Mole_Toonfan Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 It's a fair point IMO. Carr is still held up as some kind of scouting god when in reality I don't think his strike rate is any more impressive than is usual at a Premier League club. He's obviously got good contacts which allows us to occasionally sign players for relatively low fees but the thing that's benefitted most from that to date is the balance sheet. Yep. Swansea have probably had better recruitment over the same period of time along with Southampton. They also have had much better coaches, not just the managers but across the board. I can pretty much guarantee the majority of the signings those clubs made would have been flops in the Pardew/Carver regime. No other scout would be under so much scrutiny, hell i don't know any other scouts name. He's only known and under scrutiny (if you say so) because of the bumming he's had in the past. Well that's true, but at the same time he didn't deserve that praise and probably doesn't deserve to be criticized at the same time. He's a scout with good contacts who usually finds value for money players, most of the time they are actually good players apart from like Riveire and some shit. MYM and Cabella for example were good players, once he's suggested them it's up to the management staff to get the best from them. If they can't it's not really his fault unless of course they clearly utter shite, but more often than not ( feel free to disagree) i don't believe they are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 It's hard to blame Carr imho for some of the players who didn't make an impact. It's equivalent to buying an F1 car and letting George Michael drive it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 We're still not adding to the squad depth….nothing changes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Looking forward to having a genuine winger in the team, I have to admit. Though I'm concerned it means Aarons is even less likely to play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I have said before but fuck squad depth, we don't even have a good first eleven yet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 We sign very talented players but some are clearly not really suited to the Premier League. Some fantastic players haven't quite done it week in, week out in this league and that will always be the case, doesn't make them poor players. We sign good players but not all of them adapt for one reason or another, it's not an exact science. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 A general question, what did Thauvin do to the Marseille mob that had em wanting to lynch him so badly? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenny Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Looking forward to having a genuine winger in the team, I have to admit. Though I'm concerned it means Aarons is even less likely to play. We've been so starved of anything that resembles depth for so long we panic at the thought of having options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sho Time Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Looking forward to having a genuine winger in the team, I have to admit. Though I'm concerned it means Aarons is even less likely to play. We've been so starved of anything that resembles depth for so long we panic at the thought of having options. This. At least as far as midfield/attack is concerned... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 A general question, what did Thauvin do to the Marseille mob that had em wanting to lynch him so badly? you mean on that video? Pretty sure that's Lille fans. They hate him because he signed for them and then whinged his way out without ever playing a game.' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Know next to nowt about this guy but can't imagine he'll have less of an impact than Cabella. Meh towards the whole thing while we continue to have a horribly frail defence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Know next to nowt about this guy but can't imagine he'll have less of an impact than Cabella. Meh towards the whole thing while we continue to have a horribly frail defence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 A general question, what did Thauvin do to the Marseille mob that had em wanting to lynch him so badly? you mean on that video? Pretty sure that's Lille fans. They hate him because he signed for them and then whinged his way out without ever playing a game.' Sure I read that the Marseille fans were spitting on him as well though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinport53 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 A general question, what did Thauvin do to the Marseille mob that had em wanting to lynch him so badly? you mean on that video? Pretty sure that's Lille fans. They hate him because he signed for them and then whinged his way out without ever playing a game.' Aye, the video that went around was Lille fans at an airport chanting abuse at him. Some OM staff weren;t happy like Although I did read an article the other day about the OM fans spitting on Thauvin's car as he left the game after Caen beat them. Edit: http://whatculture.com/sport/newcastle-target-florian-thauvin-spat-on-by-marseille-fans.php Doesn't say why like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Would have been interesting to see Thauvin play on one wing and Ben Arfa on the other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BONTEMPI Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Would have been interesting to see Thauvin play on one wing and Ben Arfa on the other. Arfa Thauvin Just like the coin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 It's a fair point IMO. Carr is still held up as some kind of scouting god when in reality I don't think his strike rate is any more impressive than is usual at a Premier League club. He's obviously got good contacts which allows us to occasionally sign players for relatively low fees but the thing that's benefitted most from that to date is the balance sheet. Speaking to a Sunderland fan today and he said he would kill to be in our position. I don't doubt Villa supporters are any different. Spending big is great if you do it