Alan Pardew

[Hanshithispantz]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:13, neesy111 said:

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How did he forfeit the cup? He fielded arguably the strongest side he could and sent them out to play the style of football we've played most of the season.

 

Brighton, like every other team we've played away from home this season, were just better.

 

Do you think for a minute Colo and Cisse were actually injured?

I don't know, and neither do you. I don't quite think resting 2 players is throwing away the cup though even if they were.

 

I can understand the thought process of not wanting to play a full strength side (again we pretty much put out what we could) but I still don't think he sent them out with the intention of getting beat and extending our shit run of form.

[Guest tollemache]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:11, Jack Flash said:

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The point about Moyes is a great one

 

It's an awful point and I'm sick of reading it. There's ONE example of that working.

 

I don't have the time right now to go trawling for examples but are you suggesting that David Moyes is the only example of a club being rewarded for sticking with a manager through difficult times? Because it looks like that's what you're suggesting.

[loki679]

  On 08/01/2013 at 12:52, Hughesy said:

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If I believed Pardew had anywhere near Moyes' ability, I'd be more patient with him.

 

Did you know at the time that Moyes was as good as he has proved to be or are you talking with the benefit of hindsight?  I don't think many, if any, picked Moyes out to be a potential star during the lean years.

 

Moyes (and Ferguson who is the other one usually rolled out to support this specious argument) had a record of success at their previous clubs which is why they were given the job.  What in Pardew's record suggests that he will turn this around and bring this club success?

[Dave]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:20, Hanspissedhispantz said:

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How did he forfeit the cup? He fielded arguably the strongest side he could and sent them out to play the style of football we've played most of the season.

 

Brighton, like every other team we've played away from home this season, were just better.

 

Do you think for a minute Colo and Cisse were actually injured?

I don't know, and neither do you. I don't quite think resting 2 players is throwing away the cup though even if they were.

 

I can understand the thought process of not wanting to play a full strength side (again we pretty much put out what we could) but I still don't think he sent them out with the intention of getting beat and extending our shit run of form.

 

Obviously I don't believe he sent them out to lose, that would be ridiculous. But considering the lack of impetus and urgency even from such a youthful side surely happy to get a chance, I would be stunned if the overriding instruction wasn't just to avoid injury. Pardew ignoring the fans at the full time whistle was the confirmation for me, he couldn't bear to face them IMO.

[Hughesy]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:22, loki679 said:

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If I believed Pardew had anywhere near Moyes' ability, I'd be more patient with him.

 

Did you know at the time that Moyes was as good as he has proved to be or are you talking with the benefit of hindsight?  I don't think many, if any, picked Moyes out to be a potential star during the lean years.

 

Moyes (and Ferguson who is the other one usually rolled out to support this specious argument) had a record of success at their previous clubs which is why they were given the job.  What in Pardew's record suggests that he will turn this around and bring this club success?

 

Moyes' record at Preston is very similar to what Pardew achieved with Reading and to a lesser extent West Ham.

[Pilko]

I agree with Dave to an extent, partially because all of Pardew's bluster about loving the FA Cup for three years in a row has lead to a pathetic limp performance away to a lower league side and an early exit and I think it's just a front to deflect criticism onto the players when we do go out.

[Jack Flash]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:21, tollemache said:

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The point about Moyes is a great one

 

It's an awful point and I'm sick of reading it. There's ONE example of that working.

 

I don't have the time right now to go trawling for examples but are you suggesting that David Moyes is the only example of a club being rewarded for sticking with a manager through difficult times? Because it looks like that's what you're suggesting.

 

It's the only example I keep reading all season. I'll balance it out with George Burley.

[Hanshithispantz]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:22, Dave said:

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How did he forfeit the cup? He fielded arguably the strongest side he could and sent them out to play the style of football we've played most of the season.

 

Brighton, like every other team we've played away from home this season, were just better.

 

Do you think for a minute Colo and Cisse were actually injured?

I don't know, and neither do you. I don't quite think resting 2 players is throwing away the cup though even if they were.

 

I can understand the thought process of not wanting to play a full strength side (again we pretty much put out what we could) but I still don't think he sent them out with the intention of getting beat and extending our shit run of form.

 

Obviously I don't believe he sent them out to lose, that would be ridiculous. But considering the lack of impetus and urgency even from such a youthful side surely happy to get a chance, I would be stunned if the overriding instruction wasn't just to avoid injury. Pardew ignoring the fans at the full time whistle was the confirmation for me, he couldn't bear to face them IMO.

Well he did admit to his game plan being "wait until 70 minutes and then Marv will come on and win the game" so there's probably something in that.

[loki679]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:21, tollemache said:

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The point about Moyes is a great one

 

It's an awful point and I'm sick of reading it. There's ONE example of that working.

 

I don't have the time right now to go trawling for examples but are you suggesting that David Moyes is the only example of a club being rewarded for sticking with a manager through difficult times? Because it looks like that's what you're suggesting.

