colinmk Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I wouldn't bring in a foreign manager right now, would have to be the summer. Just think that more often than not a foreign manager will need time to get into it and we'd probably have more of a chance of staying up with Pardew in charge for the rest of the season anyway. (talking about a manager with no experience of football in England btw not Martinez etc) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 So how long can we expect Pardew to need to implement a philosophy throughout the squad/club. He's been here a while now and we still look a totally different team from week to week IMO. Sometimes it's as though they don't even know what they're meant to be doing. Obviously our ludicrous recruitment policy doesn't help him, but can anyone honestly say we have an emerging style of note? I can't. I'd love to believe he's working on it but a bit more evidence would be nice. Thing is, we did have one last season. We had one in the first half of the season, and another in the second. Whatever team was put out, seemed to know what they were doing. We were pressing high up the pitch (led by Cabaye), and we were systematically breaking teams down on occasion. We were also pretty difficult to break down when we defended leads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I'm still astounded at the sheer vision and bravura of Swansea to just go and get Laudrup. Amazing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I'm still astounded at the sheer vision and bravura of Swansea to just go and get Laudrup. Amazing. Their chairman seems to have a smart head on him, he's gone out if his way to put the way the club should play football etc first instead of hiring any old person. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Hypothetically would people advocate sacking Pardew and appointing A. N. Other (of a decent calibre) if it came at the cost of no new recruits in January? I have to say I probably would. Yes because i'm convinced a decent manager would gets required out of the players to make sure we stay up and then go again in the summer. I have lost all confidence in Pardew to do anything without the purples on the pitch so he needs the likes of Cabaye, Taylor etc etc back and also Remy and a CB brought in That wouldn't be the case with any one decent as these players should not be anywhere near relegation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 It'll be interesting after the Norwich game in which I expect we'll be played off the park. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Just out of interest - how many clubs have a particular style of play/philosophy? I agree that Pardew's lack of work on attacking play and tactical awareness is being shown up at the moment, but I do feel that the whole philosophy is a bit woolly and possibly being overplayed. I fully expect to be torn apart for this by the way. A 'particular style of play' to me refers more how easily and well players of lesser ability can slot into the team and do more than simply make up the numbers. Lots of teams can do this effectively, by which I mean they don't instantly turn to the turgid 'kick the ball as far as possible from our goal', ultra-negative play we've seen so regularly this season and even parts of last. Pardew's philosophy to date seems to be that if all of our best players aren't available then we simply can't do the same things, and I don't buy that. Some have excused it by saying we can't play good football with Williamson and Simpson in the side, but we managed it perfectly well during those six wins in a row last season in which they both played every minute. Sorry, Simpson was taken off with 8mins left against Stoke at 3-0. As I've said however, the ludicrous 11 purples thing doesn't help him at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Debuchy, Marveaux, Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Cisse, Santon, Krul in the championship Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Fervently hope that if we finish this season in anything like decent form, Pardew will not be sacked. I'd be quietly embarrassed on behalf of the club - again - if he was. If we finish the season in decent form I don't think many will be calling for him to be sacked tbf. I think there's a small group that dislike him regardless, but nowhere near the majority. What has he ever done in his past career that gives people confidence that he is going to be a top manager with the same club over a period of more than 2 years ? Why does anyone think it is going to be different here..? Just as well Ipswich gave Robson a chance after his previous track record was to get Fulham relegated and then gave him time after a few rubbish seasons. Managers can improve. Pardew may not, but it is possible that he might come back a better manager for it. Have you looked at Robson's career record ? He was 35 when he became manager at Fulham and 36 when he joined Ipswich.....by the time he was Pardew's age he had achieved far more than being fired from 4 clubs - if Pardew hasn't achieved anything as a manager now, he isn't going to, or at least, the odds against it are very high. Look at Ferguson's record as a manager by the time he reached Pardew's age - do you think Man U would have appointed Pardew as their manager when he was the same age as Ferguson ?? There are plenty of managers I could quote who have made it by the time they are Pardew's age - he is at NUFC because he is cheap to employ and suits the board because of it. Any manager worth their salt wants a degree of control over signings and club policy - Ashley and Llambias are never going to allow that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Just out of interest - how many clubs have a particular style of play/philosophy? I agree that Pardew's lack of work on attacking play and tactical awareness is being shown up at the moment, but I do feel that the whole philosophy is a bit woolly and possibly being overplayed. I fully expect to be torn apart for this by the way. A 'particular style of play' to me refers more how easily and well players of lesser ability can slot into the team and do more than simply make up the numbers. Lots of teams can do this effectively, by which I mean they don't instantly turn to the turgid 'kick the ball as far as possible from our goal', ultra-negative play we've seen so regularly this season and even parts of last. Pardew's