Alan Pardew

[Mattoon]

May I just ask these supastats, do they count all the hoofs we make as long balls or are they perhaps considered also or alternatively as clearances?

[Guest Dontooner]

This is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard....well done.

 

So. In October it was clear that we played more long balls than anyone else.

 

Pardew was rightly criticized.

 

In the last 3 months we've played less long balls than all but a few teams. I take that as an improvement.

 

But Pardew is still criticised because even though we use much less long balls, those that we do use are poor quality.

 

Your complaint is not about the quantity of long balls but the quality?  You don't want him to play on the deck necessarily?

 

Less doesn't mean they are any better, and i dispute your stats, stats mean nothing and for to keep using them toward me is not going to work. They are still aimless punts which we dont win. We have a Cisse, so unsuited to a long ball aimed at him it's untrue, but yet we still persisited. Now i want us to play good football, possession football. That doesn't mean all tippy tappy, a mixture. Like i say, which you and your chums seem to be dismissing, a longer pass is fine, now if Andy Carroll say was up top i've no doubt he would turn a aimless long ball into a decent one. But i want us to play short, fast controlled possession football, with lots of movement.

 

Now this is where you have avoided answering, Pardew throughout his career has never got any of his team to do this, so why should he get anymore time. We are more than two years into his reign and our football has got worse and worse. He isn't going to change, Jesus our set pieces tell you all you need to know about his lack of imagination.

 

If he stays, we will continue to play boring, direct, non possession percentage football. Which might be slightly better if we sign a Andy Carroll type suited to it. But i, as someone who wanted him gone over 6 months ago because if there's anything i hate, it's poor football and that mate is exactly what Pardew gives you.

 

I don't think you have understood my posts. Sorry I've not been clearer.

 

Pardew has recently managed to get his team playing less long balls than almost all other teams in the league.

 

As they have started playing a more passing game results have also improved.

 

Given time, as the new players settle more and Pardew hopefully decides who will play where this interplay will hopefully improve.

 

It doesn't happen from one game to the next.  But in putting a stop to the goofball that we were playing the first step has been taken.

 

Would genuinely give you a benefit of doubt if you really feel we would improve footballing wise.

Personally i still think Pardew would have had his last game at Arsenal..

[Guest bimpy474]

This is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard....well done.

 

So. In October it was clear that we played more long balls than anyone else.

 

Pardew was rightly criticized.

 

In the last 3 months we've played less long balls than all but a few teams. I take that as an improvement.

 

But Pardew is still criticised because even though we use much less long balls, those that we do use are poor quality.

 

Your complaint is not about the quantity of long balls but the quality?  You don't want him to play on the deck necessarily?

 

Less doesn't mean they are any better, and i dispute your stats, stats mean nothing and for to keep using them toward me is not going to work. They are still aimless punts which we dont win. We have a Cisse, so unsuited to a long ball aimed at him it's untrue, but yet we still persisited. Now i want us to play good football, possession football. That doesn't mean all tippy tappy, a mixture. Like i say, which you and your chums seem to be dismissing, a longer pass is fine, now if Andy Carroll say was up top i've no doubt he would turn a aimless long ball into a decent one. But i want us to play short, fast controlled possession football, with lots of movement.

 

Now this is where you have avoided answering, Pardew throughout his career has never got any of his team to do this, so why should he get anymore time. We are more than two years into his reign and our football has got worse and worse. He isn't going to change, Jesus our set pieces tell you all you need to know about his lack of imagination.

 

If he stays, we will continue to play boring, direct, non possession percentage football. Which might be slightly better if we sign a Andy Carroll type suited to it. But i, as someone who wanted him gone over 6 months ago because if there's anything i hate, it's poor football and that mate is exactly what Pardew gives you.

 

I don't think you have understood my posts. Sorry I've not been clearer.

 

Pardew has recently managed to get his team playing less long balls than almost all other teams in the league.

 

As they have started playing a more passing game results have also improved.

 

Given time, as the new players settle more and Pardew hopefully decides who will play where this interplay will hopefully improve.

 

It doesn't happen from one game to the next.  But in putting a stop to the goofball that we were playing the first step has been taken.