 

There's as many examples (probably more) of clubs being damaged by sticking with the wrong man for too long.  The key factor isn't the amount of time given to the manager, it's the manager's ability.

[Elliottman]

So what have we learnt? Sometimes its good to stick with a manager. Sometimes its not.

[Zero]

I do expect the young lads to put more effort on it though

[Hughesy]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:27, Elliottman said:

So what have we learnt? Sometimes its good to stick with a manager. Sometimes its not.

 

[timeEd32]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:11, Jack Flash said:

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The point about Moyes is a great one

 

It's an awful point and I'm sick of reading it. There's ONE example of that working.

 

Are you really suggesting that chopping and changing managers leads to more success? There are truckloads of examples across all sports that prove the exact opposite.

 

It's not done this way, but changing managers should be a last resort when you're absolutely sure he's what's holding the team back AND there's a replacement you believe can take the team forward.

 

I'm speaking in general terms here as I'm on the fence about Pardew at the moment. Better the devil you know for the time being.

[Dave]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:24, Hanspissedhispantz said:

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How did he forfeit the cup? He fielded arguably the strongest side he could and sent them out to play the style of football we've played most of the season.

 

Brighton, like every other team we've played away from home this season, were just better.

 

Do you think for a minute Colo and Cisse were actually injured?

I don't know, and neither do you. I don't quite think resting 2 players is throwing away the cup though even if they were.

 

I can understand the thought process of not wanting to play a full strength side (again we pretty much put out what we could) but I still don't think he sent them out with the intention of getting beat and extending our shit run of form.

 

Obviously I don't believe he sent them out to lose, that would be ridiculous. But considering the lack of impetus and urgency even from such a youthful side surely happy to get a chance, I would be stunned if the overriding instruction wasn't just to avoid injury. Pardew ignoring the fans at the full time whistle was the confirmation for me, he couldn't bear to face them IMO.

Well he did admit to his game plan being "wait until 70 minutes and then Marv will come on and win the game" so there's probably something in that.

 

Sadly I'm struggling to hold it against him too much, we're in deep shit in the league and need every advantage we can get. We've already seen with the Europa League how things go to shit with only a few days between matches. It probably shouldn't be the case, but apparently it is. If we were due to play Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea then perhaps he wouldn't have rested Colo/Cisse/Marv. In reality our upcoming games are far too important.

[Hanshithispantz]

I think we should bring in a manager with clear potential and a good footballing philosophy and stick with him.

[Jack Flash]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:34, timeEd32 said:

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The point about Moyes is a great one

 

It's an awful point and I'm sick of reading it. There's ONE example of that working.

 

Are you really suggesting that chopping and changing managers leads to more success? There are truckloads of examples across all sports that prove the exact opposite.

 

It's not done this way, but changing managers should be a last resort when you're absolutely sure he's what's holding the team back AND there's a replacement you believe can take the team forward.

 

I'm speaking in general terms here as I'm on the fence about Pardew at the moment. Better the devil you know for the time being.

 

Obviously not. I'm saying there's one example of sticking with a manager that gets trotted out to defend Pardew. Moyes surviving a 7th to 17th finish doesn't mean every other manager should "just in case".

[Pilko]

I don't see how only having 2 or 3 days to prepare for a game after the Europa League suddenly means 'ah fuck it let's just batter the ball at Ba and Cisse in a flat 4-4-2', if we'd been consistently working on one fluid formation all season (i.e. from the start of pre-season) then this lack of prep time wouldn't matter. Pardew probably just spends all of it telling our players to shit themselves because we're up against Cameron Jerome, Shaun Derry, Craig Mackail-Smith etc this week and they are fucking BRILLIANT players.

[Hanshithispantz]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:37, Dave said:

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How did he forfeit the cup? He fielded arguably the strongest side he could and sent them out to play the style of football we've played most of the season.

 

Brighton, like every other team we've played away from home this season, were just better.

 

Do you think for a minute Colo and Cisse were actually injured?

I don't know, and neither do you. I don't quite think resting 2 players is throwing away the cup though even if they were.

 

I can understand the thought process of not wanting to play a full strength side (again we pretty much put out what we could) but I still don't think he sent them out with the intention of getting beat and extending our shit run of form.

 

Obviously I don't believe he sent them out to lose, that would be ridiculous. But considering the lack of impetus and urgency even from such a youthful side surely happy to get a chance, I would be stunned if the overriding instruction wasn't just to avoid injury. Pardew ignoring the fans at the full time whistle was the confirmation for me, he couldn't bear to face them IMO.

Well he did admit to his game plan being "wait until 70 minutes and then Marv will come on and win the game" so there's probably something in that.

 

Sadly I'm struggling to hold it against him too much, we're in deep shit in the league and need every advantage we can get. We've already seen with the Europa League how things go to shit with only a few days between matches. It probably shouldn't be the case, but apparently it is. If we were due to play Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea then perhaps he wouldn't have rested Colo/Cisse/Marv. In reality our games are far too important.

I don't disagree either tbh, I just took the initial "forfeit the cup" a bit too literally. I do hope we can build up a safe-ish gap between us and the drop zone in time for us to really give the Europa a crack though, it's all we have to look forward to.

