Ashley17 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 If he plays 4-4-2 Pardew is asking for a slating if we lose. Played 4-4-2 at SJP and lose 3-2 after being overrun all night. Switches to 4-3-3 at their place, easy win. It shouldn't even be up for debate for fuck sake, but it will be.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 If he plays 4-4-2 Pardew is asking for a slating if we lose. Played 4-4-2 at SJP and lose 3-2 after being overrun all night. Switches to 4-3-3 at their place, easy win. It shouldn't even be up for debate for f*** sake, but it will be.. not really that easy as it was a nominal 4-3-3 with ben arfa and ba both dropping in a lot and cabaye often being the most forward defensive player with cisse.....the formation wasn't so much the thing as the freedom to move and not to stick rigidly to their positions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 If he plays 4-4-2 Pardew is asking for a slating if we lose. Played 4-4-2 at SJP and lose 3-2 after being overrun all night. Switches to 4-3-3 at their place, easy win. It shouldn't even be up for debate for f*** sake, but it will be.. not really that easy as it was a nominal 4-3-3 with ben arfa and ba both dropping in a lot and cabaye often being the most forward defensive player with cisse.....the formation wasn't so much the thing as the freedom to move and not to stick rigidly to their positions. that's the thing that pisses me off the most well apart from the hoofing it's the obvious lack of movement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 all this talk in another thread about choose a winger for today....what about midfield ? does anita,perch or bigirimana come in or even jonas ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TherealnorthernTOON Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 I'm really puzzled with the formation tbh, when we played 4-3-3 against Bordoux it seemed like we were more assured of the positions etc. like we practiced it more than the 4-4-2 we've been playing lately. We seemed fluid and controlling, Bigirimana charged forward to support the striker but it is easy to see that his talent is at a more defensive position. Would like to hope that we will swap to the 4-3-3 at some stage of the season, the team will click and Pardew will finally realize that the dembas doesn't work together as a two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Probable teams Newcastle United (4-4-2): Krul; Simpson, Coloccini, Williamson, Santon; Ben Arfa, Anita, Cabaye, Gutierrez; Ba, Shola Ameobi. West Bromwich Albion (4-4-1-1): Foster; Tamas, McAuley, Olsson, Ridgewell; Dorrans, Yacob, Mulumbu, Odemwingie; Morrison; Long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Probable teams Newcastle United (4-4-2): Krul; Simpson, Coloccini, Williamson, Santon; Ben Arfa, Anita, Cabaye, Gutierrez; Ba, Shola Ameobi. West Bromwich Albion (4-4-1-1): Foster; Tamas, McAuley, Olsson, Ridgewell; Dorrans, Yacob, Mulumbu, Odemwingie; Morrison; Long. Cue forum meltdown. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 That spells disaster and major rage. I sincerely hope we go 4-3-3 and just finally settle tomorrow. The main reason we've gone 4-4-2 is to get Cissé and Ba in the team. Just leave Cissé out tomorrow and give it a go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Williamson deserves to keep his place after last week Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 If he plays 4-4-2 Pardew is asking for a slating if we lose. Played 4-4-2 at SJP and lose 3-2 after being overrun all night. Switches to 4-3-3 at their place, easy win. It shouldn't even be up for debate for f*** sake, but it will be.. not really that easy as it was a nominal 4-3-3 with ben arfa and ba both dropping in a lot and cabaye often being the most forward defensive player with cisse.....the formation wasn't so much the thing as the freedom to move and not to stick rigidly to their positions. that's the thing that pisses me off the most well apart from the hoofing it's the obvious lack of movement. are they seperate or exclusive though...chicken or egg type of thing....the pardew imponderable....is it the formation or is it the rigidity ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 I'd be angry with that 11. They know nowt, obviously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Is no one fearing a potential Long and Odemwingie partnership against our CB's? flashbacks of high lines and so on... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 That's why Taylor should play. Poor going backwards against quick strikers but a million times better than Willo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Is no one fearing a potential Long and Odemwingie partnership against our CB's? flashbacks of high lines and so on... we didn't play a high line that game, we got suckered in twice and caught. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 That's why Taylor should play. Poor going backwards against quick strikers but a million times better than Willo. That's because Taylor doesn't have the turning circle of an aircraft carrier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Aye a tad harsh to drop Willo but I hope it's done all the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 That's why Taylor should play. Poor going backwards against quick strikers but a million times better than Willo. That's because Taylor doesn't have the turning circle of an aircraft carrier. Clearly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 That spells disaster and major rage. I sincerely hope we go 4-3-3 and just finally settle tomorrow. The main reason we've gone 4-4-2 is to get Cissé and Ba in the team. Just leave Cissé out tomorrow and give it a go. The problem is Cisse is the one who thrives on the whole front line to himself so he can use his movement and predatory instincts to it's full potential so he thrives on 4-3-3. Ba is the one who thrives mostly when he plays behind the main striker and feeds off those around him and thus thrives more on 4-4-2. Neither work in 4-4-2 because they both like to do similar things and don't really compliment each others strengths and in 4-3-3 only really Cisse truly thrives while Ba's goalscoring is limited. If there was a way we could play Ba on the left and introduce swapping of positions and real interchanging of movement then that would be the best for everyone but i don't think Ba likes the role. If he plays 4-4-2 Pardew is asking for a slating if we lose. Played 4-4-2 at SJP and lose 3-2 after being overrun all night. Switches to 4-3-3 at their place, easy win. It shouldn't even be up for debate for f*** sake, but it will be.. not really that easy as it was a nominal 4-3-3 