 

 

I accept we may have played less long passes. What you seem to not grasp. In some of those games we had less possession, obviously meaning less passing. Now you have to study every game in detail, for possession, for where that possession mainly was on the pitch. You can't factor that into an overall stat, the ones you are using.

 

In my post Chez, i would say with a hell a lot of arrogance, that i've no doubt i watch our games more than anyone else. I watch them over and over, if you did the same you would know that the stats you are using are just nonsense to what my eyes see and my rather educated football brain tell me.

[Interpolic]

Or more than likely be ignored, just as I was when I pulled him up on his 'Shola's our best option from the bench' rubbish.

Didnt you suggest Anita as an alternative?

 

I thought HF's point was just that we dont have a striker on the bench of a better quality than Shola, hence pointing to squad depth. Shola seems to come on in response to us playing it long, not the other way round. If that is the case then bringing on Anita would be odd.

 

As for your point about how wonderful the arguments have been on here, surely the end of the season, with all the stats, facts and figures to hand is a good time to reflect on whatever has been said before?

 

I find it incredibly farfetched to think that Pardew sees us resorting to long ball and hoys Shola on to utilise it, and I'm amazed you don't. Players panicking and reverting to a style that isn't historically suited to them individually when a goal up or drawing just seems like absolute rubbish to me. It's far more feasible that the instruction comes from the bench.

 

They panic so much that even when the ball is dead and we have a free kick in our own half, they load the box and the keeper aims for Mike Williamson, despite the manager (surely) yelling at them from the touchline to play a short pass and keep the ball moving.

 

I think something that everything can agree on is that Pardew's football isn't exactly expansive and on the whole he likes to keep things tight, i.e. not go hell for leather.  However we've seen time and time again that we sit on a lead and the argument appears to be whether that's led by the players or the manager.

 

It's clear as day that we sit deeper and give up on going forward when ahead or in a drawing position against a better side and as I say I find it difficult to accept that we do that because the players aren't confident enough to attack the game anymore.  We did it numerous times last year when the players were full of confidence.

Think the substitutions towards the end are also a clear  indication, it was from instructions.

 

Well I was fucking raging at West Ham when he brought Ben Arfa and Gouffran off for Shola and Gosling.  I saw with my own eyes that we were the better team without being particularly incisive for 60 minutes, then gave up on our chances offensively, and beyond that were in danger for the first time in the game.

 

That's what gets me, we risk losing games by sitting back and inviting pressure like that.  Especially when we're low on confidence.

[Unbelievable]

2 wins in 10, including losing two home matches by an aggregate of 9-0. That's quite an improvement.

 

Stats don't work in football don't you know?

[Dave]

2 wins in 10, including losing two home matches by an aggregate of 9-0. That's quite an improvement.

 

Stats don't work in football don't you know?

 

Points are quite important as it happens.

[Guest Dontooner]

Would be happy for Carrol to be back and Shola to be gone.

 

Whats the funny part?? Shola ever leaving??

Depress if thats the joke...

 

Just goes completely without saying, no? Carroll's a very good CF and exactly what we need. Shola's a talentless nothing with a dodgy hip.

Just a cheap joke mate

[Guest bimpy474]

Or more than likely be ignored, just as I was when I pulled him up on his 'Shola's our best option from the bench' rubbish.

Didnt you suggest Anita as an alternative?

 

I thought HF's point was just that we dont have a striker on the bench of a better quality than Shola, hence pointing to squad depth. Shola seems to come on in response to us playing it long, not the other way round. If that is the case then bringing on Anita would be odd.

 

As for your point about how wonderful the arguments have been on here, surely the end of the season, with all the stats, facts and figures to hand is a good time to reflect on whatever has been said before?

 

I find it incredibly farfetched to think that Pardew sees us resorting to long ball and hoys Shola on to utilise it, and I'm amazed you don't. Players panicking and reverting to a style that isn't historically suited to them individually when a goal up or drawing just seems like absolute rubbish to me. It's far more feasible that the instruction comes from the bench.

 

They panic so much that even when the ball is dead and we have a free kick in our own half, they load the box and the keeper aims for Mike Williamson, despite the manager (surely) yelling at them from the touchline to play a short pass and keep the ball moving.