properly like we did back in Sir John Hall's day, but even then he used the club's money to fund it. It's always about the balance sheet at the end of the day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Carr is employed because he knows a great deal about players' contract situations as much as he knows about their ability... Coupled together he's arguably our or Ashley's most valuable asset. He has helped the club sign some very talented players but Pardew and Carver helped ruin a good number of them. McClaren and co won't stunt player development in the same way and while the jury is out on all of our signings, they will not go the way of Santon, Mbiwa, Ben Arfa etc. The likes of Rivierre were right at the very bottom of Carr's list, these new players are probably more at the very top. My worry is that these players as talented as they may be, need a whole host of things go their way to succeed and I'm concerned that all we are doing is buying potential. We have never under Ashley bought an established player who you can put you money on so to speak and that's because we would never pay the going rate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I'd argue whoever is in charge of scouting for Southampton should be held up in some regard. Sadio Mane, Fonte, Lovren, Tadic, Pelle, Bertrand, etc. Regarding our setup - I still believe Carr is a great scout with some brilliant contacts. But I think our entire setup was always hindered with our aged training facilities, lack of backroom support staff at all levels, and poor manager. Had the backbone been invested immediately and aggressively coupled with a progressing forward thinking manager capable of getting the best out of 5M-12M signings to compete at the very highest level as well as "Sell-On" value to then recycle capital into players, youth academy grads, etc - the model has legs to work. We never did any of that shit and paired these players with Pardew. The scouting probably fine, the chairman or technical director lacking (our chairmen being fucking idiots) not knowing football and not having a manager with a clue on how to build a squad with these unique players always hindered us. You pair Carr's scouting/contacts + Southampton's squad building abilities + Football people + Proper Manager you get results. All well in good if you can find players but you're going to be operating with both hands tied behind your back when your striker shortlist of 5 people is widdled down and you sign emergency #7. You miss out on #2 b/c you didn't feel like paying 3M more or some 3rd party agent wanted you to grease him or whatever. You then just sign any player who is on the list and figure it out later with Alan fucking Pardew. You then have a chairman who can't do a fucking deal to save his life getting rid of players on these odd season long loan with commitments to buy so hey, try out our player and if he returns to form and you love him and he becomes a world beater or we have an injury crisis we can't take him back. tl;dr - but our shambolic setup can be partially blamed when you try to analyze Carr - he's done some 50-50s but needs a win on some brilliant players sooner than later IMO but I can't help but feel we've wasted far too much talent with the idiots we have working with these players or doing deals for players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Carr has done a pretty fantastic job TBH. Have to bare in mind that Yanga-Mbiwa should be playing instead of Colo, Ben Arfa instead of Obertan and we should have Santon as a option at LB as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Another point that's been made before but worth repeating given this discussion is that Carr doesn't decide who we sign. He has a list of players and a say but it's not as if we just go out and get the top name he suggests. Or at least we haven't in the past. If we had we wouldn't be signing the likes of Riviere, we'd have signed Lacazette instead for instance.. I think his record is excellent personally considering what we've been prepared to pay for players in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Interesting podcast on the transfer. http://gib2504.hipcast.com/deluge/gib2504-20150818040840.mp3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Southampton and Swansea's scouting always seems ace because they both have stable, functioning football clubs. They have a continuity in decision making at board level and style of play that they want to see on the pitch. They continually sign players to fit into their system and to fill positions they need. They sell a player and they buy a replacement they've already had lined up. It is a constant rejuvenation and squad building process. Ours by comparison is a mess that reflects the lack of knowledge and stability at board level and the lack of an ingrained style of play. We change our supposed policy every summer, replace players on 1-2 year delays, sign players we don't need because they're cheap etc etc. Not to mention we have no real actual footballing ethos running through the club, resulting in players who don't settle and get worse playing for us. Carr is only one bloke. I'm sure he knows his football and can spot decent players, but that doesn't change the fact he's one man picking footballers for a PL club in a global game. It's inevitable our competitive edge is limited if we're scouting 2-3 countries with a budget that has us quickly moving onto our 3rd and 4th choices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 The more concise version of what I was saying, nice post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbnufc Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Interesting podcast on the transfer. http://gib2504.hipcast.com/deluge/gib2504-20150818040840.mp3 Hate to say it, but everyone other than other Newcastle fans who I've heard speak about Thauvin (Marseille fans, Ligue 1 watchers and just other neutrals) have echoed these guys' thoughts about him. I've seen him a few times for Marseille and havent been particularly impressed. Especially for €17m. I'm only up to 7:30 on the podcast, I assume they don't suddenly change their thoughts though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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