with ben arfa and ba both dropping in a lot and cabaye often being the most forward defensive player with cisse.....the formation wasn't so much the thing as the freedom to move and not to stick rigidly to their positions. that's the thing that pisses me off the most well apart from the hoofing it's the obvious lack of movement. are they seperate or exclusive though...chicken or egg type of thing....the pardew imponderable....is it the formation or is it the rigidity ? It is the formation a bit because 4-3-3 allows more options for a pass and more attacking fluidity due to greater numbers while not risking defensive balance. While in 4-4-2 the players have to be deep to stop defensive inbalance but in the process this causes the 3 portions of the team to be split up so we cannot really pass through teams and almost forces us to be direct. I don't think the players are naturally rigid more the system forces them to be because of the players we have so we cannot be expansive in 4-4-2 and remain defensively solid at the same time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 That spells disaster and major rage. I sincerely hope we go 4-3-3 and just finally settle tomorrow. The main reason we've gone 4-4-2 is to get Cissé and Ba in the team. Just leave Cissé out tomorrow and give it a go. The problem is Cisse is the one who thrives on the whole front line to himself so he can use his movement and predatory instincts to it's full potential so he thrives on 4-3-3. Ba is the one who thrives mostly when he plays behind the main striker and feeds off those around him and thus thrives more on 4-4-2. Neither work in 4-4-2 because they both like to do similar things and don't really compliment each others strengths and in 4-3-3 only really Cisse truly thrives while Ba's goalscoring is limited. If there was a way we could play Ba on the left and introduce swapping of positions and real interchanging of movement then that would be the best for everyone but i don't think Ba likes the role. If he plays 4-4-2 Pardew is asking for a slating if we lose. Played 4-4-2 at SJP and lose 3-2 after being overrun all night. Switches to 4-3-3 at their place, easy win. It shouldn't even be up for debate for f*** sake, but it will be.. not really that easy as it was a nominal 4-3-3 with ben arfa and ba both dropping in a lot and cabaye often being the most forward defensive player with cisse.....the formation wasn't so much the thing as the freedom to move and not to stick rigidly to their positions. that's the thing that pisses me off the most well apart from the hoofing it's the obvious lack of movement. are they seperate or exclusive though...chicken or egg type of thing....the pardew imponderable....is it the formation or is it the rigidity ? It is the formation a bit because 4-3-3 allows more options for a pass and more attacking fluidity due to greater numbers while not risking defensive balance. While in 4-4-2 the players have to be deep to stop defensive inbalance but in the process this causes the 3 portions of the team to be split up so we cannot really pass through teams and almost forces us to be direct. I don't think the players are naturally rigid more the system forces them to be because of the players we have so we cannot be expansive in 4-4-2 and remain defensively solid at the same time. i disagree because either one is basically a 4-5-1 when out of possession. thr more fluidity we have though the harder we are to mark , the more out if oattern the oppo are when they get the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Is 4-4-2 really 4-5-1 out of posession? Sure Ba drops deep on occasion but not often and in any case there's always 3 in midfield at least in 4-3-3 and that's the key to it all tbh. Having 3 in middle means we have more passing options and we are not overrun, that's been the problem more than anything this season not being able to control the midfield battle because basically every team has outnumbered us. In fact i'm not that bothered about 4-3-3 anymore i just want to see 3 midfielders so we are not overrun whether that means 4-3-3 or some other formation i don't care i'm just tired of watching us struggle to string two passes together due to teams outnumbering us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Nervous about this game - there's just something about West Brom. Then again, hopefully we have the confidence of last year's 3-1 to inspire us. If AP bothers to start wutg 4-3-3 we'll win but if he persists with 4-4-fucking-2 then it's a draw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Mole has it spot on. The extra man the opposition has in midfield forces Cabaye to drop deeper alongside Tiote creating a huge gap between midfield and attack forcing us to play long direct balls. It limits our passing options drastically, Cabaye can either go horizontal to Tiote, try and push it out wide if he has an option there or hit it long to our non-target man strikers. Going wide from that position is almost as bad as hitting it long anyway as his options will be Jonas who carries very little offensive threat these days or HBA who by this point will be picking up the ball in his own half. When he gets the ball in our half it's a lot to ask of him to carry it all the way to an attacking position or hold it long enough for Cabaye to catch up with play before being crowded out. edit: This is interesting: http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/08/20/newcastle-2-1-tottenham-pardew-switches-formation-ben-arfa-excels-in-both-systems/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 A fixture we always seem to make a right hash of. 2-2 with a late annoying equaliser from them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 This has the potential to be a pivotal point in our season imo. We've got everyone fit, Pardew can look to play a progressive system based on passing, take the risks knowing that we've got our first choice back 5 there to mop up any loss of possession. Alternatively we can start with Shola and just kick it at him and Ba so it's away from our goal, we might get the result but there's no longevity in that way of playing with these players imo. I could see the thinking behind abandoning the 4-3-3 in favour of getting Ba and Cisse both on the pitch in their favoured position, but we shouldn't be starting Shola in a brainless 4-4-2, we're better than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karjala Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 MUST WIN. Can see us struggling tho, fingers crossed. We need to start getting some wins put together before the Xmas period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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