Mick Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 So I suppose I'd tend to back Ian W to an extent. Perhaps go a little further and speculate, to the possible agreement of Interpolic, that it is possible that all of this stems from something as trivial as a debate over whether or not to accommodate Demba Ba. I think a couple of injuries and a nagging issue or two like that really can be enough to tip a team over the edge. And when those couple of injuries include the two key creative reference points in your side... Problems. As you'll possibly have noticed by now, I'm a lot more pro-Ashley and pro-Pardew than most because I see signs of what I think is exactly the right way to run a football club emerging after years of embarrassing Shepherd madness, and I'm loath to write that prospect off until the grim death because it is exactly what the club has been crying out for for a long, long time. I'll forgive a run of shitty form, a dud transfer window, a bit of hoofball, a baffling decision and even a slightly uninspirational manager quite happily if it means we end up a soundly-run, upwardly mobile outfit in a few years and I can see it happening. Look at the calibre of our best XI for Christ's sake. If we somehow get it wrong and go down I'll be heartbroken because it will most likely be ripped apart but I think if you can't see that this administration is our best chance for ages at being a proper club you need your head checking. Whatever they're doing wrong, they're doing a lot right. I'm waffling and my pint is getting warm so cheers More spin without foundation. Ashley has run the club in at least an embarrassing way as Shepherd did, the headlines since Ashley bought the club have been at least as bad as the headlines before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 So the only options are: 1. Run the club tight as f*** like Mike Ashley. 2. Run the club irresponsible as f*** like Freddy Shepherd. Righto. No. It comes down to whether you think Ashley is being tight as fuck, or merely sensible. "Tight as fuck" shouldn't come into it anyway; the club makes enough money to compete and if Ashley is running it responsibly within that budget, we will do ok. Here's a question. If our scouting team are so talented and the considerations the club take when deciding to invest in a player so bulletproof, why don't the club trust them enough to put up the requisite money in the transfer market? We allegedly wanted Debuchy, a centre half and a striker in the summer, but wouldn't spend the money required to get any of them. As a direct result of this (and the manager agrees) we're two points above the relegation zone over halfway through the season, after finishing 5th last time out. I genuinely believed the Cisse signing was a sign that we were prepared to move in the right direction. Not simply because he cost more, but because we were already doing well. The summer showed once again that they value money in the bank over results on the pitch. It's the same reason that we're willing to jeopardise up to nine massively important points in January by continuing to play Williamson when he's not been good enough all season, and continuing to go without a replacement for our top scorer who's been widely expected to leave for months thanks to a clause we had no control over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Your idea of football sense seems to be "spending more money" then. And we wouldn't have had that top scorer had it not been for the clause under which he left, so to interpret that in terms of lack of ambition is daft. Clearly we'd have kept him if it had been possible. Yes; but only to an extent and when appropriate. I find it hard to believe that the majority of the Caroll money has been spent to the degree that's its had a truly effective impact. I don't see how you can set your sights at top ten, finish comfortably in the top 6 and not see that as a platform to invest. Not by daft amounts and stupid contracts a la Shepherd but just by showing a more assertive stance on transfer activity. And what makes even less sense is, the new TV deal comes in effect next season. If there was ever a time to invest in the team to ensure progress, then last summer was it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 The way the name change was handled smacks of disregard for the fans and best for the football/club side of things; and cheap promotion of his own interests. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 did everyone catch the "Cabaye will be like a new signing" from Pardew?! Its gone beyond ludicrous now. Its full blown farce Tbf a lot of managers use that term, cliche central that like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Your idea of football sense seems to be "spending more money" then. And we wouldn't have had that top scorer had it not been for the clause under which he left, so to interpret that in terms of lack of ambition is daft. Clearly we'd have kept him if it had been possible. Yes; but only to an extent and when appropriate. I find it hard to believe that the majority of the Caroll money has been spent to the degree that's its had a truly effective impact. I don't see how you can set your sights at top ten, finish comfortably in the top 6 and not see that as a platform to invest. Not by daft amounts and stupid contracts a la Shepherd but just by showing a more assertive stance on transfer activity. That's exactly what you don't do, surely? Because you know you've overachieved and can't really bank on sustaining a serious assault on the top 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 It's easy, I just think about periods of time of longer than half a season. Longer than one season even! Imagine! You can't see into the future, can you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I feel a Portsmouth or Leeds United citation in the air. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 tollemache's the one who thought Souness had the right idea as NUFC manager and it only went wrong because he was unlucky with injuries. That's good enough reason to completely disregard anything else he has to say on football matters. Sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 We just bought France's first choice right back? In what sense are we not competing in the marketplace? If you mean we're not splashing the same cash as clubs in stronger positions than us, not paying whatever it takes to get our targets, then you do not want the best for the club and you should consider lobbying for the return of effing Freddie Shepherd We needed Debuchy in the summer, we also needed a forward and centre half, not getting those players has contributed to our current position and because of that has cost us money. Sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate and we've failed miserably at that this season. We’ve even lost the player we tried to base our team selection around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 So the only options are: 1. Run the club tight as f*** like Mike Ashley. 2. Run the club irresponsible as f*** like Freddy Shepherd. Righto. No. It comes down to whether you think Ashley is being tight as f***, or merely sensible. "Tight as f***" shouldn't come into it anyway; the club makes enough money to compete and if Ashley is running it responsibly within that budget, we will do ok. Here's a question. If our scouting team are so talented and the considerations the club take when deciding to invest in a player so bulletproof, why don't the club trust them enough to put up the requisite money in the transfer market? We allegedly wanted Debuchy, a centre half and a striker in the summer, but wouldn't spend the money required to get any of them. As a direct result of this (and the manager agrees) we're two points above the relegation zone over halfway through the season, after finishing 5th last time out. I genuinely believed the Cisse signing was a sign that we were prepared to move in the right direction. Not simply because he cost more, but because we were already doing well. The summer showed once again that they value money in the bank over results on the pitch. It's the same reason that we're willing to jeopardise up to nine massively important points in January by continuing to play Williamson when he's not been good enough all season, and continuing to go without a replacement for our top scorer who's been widely expected to leave for months thanks to a clause we had no control over. Depends what you mean by the requisite money, as opposed to too much money. They backed the scouting department by going in for him. Again, the right direction in your book just seems to be spending more money. And how many million do you think you'd recommend lashing out on getting a centre half over the line right now, to play in these three January games? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 tollemache's the one who thought Souness had the right idea as NUFC manager and it only went wrong because he was unlucky with injuries. That's good enough reason to completely disregard anything else he has to say on football matters. Sorry. I said I felt sorry for him because his plan A looked great for 20 minutes and it was heartbreaking the way injuries fucked it straight away, never to be seen again. Didn't say he didn't do anything else wrong! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 So you didn't read it. Okay, never mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Your idea of football sense seems to be "spending more money" then. And we wouldn't have had that top scorer had it not been for the clause under which he left, so to interpret that in terms of lack of ambition is daft. Clearly we'd have kept him if it had been possible. Yes; but only to an extent and when appropriate. I find it hard to believe that the majority of the Caroll money has been spent to the degree that's its had a truly effective impact. I don't see how you can set your sights at top ten, finish comfortably in the top 6 and not see that as a platform to invest. Not by daft amounts and stupid contracts a la Shepherd but just by showing a more assertive stance on transfer activity. That's exactly what you don't do, surely? Because you know you've overachieved and can't really bank on sustaining a serious assault on the top 4 You don't half lay on the hyperbole on those with the opposing view; as eloquent and as interesting a poster as you seem to be. I hasve never suggested an assault on the top four just that we invest to maintain our position in the top 7; as it stands we've got players in the 1st 11 regularly who aren't mid-championship standard, in vital positions too. That constitutes footballing sense to spend wisely in those areas to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 You're just whingeing, again, that we needed players X and Y and didn't get them, with no consideration for anything else. Doesn't matter how or who or how expensive, they just should've found a way, end of. Which is a simpler argument than I think has much relevance to a transfer window in the real world Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishMagpie Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I agree with the sentiment of wanting a stable, financially well run club but how anyone can think that this is the man to put our faith in is beyond me. He keeps going about wanting Cabaye and Ben Arfa back because now he's got no Ba he's got fuck all to hide behind. He's been extremely fortunate to have a few players that have been right on song or have individual brilliance. Can only rely on that for so long. For months he's harked about 'lacking creativity' 'needing our best players' back etc. Lets pretend that when he did have his 'best' players available at the start of the season we were doing well. How does the absence of these players mean we cant play basic football? eg. put a cross in