 

I think something that everything can agree on is that Pardew's football isn't exactly expansive and on the whole he likes to keep things tight, i.e. not go hell for leather.  However we've seen time and time again that we sit on a lead and the argument appears to be whether that's led by the players or the manager.

 

It's clear as day that we sit deeper and give up on going forward when ahead or in a drawing position against a better side and as I say I find it difficult to accept that we do that because the players aren't confident enough to attack the game anymore.  We did it numerous times last year when the players were full of confidence.

Think the substitutions towards the end are also a clear  indication, it was from instructions.

 

Well I was fucking raging at West Ham when he brought Ben Arfa and Gouffran off for Shola and Gosling.  I saw with my own eyes that we were the better team without being particularly incisive for 60 minutes, then gave up on our chances offensively, and beyond that were in danger for the first time in the game.

 

That's what gets me, we risk losing games by sitting back and inviting pressure like that.  Especially when we're low on confidence.

 

Spot on.

[Happy Face]

2 wins in 10, including losing two home matches by an aggregate of 9-0. That's quite an improvement.

 

After losing 10 out of 13 league games.  Only losing 6 in 14 is much improved. Aye.

[Unbelievable]

2 wins in 10, including losing two home matches by an aggregate of 9-0. That's quite an improvement.

 

Stats don't work in football don't you know?

 

Points are quite important as it happens.

 

Nah, just another stat. Football matches should be decided on aesthetic grounds.

[Dave]

2 wins in 10, including losing two home matches by an aggregate of 9-0. That's quite an improvement.

 

Stats don't work in football don't you know?

 

Points are quite important as it happens.

 

Nah, just another stat. Football matches should be decided on aesthetic grounds.

 

Oh dear.

[ChezGiven]

Less long balls were played but we were still shit. Does that summarise what happened?

Basically. He was trying to address it but we were still woeful.

[Mole_Toonfan]

A proper 4-3-3 of

 

Debuchy Colo MYM Santon

 

Sissoko Tiote Cabaye

 

HBA Cissé Gouffran

 

Would be bloody brilliant. Shame we'll never see it under current management.

 

It might look good on paper, but there's few goals, no threat from set pieces, Cheick Tiote, and a lack of physicality in CD. We're gonna have to accept that the current squad is a work in progress in need of investment and replacement.

 

I don't really agree with the first part, I think that team does have goal in it. Cisse, Gouff and Ben Arfa all score goals and Siss and Cabaye can ship in a few as well. I do think we need to strengthen and from what has been seen I do agree that MYM and Colo can't play together.

 

That team would always score goals if the manager in question gave license to get bodies forward when in possession.

 

Look at Swansea, Routledge suddenly scores and creates goals by the bucketload same goes for Maloney at Wigan because they allowed to join the centre forward when in possession.

 

Of course it won't score goals if we are deep and not allowed to join the attack very often, Bale is another example no coincidence since he was allowed to be high up the pitch his goal rate went up.

 

Its not a coincidence.

 

Cisse aside, none of those players have ever really been consistent goalscores. And we certainly won't ever see the best of Cisse unless we get creativity either side of him.

 

None of the players i mentioned were either until they were allowed to be close to goal at a consistent basis, i'm a firm believer that if you get midfielders constantly supporting in and around the box when in possession then your goal rate improves.

 

 

[Guest bimpy474]

Less long balls were played but we were still shit. Does that summarise what happened?

Basically. He was trying to address it but we were still woeful.

 

Spot on.

[midds]

We've scored less, lost more, won less and conceded more than ever. The performances have been so poor that I've considered jacking the season ticket in next year. His football is awful, doesn't entertain anyone and going to the game simply isn't enjoyable for me any more, I go more out of duty and a misguided obligation rather than in the expectation of, god forbid, seeing a Newcastle team attacking the opposition.

 

Not one player has improved in the last year, his tactics are cowardly, sterile and negative. His use of substitutions are as baffling as they are negative. The regression is results and performances has been shockingly bad, the squad and the players are going backwards at a rate of knots and the worrying thing is that Pardew looks helpless to stop it. One look at his CV shows that this pattern has been repeated elsewhere - start well, initial success followed by a tailing off process that ultimately ends in the sack.

