What is success for you - in the long term?

[Toonpack]

Dunno, if you managed to qualify for the CL, for example, I'd call that a success.

 

Villarreal were a successful club in the mid-late 2000s without ever winning a trophy.

 

So not "real" success then on two fronts, qualifying for another competition you have no chance of winning and winning nowt.

 

Dunno, they played great football, with some world class players plying their trade there, like Riquelme or Rossi; challenged for La Liga and got far in the cups, even getting to the CL semis... I think any Villarreal fan will look back at that with pride.

 

I don't disagree, it's just a reflection of "today" that not winning/being the best is generally accepted as "success", that lowering of expectation has and does help cement the "really" succesfull above the rest. Fans, Sponsors, The media all now accept 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc is the new winning stuff. Sad IMO.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

What was it like 30 years ago, did every club genuinely start the season trying to win the league? I agree the CL places have become too important, but presumably there have always been different tiers of club?

 

Would be interesting to hear from people with more knowledge of history than me.

[Incognito]

There aren't many inspirational managers with a connection to Newcastle knocking around though, I think it's pretty harsh to compare everyone to Keegan and Bobby.

 

Kind of agree with that.

 

They set the standards to what a club the size we are should be. But the Prem landscape has altered ridiculously since even Sir Bobby was in charge. Still think though, that bottom half of the table is unacceptable mind.

[Tooj]

There aren't many inspirational managers with a connection to Newcastle knocking around though, I think it's pretty harsh to compare everyone to Keegan and Bobby.

 

They are the role models for what we should be looking for in a manager. Hughton wasn't anywhere near as inspirational as either of those but he seemed to get it to.

[Village Idiot]

What was it like 30 years ago, did every club genuinely start the season trying to win the league? I agree the CL places have become too important, but presumably there have always been different tiers of club?

 

Would be interesting to hear from people with more knowledge of history than me.

 

The UEFA Cup was a much bigger deal, and at least in La Liga it was open to most clubs to challenge for it. Of course there were the relegation battlers too.

[Guest neesy111]

Only one team can win the league, there has to be success beyond just winning things. Otherwise nearly every team fails nearly every season.

 

Indeed, was Keegan's first stint a failure? Or Sir Bobby's? Pretty sure not.

 

Nowhere near.  What Keegan did 1st time was bordering on miracle status and I'll say this we didn't win anything but the football we played was the next best thing, my father says it was a honor to see the football we played between 93-96.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

To be able to sit down on a Saturday and enjoy watching NUFC.

[Tooj]

I honestly don't even think you can compare what Bobby did to what Keegan did. As yes Bobby did an excellent job, but the foundations were already there for him to build on. What Keegan done was an absolute miracle and due to the way football in this country has now changed is something that we'll probably never see again.

[Toonpack]

What was it like 30 years ago, did every club genuinely start the season trying to win the league? I agree the CL places have become too important, but presumably there have always been different tiers of club?

 

Would be interesting to hear from people with more knowledge of history than me.

 

Well if Nottingham Forest and Derby (with the aid of inspirational management) can win the league (and in the case of Forest - and Villa for that matter - be Champions of Europe) I would say not all, but many, had more chance if maybe not expectation.

 

Every team wanted to win the FA cup as well, and put out teams with that in mind.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

I honestly don't even think you can compare what Bobby did to what Keegan did. As yes Bobby did an excellent job, but the foundations were already there for him to build on. What Keegan done was an absolute miracle and due to the way football in this country has now changed is something that we'll probably never see again.

 

 

Exceptionally lucky that when football underwent its early 90's expansion we had Keegan at the helm.

[merlin]

There aren't many inspirational managers with a connection to Newcastle knocking around though, I think it's pretty harsh to compare everyone to Keegan and Bobby.

 

Kind of agree with that.

 

They set the standards to what a club the size we are should be. But the Prem landscape has altered ridiculously since even Sir Bobby was in charge. Still think though, that bottom half of the table is unacceptable mind.

There aren't many inspirational managers with a connection to Newcastle knocking around though, I think it's pretty harsh to compare everyone to Keegan and Bobby.

 

Kind of agree with that.

 

They set the standards to what a club the size we are should be. But the Prem landscape has altered ridiculously since even Sir Bobby was in charge. Still think though, that bottom half of the table is unacceptable mind.

 

Its only altered in that some other clubs have richer and more ambitious owners than we do - some of these don't even have a stadium to match ours OR the crowds.

[merlin]

We'll win something in my lifetime. I honestly have no idea how I will react to it; it'll be such an alien thing.