or get a corner in to the box? Just what is our coaching team doing on the training pitches? There's no style of play being drilled in to this set of players. If he knew Cabs/HBA would be out for a while he should be training the remaining squad in how to do more with the football, fuck.... he should be doing that anyway! Our set penises for example, every time it's the same thing which does not work you fucking muppet! You would think he would be trying to teach them a variety of scenarios but even that seems beyond him. I can't recall once this season where he has got his tactics right from the start of match. We always limp in to half time to then be followed by substitions which have no footballing logic to them whatsoever. But my biggest grievance with him is that he's a reactive manager and not a proactive one. He spends all his time thinking about stopping the opposition (regardless of their level and which players are avaiable to him) and not enough about enhancing our positives and making them worry about us for a change. Pards newcastle team must be the most predictable team to play against. I bet Chris had his homework done on us before susana reid was off the telly on monday morning. I'll echo what someone has said in a few posts back and say it looks like he's losing the dressing room and never seen a manager return from that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 did everyone catch the "Cabaye will be like a new signing" from Pardew?! Its gone beyond ludicrous now. Its full blown farce Tbf a lot of managers use that term, cliche central that like. Sorta the reason I though Pardew would surely avoid using that line, as its the most bullshit cliche around. Especially given what isn't going on regarding transfers. But their we go, he's said it, earlier than I expected aswell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Where I have stated they should just spend whatever it takes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 That was to Dave. I've got to go I'm afraid, back on later. I do enjoy this... Realise my take on it winds people up but in the main people on here argue very well so it's fun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Where I have stated they should just spend whatever it takes? You clearly want the club to go under, like Portsmouth or Leeds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 You're just whingeing, again, that we needed players X and Y and didn't get them, with no consideration for anything else. Doesn't matter how or who or how expensive, they just should've found a way, end of. Which is a simpler argument than I think has much relevance to a transfer window in the real world How much has it cost us by not getting player X and player Y? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 did everyone catch the "Cabaye will be like a new signing" from Pardew?! Its gone beyond ludicrous now. Its full blown farce Tbf a lot of managers use that term, cliche central that like. Sorta the reason I though Pardew would surely avoid using that line, as its the most bullshit cliche around. Especially given what isn't going on regarding transfers. But their we go, he's said it, earlier than I expected aswell. Reckon managers must think it sounds great, we as fans dont half hate it. He's gonna say it lot with players he expects back in the next few games Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 So the only options are: 1. Run the club tight as f*** like Mike Ashley. 2. Run the club irresponsible as f*** like Freddy Shepherd. Righto. No. It comes down to whether you think Ashley is being tight as f***, or merely sensible. "Tight as f***" shouldn't come into it anyway; the club makes enough money to compete and if Ashley is running it responsibly within that budget, we will do ok. Here's a question. If our scouting team are so talented and the considerations the club take when deciding to invest in a player so bulletproof, why don't the club trust them enough to put up the requisite money in the transfer market? We allegedly wanted Debuchy, a centre half and a striker in the summer, but wouldn't spend the money required to get any of them. As a direct result of this (and the manager agrees) we're two points above the relegation zone over halfway through the season, after finishing 5th last time out. I genuinely believed the Cisse signing was a sign that we were prepared to move in the right direction. Not simply because he cost more, but because we were already doing well. The summer showed once again that they value money in the bank over results on the pitch. It's the same reason that we're willing to jeopardise up to nine massively important points in January by continuing to play Williamson when he's not been good enough all season, and continuing to go without a replacement for our top scorer who's been widely expected to leave for months thanks to a clause we had no control over. Depends what you mean by the requisite money, as opposed to too much money. They backed the scouting department by going in for him. Again, the right direction in your book just seems to be spending more money. And how many million do you think you'd recommend lashing out on getting a centre half over the line right now, to play in these three January games? A short term vision if their ever was one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 That was to Dave. I've got to go I'm afraid, back on later. I do enjoy this... Realise my take on it winds people up but in the main people on here argue very well so it's fun You're inventing an argument which doesn't exist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Where I have stated they should just spend whatever it takes? You clearly want the club to go under, like Portsmouth or Leeds. There's your black and white, either/or twitch again. I'll be looking out for that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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