afar Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I don't understand people who claim that a penalty and a sending off are a 'double punishment'. If you didn't have the sending off people would be hoofing forwards up in the air to stop them scoring all the time. And just keep giving away pelanties ? I understand where Ian is coming from. The history of this law comes from when defenders on the line would simply handle the ball to stop it going in, if I remember rightly, yeah you give away a penalty but at least you have a second chance, if they don't score, your team escapes with just a yellow card. If Ba doesn't score that pen last night, we would have received nothing for the incident. Which would've represented justice, tbh. If you make a mistake and the opponent fails to take advantage of it, that's that. So by cheating you get a second chance for justice to be served then ? The red card acts as a deterrent that stops defenders taking the law into their own hands. Funny cos before the rule was implemented everyone was screaming for it to be introduced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Yes, obviously if the striker is about to certainly score then you're better off clattering them at all costs if you aren't going to get sent off. At least with a penalty there is a chance it might be missed. You need the red card as well. So you need the red card to avoid strikers getting clattered at all costs? It's a man's game, dude. You need the red card to prevent defenders deliberately stopping goals by breaking the laws. If it becomes a rational course of action to do so, you're left with a pretty farcical game. Exactly. What my original post said was that defenders would just deliberately foul forwards all the time, because the penalty might be missed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I don't understand people who claim that a penalty and a sending off are a 'double punishment'. If you didn't have the sending off people would be hoofing forwards up in the air to stop them scoring all the time. And just keep giving away pelanties ? I understand where Ian is coming from. The history of this law comes from when defenders on the line would simply handle the ball to stop it going in, if I remember rightly, yeah you give away a penalty but at least you have a second chance, if they don't score, your team escapes with just a yellow card. If Ba doesn't score that pen last night, we would have received nothing for the incident. Which would've represented justice, tbh. If you make a mistake and the opponent fails to take advantage of it, that's that. We're not talking about mistakes though, removing the red card would open the door for repeated deliberate fouling in the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Yes, obviously if the striker is about to certainly score then you're better off clattering them at all costs if you aren't going to get sent off. At least with a penalty there is a chance it might be missed. You need the red card as well. So you need the red card to avoid strikers getting clattered at all costs? It's a man's game, dude. You need the red card to prevent defenders deliberately stopping goals by breaking the laws. If it becomes a rational course of action to do so, you're left with a pretty farcical game. Exactly. What my original post said was that defenders would just deliberately foul forwards all the time, because the penalty might be missed. And that's exactly why the rule was introduced, because that was happening all the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 There's always a second chance on a playing field anyway. The rule handcuffs refs from making a decision based on common sense. A penalty is fair enough but a red card and a suspension because two players rub shoulders in the area? It's just silly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 There's always a second chance on a playing field anyway. The rule handcuffs refs from making a decision based on common sense. A penalty is fair enough but a red card and a suspension because two players rub shoulders in the area? It's just silly. But logically the ref thought it was a foul, or he wouldn't have given a pen. If he thinks it's a foul, then he has to apply the law. I know what you mean, but I think the occasional situation like this is the price we pay for having a rule in place to stop deliberate dirty defending. On the other hand, I've always though a suspension is way too harsh. No need for it except for violent conduct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 As I said, there's got to be some latitude to apply punishment in addition to the penalty. There's enough officials present to make an informed decision on whether a red is truly warranted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 There's always a second chance on a playing field anyway. The rule handcuffs refs from making a decision based on common sense. A penalty is fair enough but a red card and a suspension because two players rub shoulders in the area? It's just silly. But logically the ref thought it was a foul, or he wouldn't have given a pen. If he thinks it's a foul, then he has to apply the law. I know what you mean, but I think the occasional situation like this is the price we pay for having a rule in place to stop deliberate dirty defending. On the other hand, I've always though a suspension is way too harsh. No need for it except for violent conduct. The suspension I think came in a long time after the law was added. I'm in two minds about it, again it's a deterrent and I think football needs as many of those as it can get. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 They tried to push through a law change in this area earlier in the year but it was rejected by the IFAB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 As I said, there's got to be some latitude to apply punishment in addition to the penalty. There's enough officials present to make an informed decision on whether a red is truly warranted. The one thing players and managers moan about most is consistency and that would throw that out of the window. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henke Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 How's about when a player gets sent off the video goes to the fa and they issue the suspension on a case by case basis. 0 game for incidents like last night, up to 5 games for two footed airborn craziness. 10 games for mackems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 By the letter of the law it was a penalty and a red card imo. The punishment is so severe though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Far more concerned about diving and the fact players get away with it far, far more than they should. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Ba's wayward shot in the first half, came right at me in row QQ . That's how shit it was First time in 3 seasons anything has came my way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Far more concerned about diving and the fact players get away with it far, far more than they should. Me too, ruining the game basically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 How's about when a player gets sent off the video goes to the fa and they issue the suspension on a case by case basis. 0 game for incidents like last night, up to 5 games for two footed airborn craziness. 10 games for mackems. You are talking about consistency again and if they did this there would be calls from fans straight away complaining of biased towards this team or that or big clubs getting all the calls and so on. Best to keep it simple with a hard fast rule, there is an appeals process in place already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Far more concerned about diving and the fact players get away with it far, far more than they should. Agreed. Not nearly enough cards given out for 'simulation'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Was an absolutely embarrassing decision, tbh. Was favourable for us, so I couldn't really care, but the fact that penalties and red cards are being dished out for shoulder challenges just shows how laughable the rules have become. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I can understand why Wigan might have thought the penalty decision was harsh because Cisse only got in front of the defender by a whisker. But he did get in front of him so it wasn't a shoulder charge, which is what those arguing the decision are trying to say. So it was a pen, not really much to debate for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Ba's wayward shot in the first half, came right at me in row QQ . That's how s*** it was First time in 3 seasons anything has came my way. You sound disappointed you don't get hit in the face by the ball every other week Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Far more concerned about diving and the fact players get away with it far, far more than they should. Seems they are brandishing more yellow cards this season, tbf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Far more concerned about diving and the fact players get away with it far, far more than they should. Agreed. Not nearly enough cards given out for 'simulation'. I think a lot of it is too hard for the referee to be 100% sure about. It won't be stopped unless we bring in video review and retrospective punishment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Don't even thing Cisse would have got to the ball anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Retrospective would be fair, absolutely despise diving, even from our own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Ba's wayward shot in the first half, came right at me in row QQ . That's how s*** it was First time in 3 seasons anything has came my way. You sound disappointed you don't get hit in the face by the ball every other week I just want to heed the ball once in my lifetime and get a cheer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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