philosophy to date seems to be that if all of our best players aren't available then we simply can't do the same things, and I don't buy that. Some have excused it by saying we can't play good football with Williamson and Simpson in the side, but we managed it perfectly well during those six wins in a row last season in which they both played every minute. Sorry, Simpson was taken off with 8mins left against Stoke at 3-0. As I've said however, the ludicrous 11 purples thing doesn't help him at all. great post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JS Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Honestly wish we'd give this clown the boot and bring Montella in /notgonnahappenbutheyho Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Honestly wish we'd give this clown the boot and bring Montella in /notgonnahappenbutheyho God that would be amazing Fiorentina have been great to watch with him at the helm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I'm still astounded at the sheer vision and bravura of Swansea to just go and get Laudrup. Amazing. Yup. See the sad thing is the majority of owners really aren't all that different from the majority of fans in how narrow minded they can be as far as hiring a manager goes. The first reaction when you suggest a change in manager on here is usually, the typical 'who can we get that's better?', which always baffles me. It always seemingly has to be someone everyone has heard about that is a proven success already. I gurantee if people had suggetsed Laudrup, had he not already gone to Swansea, he would likely have been rubbished by most, as having not proven anything anywhere. The priority though should really be to look at the manager's approach and philosophy, and the potential to marry this up with the clubs current assets etc. Although I can't necessarily name them all, I have no doubt there's at least a handful of managers that can come in and make far better use of the players we have, and implement a style of football that is bettersuited to them, than Pardew ever could. It's been quite unacceptable from Pardew really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Honestly wish we'd give this clown the boot and bring Montella in /notgonnahappenbutheyho God that would be amazing Fiorentina have been great to watch with him at the helm. I can't even begin to imagine the football we would play really, the quality of our football should have everyone shaking with rage with the players we have, and i agree the philospy thing is being overblown, we should be spending monday to friday working on passing and breaking teams down with the attacking talent at our disposal then hoying them on the pitch at the weekend to implement it if we'd ended up with 20 points with that approach i'd be far more comfortable than i am at the moment with the sheer idiocy of playing a game that is not suited to the majority of our players and still only getting fucking 20 points Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc4eva Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I'm still astounded at the sheer vision and bravura of Swansea to just go and get Laudrup. Amazing. Yup. See the sad thing is the majority of owners really aren't all that different from the majority of fans in how narrow minded they can be as far as hiring a manager goes. The first reaction when you suggest a change in manager on here is usually, the typical 'who can we get that's better?', which always baffles me. It always seemingly has to be someone everyone has heard about that is a proven success already. I gurantee if people had suggetsed Laudrup, had he not already gone to Swansea, he would likely have been rubbished by most, as having not proven anything anywhere. The priority though should really be to look at the manager's approach and philosophy, and the potential to marry this up with the clubs current assets etc. Although I can't necessarily name them all, I have no doubt there's at least a handful of managers that can come in and make far better use of the players we have, and implement a style of football that is bettersuited to them, than Pardew ever could. It's been quite unacceptable from Pardew really. You need to scout managers as you do players and look for the qualities, you need to have an idea of what you want to achieve and find the appropriate manager for that job. We don't seem to know what manager we want or care what style they have. Our owner/chaircunt need to look at background of managers, how they deal with pressure, their apparent strengths and weaknesses etc - exactly as you were hiring a manager for your company, you would ideally look for someone to progress there department well or just carry out your commands (Chaircunts idea) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Fervently hope that if we finish this season in anything like decent form, Pardew will not be sacked. I'd be quietly embarrassed on behalf of the club - again - if he was. If we finish the season in decent form I don't think many will be calling for him to be sacked tbf. I think there's a small group that dislike him regardless, but nowhere near the majority. What has he ever done in his past career that gives people confidence that he is going to be a top manager with the same club over a period of more than 2 years ? Why does anyone think it is going to be different here..? Just as well Ipswich gave Robson a chance after his previous track record was to get Fulham relegated and then gave him time after a few rubbish seasons. Managers can improve. Pardew may not, but it is possible that he might come back a better manager for it. Have you looked at Robson's career record ? He was 35 when he became manager at Fulham and 36 when he joined Ipswich.....by the time he was Pardew's age he had achieved far more than being fired from 4 clubs - if Pardew hasn't achieved anything as a manager now, he isn't going to, or at least, the odds against it are very high. Look at Ferguson's record as a manager by the time he reached Pardew's age - do you think Man U would have appointed Pardew as their manager when he was the same age as Ferguson ?? There are plenty of managers I could quote who have made it by the time they are Pardew's age - he is at NUFC because he is cheap to employ and suits the board because of it. Any manager worth their salt wants a degree of control over signings and club policy - Ashley and Llambias are never going to allow that. My point was that the same could have been said of Robson at a particular point of his career, but obviously he went on to be a great manager. I dare say that if Ipswich had decided that finishing 19th in Robson's second season wasn't acceptable and sacked him, his managerial career might have been a very very different one. I am not suggesting that Pardew will be anywhere near as good as Robson, but maybe Pardew does need to be given another season in charge of a club to see if he can reverse the current trend. Writing him off as someone who can't produce beyond 1-2 seasons is lazy and ignores all context. I am sure there are plenty of managers you can mention who have 'made it' by 51 - I am sure there are a damn sight more managers you could list who haven't. Are you suggesting that we should only appoint managers who have now 'made it'? Perhaps we should give Jose a ring if that is now the criteria. