Guest Howaythetoon Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 So manager of the year is now forgotten about !!! Means fuck all when you're struggling right down at the bottom of the table. If anything our position makes a mockery of that title. Manager of the year he certainly was but that doesn't equate to being the best manager or even a good manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I hate this "couldn't have done more today" s****. Even if that were true, which it's not, he doesn't just turn up for work on a Saturday afternoon. It seems to be a very long list of away games that we've "taken positives from" yet failed to win. Why do so many other teams seem very capable of both playing ok and winning the match? Because their players take the chances that are created for them. Manager's fault like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 The corners yesterday were shocking but I don't think there's that much you can criticise him for yesterday. It was a stupid cock up at the back for the goal and our general play second half was pretty good. We took it to them second half and should've scored. He has his limitations but I don't think there was that much wrong yesterday. We've certainly played a lot worse and won. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I hate this "couldn't have done more today" s****. Even if that were true, which it's not, he doesn't just turn up for work on a Saturday afternoon. It seems to be a very long list of away games that we've "taken positives from" yet failed to win. Why do so many other teams seem very capable of both playing ok and winning the match? Because their players take the chances that are created for them. Manager's fault like So your solution is to buy him even more players? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 What's the main reason why we are playing better? Is it anything spectacular that Pardew's changed? Or is it just that 20M worth of players that's made our team better? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I hate this "couldn't have done more today" s****. Even if that were true, which it's not, he doesn't just turn up for work on a Saturday afternoon. It seems to be a very long list of away games that we've "taken positives from" yet failed to win. Why do so many other teams seem very capable of both playing ok and winning the match? Because their players take the chances that are created for them. Manager's fault like So your solution is to buy him even more players? Agreed, it would be insane to have more than 2 capable strikers. Lets stop throwing players at the bloke! Are people seriously expecting options from the bench? Do we think we are Man City or something!!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 If he could do or start to tackle the following things then I'd give him another season: Needs to get over his obsession with Jonas starting. More effective set pieces, our corners offer nothing, our indirect freekicks offer very little more. Needs to make earlier subs. Needs to sub the right players and bring on the right players. Needs to comment with more care. Start games better. I don't know how you go about getting the players to start games better, think that goes beyond the manager, maybe it's his motivational skills, it could equally be the players fault, it's probably a bit of both but if he could sort that out before the end of the season it would show me progression within him and the team and it would be enough to take in to next season. However I know none of that will happen, he'll play Jonas every game he can, we will start every game like we're playing a friendly, will provide no threat from SPs, won't change games with subs and he'll keep saying daft shit to anyone who will listen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I hate this "couldn't have done more today" s****. Even if that were true, which it's not, he doesn't just turn up for work on a Saturday afternoon. It seems to be a very long list of away games that we've "taken positives from" yet failed to win. Why do so many other teams seem very capable of both playing ok and winning the match? Because their players take the chances that are created for them. Manager's fault like So your solution is to buy him even more players? Agreed, it would be insane to have more than 2 capable strikers. Lets stop throwing players at the bloke! Are people seriously expecting options from the bench? Do we think we are Man City or something!!? Swansea brought on Luke Moore They've won a cup and are 8th btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I hate this "couldn't have done more today" s****. Even if that were true, which it's not, he doesn't just turn up for work on a Saturday afternoon. It seems to be a very long list of away games that we've "taken positives from" yet failed to win. Why do so many other teams seem very capable of both playing ok and winning the match? Because their players take the chances that are created for them. Manager's fault like So your solution is to buy him even more players? Agreed, it would be insane to have more than 2 capable strikers. Lets stop throwing players at the bloke! Are people seriously expecting options from the bench? Do we think we are Man City or something!!? Swansea brought on Luke Moore They've won a cup and are 8th btw. They also have Michu who has