 

I don't want this to sound like I don't want us to win something (because obviously I do; it's up there on the bucket list as it is for everyone else), but I have a bizarre trepidation towards the event; purely down to the fact it might not be the greatest day of my life, or whatever. For example, I can't bare the thought of seeing us win the cup and not actually being there, at Wembley. Or not being at SJP when the final whistle goes when we've won the league. I'd probably be as jealous as I was elated.

 

I think it's because I've witnessed, first-hand, the club atop a podium with a trophy in our hands - and it not come close to anything like the best feeling ever. It wasn't even the best feeling that season. Obviously, that's because it was having won a league we should never have competed in (you know what I mean); but I've always had this peculiar sense of 'worry' since that day.

 

This post makes me sound like an ungrateful, pessimistic douche and that's probably a fair summary; given there are die-hard supporters here who've never even been to the city, never mind seen us lift a trophy on our pitch. There are also supporters who've been going to the game longer than I have, who have witnessed us amidst some terrible times, who arguably have more 'right' to be there than I do, on the day we've won something.

 

It's a terrible thing to categorise supporters of the same club and it's something I sincerely look down on ('superfans' are rubbish), but I'd be devastated not to witness a real 'success' with my own eyes; and - rightly or wrongly - "I should've been there, not Mr X, Y or Z" would cross my mind at some point.

 

I'm open to being chastised for this viewpoint, it is incredibly selfish.

 

I think I've mentioned before that after every Yankee win, I realize that the journey is better than the destination. Every time they win, I remember this.

 

I mean, obviously...seeing your team win is better than not seeing them win.

 

It's very difficult to understand what happiness should be in a sport with no post-season. I enjoyed the Championship season more than any of the other...six or seven I've been a fan for. Of course we were winning loads of games, though. So I guess winning is happiness. Who the hell knows.

 

Try waiting 44 years before winning anything and then see if the journey is still better than the destination...!

[Toonpack]

There aren't many inspirational managers with a connection to Newcastle knocking around though, I think it's pretty harsh to compare everyone to Keegan and Bobby.

 

Kind of agree with that.

 

They set the standards to what a club the size we are should be. But the Prem landscape has altered ridiculously since even Sir Bobby was in charge. Still think though, that bottom half of the table is unacceptable mind.

There aren't many inspirational managers with a connection to Newcastle knocking around though, I think it's pretty harsh to compare everyone to Keegan and Bobby.

 

Kind of agree with that.

 

They set the standards to what a club the size we are should be. But the Prem landscape has altered ridiculously since even Sir Bobby was in charge. Still think though, that bottom half of the table is unacceptable mind.

 

Its only altered in that some other clubs have richer and more ambitious owners than we do - some of these don't even have a stadium to match ours OR the crowds.

 

Ambitious to do what ?? Not win the league obviously as that is beyond reach.

 

If I had Ashley's cash I wouldn't put more in than he has already, seriously what's the point.

 

NUFC is a huge club, and has by that very fact has an advantage over many others, but ONLY on a level playing field, hopefully FFP will help. If that doesn't work, we're going nowhere, so again from a hand in the pocket perspective - "what's the point".

 

I just don't worry about the bigger picture anymore, there is absolutely no point, enjoy the games (or not, as the case is just now) as they happen, over and above that......

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Same, the bigger picture is totally futile, but the weekly football is still interesting.

[arnonel]

Id love for us to be a consistantly top 8 club. Some seasons challenging for top 4.

 

Most importantly, id love to be watching more Ben Arfa's and getting genuinely excited to watch a game. Waiting in anticipation for 3 "Ben Arfa's" in a game to produce some brilliance. Thats enough for me.

 

 

[Mistle17]

Long term, get back to how good we were at our peak under Sir Bobby. Challenging for the title and hopefully win something (this mainly, just win something...anything). I still think that team in this season could challenge for the title, too.

[The College Dropout]

Dunno, if you managed to qualify for the CL, for example, I'd call that a success.

 

Villarreal were a successful club in the mid-late 2000s without ever winning a trophy.

 

So not "real" success then on two fronts, qualifying for another competition you have no chance of winning and winning nowt.

 

Dunno, they played great football, with some world class players plying their trade there, like Riquelme or Rossi; challenged for La Liga and got far in the cups, even getting to the CL semis... I think any Villarreal fan will look back at that with pride.

 

I don't disagree, it's just a reflection of "today" that not winning/being the best is generally accepted as "success", that lowering of expectation has and does help cement the "really" succesfull above the rest. Fans, Sponsors, The media all now accept 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc is the new winning stuff. Sad IMO.