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Just out of interest - how many clubs have a particular style of play/philosophy? I agree that Pardew's lack of work on attacking play and tactical awareness is being shown up at the moment, but I do feel that the whole philosophy is a bit woolly and possibly being overplayed. I fully expect to be torn apart for this by the way. A 'particular style of play' to me refers more how easily and well players of lesser ability can slot into the team and do more than simply make up the numbers. Lots of teams can do this effectively, by which I mean they don't instantly turn to the turgid 'kick the ball as far as possible from our goal', ultra-negative play we've seen so regularly this season and even parts of last. Pardew's philosophy to date seems to be that if all of our best players aren't available then we simply can't do the same things, and I don't buy that. Some have excused it by saying we can't play good football with Williamson and Simpson in the side, but we managed it perfectly well during those six wins in a row last season in which they both played every minute. Sorry, Simpson was taken off with 8mins left against Stoke at 3-0. As I've said however, the ludicrous 11 purples thing doesn't help him at all. Ok - that makes far more sense to me than theidea that each team needs to have a particular style akin to a Brendan Rodgers team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Any manager worth their salt wants a degree of control over signings and club policy - Ashley and Llambias are never going to allow that. Except in pretty much every major footballing country apart from England, where directors of football are the norm and managers tend simply to coach the team. It's almost unheard of for a manager to dictate transfer policy in Italy, for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Pardew does have a major say though. On the players we choose to pursue. Not so much on how far we go to pursue them obviously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 It's true that working with our owner/director does present challenges that many managers wouldn't put up with. But I don't see that as a criticism of someone who will put up with them. He wants the job, he's working within the constraints he's given. Any other reaction would cause more problems and would be to the detriment of the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 If Pardew has a major say, why buy Anita only then play 4-4-2? Never has a player been less suitable for a formation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 If Pardew has a major say, why buy Anita only then play 4-4-2? Never has a player been less suitable for a formation. I don't think any manager is going to turn down players of his quality when given the opportunity. Given that the alternative was probably nobody. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 ...and to expect Newcastle to emerge as being wedded to any particular footballing philosophy so soon after a complete top-to-bottom change in personnel is a bit much. Pardew said a long time ago that he wanted to start with an organised side that was hard to beat and progress to taking more control over games and I don't see any reason to suppose he's not still trying to do that. Whether we'll ever be thought of as having our own philosophy or brand is doubtful. Manchester United purport to have a strong philosophy but you'd struggle to put a name on it or define it. "Attacking football"? They've generally used a lot of width I suppose. It's easier with Swansea and (if their manager succeeds) Liverpool because they're trying to ape tiki-taka, but that's a pretty unique example. There aren't a lot of clubs where you'd say there was a philosophy in place that they adhere to more or less regardless of the manager. Nantes used to, not sure about now. Ajax certainly do. Stoke's extreme style of play doesn't count because that is 100% Pulis' input and there's no reason to suppose it won't die with his departure just as Bolton's percentageball did when Allardyce left. AC Milan had a characteristic style of play for a long time but that was as much down to Ancelotti and general trends in Italy as anything - plus the fact they had Pirlo - and it's already been compromised since his departure... I'm struggling now. Most clubs with any momentum tend just to strive for generic, modern, Champions League-style football with not much to elevate or distinguish it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 It all comes back to lack of footballing knowledge/experience at Boardroom level. Having an unscrupulous businessman at the helm has benefited us in some ways but when it comes down to selecting managers, deciding when to fire/hire someone and judging when to break our policies for the good of the club, we need someone who has been involved in the game. Whether or not there's anyone out there that Ashley and Dekka would trust enough to put in an advisory position, fuck knows. If we sack Pardew now i've no doubt we'll end up with someone seriously underwhelming to replace him. If we had this adviser in place he could be out scouting possible replacements right now, which would give us a better chance of ending up with someone decent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 If Pardew has a say in transfers then I hope for his sake he has been banging on about a CB for the last 18 months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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