scored about 3 times as many as Cisse, in fact the player they let go in January would be putting up a good fight to start for us right now. Our forward option (no s) off the bench is Shola Ameobi. Not sure how anyone can seriously say we don't need to buy 'even more' players as if our forward line is already well stocked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 How many "capable strikers" have Arsenal, Everton, Spurs, Swansea, Chelsea and Liverpool been playing with all season? Everton have really struggled with goals from Jelavic like us with Cisse yet they're just underneath a CL place - because other players are scoring goals and they create a fuckload of chances nearly every game. The irony is that he's had two of the best strikers in the division available to him for most of the season and still couldn't win a game... but then the excuse is the right back, or the centre half, as if every squad in the league is perfection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Was lack of strikers really our problem yesterday like? He had a £10m striker up front with his new striker signing also playing. We've already established that you think he shouldn't have changed anything off the bench anyway cos we were supposedly playing well. Only Pardew could get this sort of leeway, people saying that to not be in a relegation fight we need two top class players in every position on the field. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I hate this "couldn't have done more today" s****. Even if that were true, which it's not, he doesn't just turn up for work on a Saturday afternoon. It seems to be a very long list of away games that we've "taken positives from" yet failed to win. Why do so many other teams seem very capable of both playing ok and winning the match? Because their players take the chances that are created for them. Manager's fault like So your solution is to buy him even more players? Agreed, it would be insane to have more than 2 capable strikers. Lets stop throwing players at the bloke! Are people seriously expecting options from the bench? Do we think we are Man City or something!!? Swansea brought on Luke Moore They've won a cup and are 8th btw. They also have Michu who has scored about 3 times as many as Cisse, in fact the player they let go in January would be putting up a good fight to start for us right now. Our forward option (no s) off the bench is Shola Ameobi. Not sure how anyone can seriously say we don't need to buy 'even more' players as if our forward line is already well stocked. Wayne Routledge is their joint second highest scorer in the league. Outside of Michu, their most prolific striker is Luke Moore who scored his first goal yesterday. If we need to keep buying players to see results (or goals in this case) then maybe squad depth isn't the issue (it definitely isn't). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 New striker signing? Im with the people that thought he did an ok job yesterday with setting the team up. He should perhaps have put on Marveaux a bit earlier, but we did play well at the time, so I can see the reason why he didn´t. I think Cisse would have scored yesterday if he wasn´t so fucking desperate to score. Seems like he is panicking in front of goal, and just smashes the ball as soon as the opportunity allows it. Hard to say what would have happend if he had taken one of his chances better, but we would certainly have had a better chance of getting something from the match if he had. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Swansea's bench: 25 Tremmel 02 Bartley 21 Tiendalli 24 Ki Sung-Yeung 14 Lamah 17 Shechter 19 Moore Everton's yesterday: 46 Springthorpe 05 Heitinga 18 Neville 08 Oviedo 16 Hitzlsperger 14 Naismith 28 Anichebe Liverpool: 42 Gulacsi 16 Coates 47 Wisdom 14 Henderson 33 Shelvey 11 Assaidi 30 Suso Spurs against West Ham: 24 Friedel 13 Gallas 16 Naughton 32 Assou-Ekotto 22 Sigurdsson 29 Livermore 46 Carroll And yet we're the ones with a squad fit only for a relegation fight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 How many "capable strikers" have Arsenal, Everton, Spurs, Swansea, Chelsea and Liverpool been playing with all season? Everton have really struggled with goals from Jelavic like us with Cisse yet they're just underneath a CL place - because other players are scoring goals and they create a fuckload of chances nearly every game. The irony is that he's had two of the best strikers in the division available to him for most of the entire season and still couldn't win a game... but then the excuse is the right back, or the centre half, as if every squad in the league is perfection. Everton have Fellani, even Anichebe seems to score on his rare outings (4 goals to our main forwards 6) but yeah they have done well. Chelsea have Lampard and Mata who have scored over 10, now they have Ba obviously, even the youngster they loaned out who has 12 league goals. Arsenal have Walcott, Carzola, even Giroud has scored 9. Defoe still has 10, that Gareth Bale lad seems to chip in with the odd goal. Wouldn't Dempsey and Sigurdsson be better goalscoring options than we have? Suarez is the top scorer in the league. Gerrard has scored 7, Sturridge 4 since he signed in January. Obviously Cisse's form this season is entirely down to Pardew though, no other explanation. I suppose Moyes is at fault that Jelavic and Mirales haven't