-can-t-back-him-either?ref=fb_post&team=Newcastle Good read. And that description of Santon is excellent : Davide Santon has no left foot to speak of. This isn't a criticism of him, it's just a fact. So whenever he makes one of his highly impressive runs from deep into the opposition's final third, nothing is created at the end of it. He doesn't cross it, nor cut inside and shoot. His 40 yard run becomes pointless. It's way over the top that article, and the description of Santon is way too simplistic. More managers than Pardew have decided he's a LB. The problem is that we don't have anyone in midfield or fullback who can stretch the game. And we don't have any other fullbacks either. I'm worried about our form too, but a lot of stuff that is a symptom of poor results, injuries, suspensions and a hangover from a brilliant season are being put down as permanent flaws IMO. The manager and the team have earned the time to turn things around. That's true to an extent but the point stands, Santon's runs come to nowt because he's a right-footed player playing on the left. It's the same with Jonas who also (used to) makes promising runs with no end product. The left side of our team sums up the downside of the club's transfer policy. We wouldn't pay Enrique the market rate so he left for a club that would. We therefore needed a left back but bought a right back who has played a bit on the left because was available at a knock down price following a bad injury. When then sign a left midfielder who was also available on the cheap due to injury issues who has started about three games in a year and a half. The net result is we can't play 442 due to lack of end product and fluidity down the left - a problem we got round by playing 433. Unfortunately we can't seem to use that formation anymore in case BA gets p*ssed off and activates his release cause, which was the price we paid for getting yet another player on the cheap. Simplistic I know but I hope it illustrates the point. santon creates little for the same reason ben arfa creates little when he gets wide of his man, because there is fuck all happening in the middle, no midfielders cutting in behind, no split of forwards to front and back post, you can hit the bye line as much as you want, the opposition me even let you do it, if the mocvement in and around the box is poor or non existent then it's pointless. last season had santon swung a leg when cutting in he could/should have scored a couple, so good were the positions he'd cut into, this season with everything being so rigid the gap isn't there to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malandro Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Fair points. I would add that when you play 442 width is essential and having two right footers cutting in all the time is no good, and that Santon and Jonas both do the same job offensively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 http://www.ftbpro.com/xposts/toonbano/75010/we-can-t-sack-pardew-but-we-can-t-back-him-either?ref=fb_post&team=Newcastle Good read. And that description of Santon is excellent : Davide Santon has no left foot to speak of. This isn't a criticism of him, it's just a fact. So whenever he makes one of his highly impressive runs from deep into the opposition's final third, nothing is created at the end of it. He doesn't cross it, nor cut inside and shoot. His 40 yard run becomes pointless. It's way over the top that article, and the description of Santon is way too simplistic. More managers than Pardew have decided he's a LB. The problem is that we don't have anyone in midfield or fullback who can stretch the game. And we don't have any other fullbacks either. I'm worried about our form too, but a lot of stuff that is a symptom of poor results, injuries, suspensions and a hangover from a brilliant season are being put down as permanent flaws IMO. The manager and the team have earned the time to turn things around. That's true to an extent but the point stands, Santon's runs come to nowt because he's a right-footed player playing on the left. It's the same with Jonas who also (used to) makes promising runs with no end product. The left side of our team sums up the downside of the club's transfer policy. We wouldn't pay Enrique the market rate so he left for a club that would. We therefore needed a left back but bought a right back who has played a bit on the left because was available at a knock down price following a bad injury. When then sign a left midfielder who was also available on the cheap due to injury issues who has started about three games in a year and a half. The net result is we can't play 442 due to lack of end product and fluidity down the left - a problem we got round by playing 433. Unfortunately we can't seem to use that formation anymore in case BA gets p*ssed off and activates his release cause, which was the price we paid for getting yet another player on the cheap. Simplistic I know but I hope it illustrates the point. santon creates little for the same reason ben arfa creates little when he gets wide of his man, because there is fuck all happening in the middle, no midfielders cutting in behind, no split of forwards to front and back post, you can hit the bye line as much as you want, the opposition me even let you do it, if the mocvement in and around the box is poor or non existent then it's pointless. last season had santon swung a leg when cutting in he could/should have scored a couple, so good were the positions he'd cut into, this season with everything being so rigid the gap isn't there to do it. Should have more shots the positions he gets into. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 when jonas plays wide in a 4 he always does the full backs job anyway, like he did with enrique. what worries me at times with some on here is when the going gets tough.......442 with wingers hitting the byeline and getting balls in the box, works on footy manager (i guess), worked for keegan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 http://www.ftbpro.com/xposts/toonbano/75010/we-can-t-sack-pardew-but-we-can-t-back-him-either?ref=fb_post&team=Newcastle Good read. And that description of Santon is excellent : Davide Santon has no left foot to speak of. This isn't a criticism of him, it's just a fact. So whenever he makes one of his highly impressive runs from deep into the opposition's final third, nothing is created at the end of it. He doesn't cross it, nor cut inside and shoot. His 40 yard run becomes pointless. It's way over the top that article, and the description of Santon is way too simplistic. More managers than Pardew have decided he's a LB. The problem is that we don't have anyone in midfield or fullback who can stretch the game. And we don't have any other fullbacks either. I'm worried about our form too, but a lot of stuff that is a symptom of poor results, injuries, suspensions and a hangover from a brilliant season are being put down as permanent flaws IMO. The manager and the team have earned the time to turn things around. That's true to an extent but the point stands, Santon's runs come to nowt because he's a right-footed player playing on the left. It's the same with Jonas who also (used to) makes promising runs with no end product. The left side of our team sums up the downside of the club's transfer policy. We wouldn't pay Enrique the market rate so he left for a club that would. We therefore needed a left back but bought a right back who has played a bit on the left because was available at a knock down price following a bad injury. When then sign a left midfielder who was also available on the cheap due to injury issues who has started about three games in a year and a half. The net result is we can't play 442 due to lack of end product and fluidity down the left - a problem we got round by playing 433. Unfortunately we can't seem to use that formation anymore in case BA gets p*ssed off and activates his release cause, which was the price we paid for getting yet another player on the cheap. Simplistic I know but I hope it illustrates the point. santon creates little for the same reason ben arfa creates little when he gets wide of his man, because there is f*** all happening in the middle, no midfielders cutting in behind, no split of forwards to front and back post, you can hit the bye line as much as you want, the opposition me even let you do it, if the mocvement in and around the box is poor or non existent then it's pointless. last season had santon swung a leg when cutting in he could/should have scored a couple, so good were the positions he'd cut into, this season with everything being so rigid the gap isn't there to do it. Should have more shots the positions he gets into. sick of shouting, 'hit it, hit it' when he cut inside last season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 He obviously thinks we're so bloody stupid that we can watch an entire game and not know what formation the team are playing, and that we'll just believe what is demonstrably a blatant lie. Shut your gob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 He obviously thinks we're so bloody stupid that we can watch an entire game and not know what formation the team are playing, and that we'll just believe what is demonstrably a blatant lie. Shut your gob. got to be honest we tried to work out what formation it was as it certainly wasn't 4-4-2, a kind of 4-3-1(more advanced than the midfield on the right-1 behind the front man-1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 got to be honest we tried to work out what formation it was as it certainly wasn't 4-4-2, a kind of 4-3-1(more advanced than the midfield on the right-1 behind the front man-1. It looked 4-4-2 to me, at other times we were just as ragged as hell and had no shape at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 It was 4-4-2 to say it was anything else is complete bollocks. Except when as Mick says, it was ragged and shapeless. His setting up of the team at the moment plays into the hands of the opposition and he can't see it. Him not seeing it, is a worrying as feck too. Just because we had 26 shots....most of them from way outside the box, he seems to think that 4-4-2 is working. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 i probably just saw it as ragged, ceratinly didn't look like sammi was playing up with ba. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Simpson - Willo - Taylor - Santon Tiote Anita Ferguson HBA Sammy Ba or something to that effect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Simpson - Willo - Taylor - Santon Tiote Anita Ferguson HBA Sammy Ba or something to that effect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 i probably just saw it as ragged, ceratinly didn't look like sammi was playing up with ba. Are you in the same seat as last season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 1st 2 mins it looked 433 then it looked a mix between it and 442 and a shambles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 i probably just saw it as ragged, ceratinly didn't look like sammi was playing up with ba. Are you in the same seat as last season? aye, and yes it does face the pitch! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Simpson - Willo - Taylor - Santon Tiote Anita Ferguson HBA Sammy Ba or something to that effect. Anita was more advanced than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 aye, and yes it does face the pitch! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decky Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Just had a look at the fixtures, we're in for a rough holiday season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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