 

Pardew isn't fully to blame either, as much as I don't think he's the right man for the job our squad depth is pitiful and once again it's showing.

[Dave]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:44, Hanspissedhispantz said:

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How did he forfeit the cup? He fielded arguably the strongest side he could and sent them out to play the style of football we've played most of the season.

 

Brighton, like every other team we've played away from home this season, were just better.

 

Do you think for a minute Colo and Cisse were actually injured?

I don't know, and neither do you. I don't quite think resting 2 players is throwing away the cup though even if they were.

 

I can understand the thought process of not wanting to play a full strength side (again we pretty much put out what we could) but I still don't think he sent them out with the intention of getting beat and extending our shit run of form.

 

Obviously I don't believe he sent them out to lose, that would be ridiculous. But considering the lack of impetus and urgency even from such a youthful side surely happy to get a chance, I would be stunned if the overriding instruction wasn't just to avoid injury. Pardew ignoring the fans at the full time whistle was the confirmation for me, he couldn't bear to face them IMO.

Well he did admit to his game plan being "wait until 70 minutes and then Marv will come on and win the game" so there's probably something in that.

 

Sadly I'm struggling to hold it against him too much, we're in deep shit in the league and need every advantage we can get. We've already seen with the Europa League how things go to shit with only a few days between matches. It probably shouldn't be the case, but apparently it is. If we were due to play Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea then perhaps he wouldn't have rested Colo/Cisse/Marv. In reality our games are far too important.

I don't disagree either tbh, I just took the initial "forfeit the cup" a bit too literally. I do hope we can build up a safe-ish gap between us and the drop zone in time for us to really give the Europa a crack though, it's all we have to look forward to.

 

Pardew isn't fully to blame either, as much as I don't think he's the right man for the job our squad depth is pitiful and once again it's showing.

 

[Davy Ren]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:40, Hanspissedhispantz said:

I think we should bring in a manager with clear potential and a good footballing philosophy and stick with him.

 

Sounds like Martinez to me!

[thenige]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:47, renw02 said:

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I think we should bring in a manager with clear potential and a good footballing philosophy and stick with him.

 

Sounds like Martinez to me!

 

Amusing how people are having a pop at Pardew's record in cup competitions then and calling for Martinez to come in instead.

[Razor]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:47, renw02 said:

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I think we should bring in a manager with clear potential and a good footballing philosophy and stick with him.

 

Sounds like Martinez to me!

 

This is always the best thing to do, but its like the club (and so many others) have a gambling problem. The 'best man for the job, or the best we can get' is always appointed, but when things go wrong the grass always becomes greener, and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that if we appointed someone else they'd be under the exact same scrutiny Pardew is now, even if they have a better philosophy. If he didn't have the relationship he has with the hierarchy he'd be out already, I wasn't a fan when he was appointed, won me over last season (yes like pretty much everyone) but those initial fears seem to have been realised.

 

It's either an endemic problem, or just the nature of management. It's easy to look at the Ferguson's and Wenger's as the ideal, but in reality I think they are more the exception - and not an exception that can be easily predicted upon appointing a manager.

 

I'd give Pardew another 6 matches to turn it around, if we're still spiraling out of control Ashley really should make a move. Saying that, if the ship goes down, I think the captain will be coming along for the ride.

[Rocker]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:58, Razor said:

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I think we should bring in a manager with clear potential and a good footballing philosophy and stick with him.

 

Sounds like Martinez to me!

 

This is always the best thing to do, but its like the club (and so many others) have a gambling problem. The 'best man for the job, or the best we can get' is always appointed, but when things go wrong the grass always becomes greener, and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that if we appointed someone else they'd be under the exact same scrutiny Pardew is now, even if they have a better philosophy. If he didn't have the relationship he has with the hierarchy he'd be out already, I wasn't a fan when he was appointed, won me over last season (yes like pretty much everyone) but those initial fears seem to have been realised.

 

It's either an endemic problem, or just the nature of management. It's easy to look at the Ferguson's and Wenger's as the ideal, but in reality I think they are more the exception - and not an exception that can be easily predicted upon appointing a manager.

 

I'd give Pardew another 6 matches to turn it around, if we're still spiraling out of control Ashley really should make a move. Saying that, if the ship goes down, I think the captain will be coming along for the ride.

 

[Davy Ren]

  On 08/01/2013 at 13:50, thenige said:

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I think we should bring in a manager with clear potential and a good footballing philosophy and stick with him.

 

Sounds like Martinez to me!

 

Amusing how people are having a pop at Pardew's record in cup competitions then and calling for Martinez to come in instead.

 

I've never mentioned cup competitions and wouldn't know I just think there is better quality managers out there who can get us playing better football and with a little more gameplan. You've got to agree some of the team formations and team selections/substitutions have been ridiculous.

 

Why do inferior players/teams outplay us? Or is it that our players are just not good enough?

 

 

[Davy Ren]

Great point razor 100% agree