been banging them away? Probably not I suspect. To suggest any of these teams don't have a lot more options than us is ridiculous. Where are our goals coming from if we need to change things up? Are we going to realistically get double figures from our centre mids? (maybe Sissoko over a full season), can you see our full backs getting as many as Baines? We have one centre back capable of getting the odd goal, hopefully MYM will be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Ashley will soon tire of buying players to cover for his failings as a manager. We do need another striker, Cisse is far too inconsistent to be our main man, however we need a new manager more. A real manager with this squad would see fighting for 5th every season, not just a one off. It's that simple really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 If there aren't enough goals from elsewhere, that is a fault of the manager. It's neither here nor there whose fault Jelavic's form is - because they win games. That is ultimately the point of a manager, not to get form out of individuals. Far too many people don't seem to understand this. All those teams create lots of chances because of the way they play. That's why they score, who actually puts the ball in the net is irrelevant really. We don't create enough for Cisse, we don't create enough full stop. Even yesterday when we've supposedly been robbed, we've had only two real chances, less than them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I hate this "couldn't have done more today" s****. Even if that were true, which it's not, he doesn't just turn up for work on a Saturday afternoon. It seems to be a very long list of away games that we've "taken positives from" yet failed to win. Why do so many other teams seem very capable of both playing ok and winning the match? Because their players take the chances that are created for them. Manager's fault like So your solution is to buy him even more players? Agreed, it would be insane to have more than 2 capable strikers. Lets stop throwing players at the bloke! Are people seriously expecting options from the bench? Do we think we are Man City or something!!? Swansea brought on Luke Moore They've won a cup and are 8th btw. They also have Michu who has scored about 3 times as many as Cisse, in fact the player they let go in January would be putting up a good fight to start for us right now. Our forward option (no s) off the bench is Shola Ameobi. Not sure how anyone can seriously say we don't need to buy 'even more' players as if our forward line is already well stocked. Wayne Routledge is their joint second highest scorer in the league. Outside of Michu, their most prolific striker is Luke Moore who scored his first goal yesterday. If we need to keep buying players to see results (or goals in this case) then maybe squad depth isn't the issue (it definitely isn't). We created two really good chances for our forwards yesterday, they didn't take them. Cisse has missed a number of good chances this season also. How is not having someone else we can bring in not a problem? I like Marveaux but he isn't exactly a goalscorer so we are left with Shola? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I hate this "couldn't have done more today" s****. Even if that were true, which it's not, he doesn't just turn up for work on a Saturday afternoon. It seems to be a very long list of away games that we've "taken positives from" yet failed to win. Why do so many other teams seem very capable of both playing ok and winning the match? Because their players take the chances that are created for them. Manager's fault like So your solution is to buy him even more players? Agreed, it would be insane to have more than 2 capable strikers. Lets stop throwing players at the bloke! Are people seriously expecting options from the bench? Do we think we are Man City or something!!? Swansea brought on Luke Moore They've won a cup and are 8th btw. They also have Michu who has scored about 3 times as many as Cisse, in fact the player they let go in January would be putting up a good fight to start for us right now. Our forward option (no s) off the bench is Shola Ameobi. Not sure how anyone can seriously say we don't need to buy 'even more' players as if our forward line is already well stocked. Wayne Routledge is their joint second highest scorer in the league. Outside of Michu, their most prolific striker is Luke Moore who scored his first goal yesterday. If we need to keep buying players to see results (or goals in this case) then maybe squad depth isn't the issue (it definitely isn't). We created two really good chances for our forwards yesterday, they didn't take them. Cisse has missed a number of good chances this season also. How is not having someone else we can bring in not a problem? I like Marveaux but he isn't exactly a goalscorer so we are left with Shola? You've gone from "we need more strikers" to "strikers aren't even that important" in that post 10 minutes ago. As you've pointed out, other managers can get goals from players other that their main striker so why can Pardy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Fact is we don't create enough chances in all areas of the game and that is down to the coaching and mindset of the manager. To be honest, we weren't that bad yesterday and haven't been recently but I'm talking about overall. Am