 

 

I look back on the SBR reign with great pride. The best thing we did there was challenge for the league into the second half of the season a couple times, reach the second round of the CL once and a UEFA Cup semi-final. Still a Golden Era for NUFC when you look at it. In terms of European football, we are probably 3rd /4th tier.

[cp40]

I think all ashley had to do, after last seasons 5th and europa qualification, was enough to get us 9th or upwards and perform in the cups. He didnt do enough.

[BottledDog]

The concept of being a part of 20 team league and having no ambition to win it should be fucking alien.

 

Cannot believe how readily accepted it is, although I do understand it. Horrendous. Thought there'd be more dafties like me kicking around.

 

Do you not accept it though? FWIW I agree it's sad, but the problem is with the league not us.

 

Not long-term I don't, which is what the question is. Might as well not bother.

 

Surely the whole point of football is to try and win stuff? Especially the domestic league.

 

Course it's the point, but the current situation in the league makes it virtually

impossible. Whether or not people will start to think of football as pointless remains to be seen. For me, it just about offers enough on a weekly basis to help me forgot how futile the bigger picture is.

 

Obviously it needs to be done in steps, but it can be done. In our current model we'd need to get into the CL first to garner the revenue/status necessary to get the class players in/keep our current ones, of course. It's naturally a lot easier if you've got someone chucking money at it.

 

Spurs operate a similar way and got relatively close to challenging at the top, mind. They're still up there amongst it now despite a rocky period, although of course they're not in the title race right at this moment.

 

I dunno, taking a long-term view I just don't see why a club of this size shouldn't be trying to compete at the top-level and harbouring the aim of winning the PL.

 

Spurs will have a bigger stadium and revenue will go through the roof in a few years too when they've their new ground.

 

They already have around double our matchday revenue don't they?

 

We may have a big stadium, but we are way behind the London clubs in terms of the money generated per seat.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

That's good though, isn't it? Because we keep prices lower.

[Guest Wally_McFool]

What was it like 30 years ago, did every club genuinely start the season trying to win the league? I agree the CL places have become too important, but presumably there have always been different tiers of club?

 

Would be interesting to hear from people with more knowledge of history than me.

 

Tell you what, I'm old enough to remember Man utd being shit and their ex- idol Denis Law relegating them. I remember the mighty "Tottingham" going down as well.

Happy days! 

[BottledDog]

That's good though, isn't it? Because we keep prices lower.

 

It's bloody great to have reasonable prices, wouldn't ever want that to change. Doesn't help us to be any more competitive with the richer clubs though.

[cp40]

What was it like 30 years ago, did every club genuinely start the season trying to win the league? I agree the CL places have become too important, but presumably there have always been different tiers of club?

 

Would be interesting to hear from people with more knowledge of history than me.

 

 

30 years ago we were in our 5th season? in the 2nd div. the club was on the up and pushing for promotion with Kevin Keegan . we went up the following season. At the top of the Game- Liverpool were as dominant- probs moreso than Man Utd are now. with the Likes of Forest Villa challenging, iirc Man Utd were no where near winning the league with Bo jangles in charge.

[leffe186]

What was it like 30 years ago, did every club genuinely start the season trying to win the league? I agree the CL places have become too important, but presumably there have always been different tiers of club?

 

Would be interesting to hear from people with more knowledge of history than me.

 

 

30 years ago we were in our 5th season? in the 2nd div. the club was on the up and pushing for promotion with Kevin Keegan . we went up the following season. At the top of the Game- Liverpool were as dominant- probs moreso than Man Utd are now. with the Likes of Forest Villa challenging, iirc Man Utd were no where near winning the league with Bo jangles in charge.

 

Liverpool were still pretty dominant, but Man U weren't actually that far behind. Worth remembering that Heysel was just round the corner, and that signalled the rise of Everton. There were a lot of teams squabbling behind Liverpool, and they changed considerably each season. For example, the top six in 82-83 was: Liverpool, Watford, Man U, Spurs, Forest, Villa. The following year: Liverpool, Southampton, Forest, Man U, QPR, Arsenal. That's nine different teams in two years. In comparison, nine different teams have filled the Top six for the last six years - Man U, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City, Villa, Everton...and you guys last year.

 

Liverpool were very strong, but if there's only one team at that level there's more of a chance to break in. And, of course, the European Cup money was pitiful compared to that available nowadays (and nothing at all while we were banned). What's scary is that it seems to be becoming harder to break into the top six, let alone think about contending.

[Incognito]

To do what Keegan did, take a team threatened with relegation from the Championship to a side challenging consistently for the Prem title in 18 months doesn't get anywhere near the kudos it should from people except for  us lot.