I convinced that we're seeing a long term shift? No, more an injection of impetus from the new signings IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Jon you seem to be forgetting that we also had one of the league's top scorers until January and were still losing nearly every week - we've actually improved immeasurably (although still not enough) since he left. How do you explain that if Swansea are 8th just because they have Michu and so don't need depth? Surely when we had Ba, we should have been wining far more than we lost? If Michu got injured, do you think they'd go down? I don't, I think they'd just find different ways to score because they will always create chances due to the way they play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 If there aren't enough goals from elsewhere, that is a fault of the manager. It's neither here nor there whose fault Jelavic's form is - because they win games. That is ultimately the point of a manager, not to get form out of individuals. Far too many people don't seem to understand this. I don't know where you are expecting these goals from with our squad. It's not like we have a number of players who have suddenly stopped scoring since coming here (apart from Cisse this season). Where are the goalscorers in Santon, Debuchy, Colo, Saylor, Perch, Jonas, Tiote, Anita, Shola, Obertan, Marveaux? From a quick look none of this have chipped in many for their clubs. Even players like Cabaye and Sisokko are scoring as many to game or more than they did previously. This is why we need another forward and winger (who can score his share) in the summer. All that said, we have only scored 1 less than any of the teams in the top 8 btw. So he isn't doing THAT bad in getting us goals, we just (as said) don't have the options to change things up at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I hate this "couldn't have done more today" s****. Even if that were true, which it's not, he doesn't just turn up for work on a Saturday afternoon. It seems to be a very long list of away games that we've "taken positives from" yet failed to win. Why do so many other teams seem very capable of both playing ok and winning the match? Because their players take the chances that are created for them. Manager's fault like So your solution is to buy him even more players? Agreed, it would be insane to have more than 2 capable strikers. Lets stop throwing players at the bloke! Are people seriously expecting options from the bench? Do we think we are Man City or something!!? Swansea brought on Luke Moore They've won a cup and are 8th btw. They also have Michu who has scored about 3 times as many as Cisse, in fact the player they let go in January would be putting up a good fight to start for us right now. Our forward option (no s) off the bench is Shola Ameobi. Not sure how anyone can seriously say we don't need to buy 'even more' players as if our forward line is already well stocked. Wayne Routledge is their joint second highest scorer in the league. Outside of Michu, their most prolific striker is Luke Moore who scored his first goal yesterday. If we need to keep buying players to see results (or goals in this case) then maybe squad depth isn't the issue (it definitely isn't). We created two really good chances for our forwards yesterday, they didn't take them. Cisse has missed a number of good chances this season also. How is not having someone else we can bring in not a problem? I like Marveaux but he isn't exactly a goalscorer so we are left with Shola? You've gone from "we need more strikers" to "strikers aren't even that important" in that post 10 minutes ago. As you've pointed out, other managers can get goals from players other that their main striker so why can Pardy? Because we don't have a Walcott, Bale, Mata etc.. in the squad? Is Pardew failing because he hasn't managed to get players who have never scored many goals in their careers suddenly putting away as many as the leagues good forwards? He has certainly managed to get Sissoko chipping in with his fair share, I assume this is another example of a player ignoring Pardew's instructions and doing his own thing though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Jon you seem to be forgetting that we also had one of the league's top scorers until January and were still losing nearly every week - we've actually improved immeasurably (although still not enough) since he left. How do you explain that if Swansea are 8th just because they have Michu and so don't need depth? Surely when we had Ba, we should have been wining far more than we lost? If Michu got injured, do you think they'd go down? I don't, I think they'd just find different ways to score because they will always create chances due to the way they play. We lost yesterday because of a defensive fuck up, if Laudrup planned that then fair play, he really is a special manager. We done enough to win that game, sometimes it just doesn't happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Football doesn't work that way, it's not a spreadsheet where you can just add up all the goals in a squad and that's how many goals you'll end up with. If we play a more expansive attacking game, we'll create more chances and score more goals, that's regardless of the personnel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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