 

I've lost all faith in him turning this around and I'd rather he wasn't allowed to take us further backwards than he already has done. It's a matter of 'when', not 'if' he goes now. This repair job is beyond him. If other have got more patience in him putting it right and getting us back in to top 6 or 7 next season then fair play, I've had enough though. 

[Guest Dontooner]

2 wins in 10, including losing two home matches by an aggregate of 9-0. That's quite an improvement.

 

After losing 10 out of 13 league games.  Only losing 6 in 14 is much improved. Aye.

Love your optimism, love your Avatar which shows bravery when three inmates politely ask to wash your ass and relax.

[Guest bimpy474]

We've scored less, lost more, won less and conceded more than ever. The performances have been so poor that I've considered jacking the season ticket in next year. His football is awful, doesn't entertain anyone and going to the game simply isn't enjoyable for me any more, I go more out of duty and a misguided obligation rather than in the expectation of, god forbid, seeing a Newcastle team attacking the opposition.

 

Not one player has improved in the last year, his tactics are cowardly, sterile and negative. His use of substitutions are as baffling as they are negative. The regression is results and performances has been shockingly bad, the squad and the players are going backwards at a rate of knots and the worrying thing is that Pardew looks helpless to stop it. One look at his CV shows that this pattern has been repeated elsewhere - start well, initial success followed by a tailing off process that ultimately ends in the sack.

 

I've lost all faith in him turning this around and I'd rather he wasn't allowed to take us further backwards than he already has done. It's a matter of 'when', not 'if' he goes now. This repair job is beyond him. If other have got more patience in him putting it right and getting us back in to top 6 or 7 next season then fair play, I've had enough though. 

 

No stats to back this up 

[ChezGiven]

This is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard....well done.

 

So. In October it was clear that we played more long balls than anyone else.

 

Pardew was rightly criticized.

 

In the last 3 months we've played less long balls than all but a few teams. I take that as an improvement.

 

But Pardew is still criticised because even though we use much less long balls, those that we do use are poor quality.

 

Your complaint is not about the quantity of long balls but the quality?  You don't want him to play on the deck necessarily?

 

Less doesn't mean they are any better, and i dispute your stats, stats mean nothing and for to keep using them toward me is not going to work. They are still aimless punts which we dont win. We have a Cisse, so unsuited to a long ball aimed at him it's untrue, but yet we still persisited. Now i want us to play good football, possession football. That doesn't mean all tippy tappy, a mixture. Like i say, which you and your chums seem to be dismissing, a longer pass is fine, now if Andy Carroll say was up top i've no doubt he would turn a aimless long ball into a decent one. But i want us to play short, fast controlled possession football, with lots of movement.

 

Now this is where you have avoided answering, Pardew throughout his career has never got any of his team to do this, so why should he get anymore time. We are more than two years into his reign and our football has got worse and worse. He isn't going to change, Jesus our set pieces tell you all you need to know about his lack of imagination.

 

If he stays, we will continue to play boring, direct, non possession percentage football. Which might be slightly better if we sign a Andy Carroll type suited to it. But i, as someone who wanted him gone over 6 months ago because if there's anything i hate, it's poor football and that mate is exactly what Pardew gives you.

 

I don't think you have understood my posts. Sorry I've not been clearer.

 

Pardew has recently managed to get his team playing less long balls than almost all other teams in the league.

 

As they have started playing a more passing game results have also improved.

 

Given time, as the new players settle more and Pardew hopefully decides who will play where this interplay will hopefully improve.

 

It doesn't happen from one game to the next.  But in putting a stop to the goofball that we were playing the first step has been taken.

 

 

I accept we may have played less long passes. What you seem to not grasp. In some of those games we had less possession, obviously meaning less passing. Now you have to study every game in detail, for possession, for where that possession mainly was on the pitch. You can't factor that into an overall stat, the ones you are using.

 

In my post Chez, i would say with a hell a lot of arrogance, that i've no doubt i watch our games more than anyone else. I watch them over and over, if you did the same you would know that the stats you are using are just nonsense to what my eyes see and my rather educated football brain tell me.

Why add that second bit? An idiot can watch something over and over and still be an idiot. Your arrogance does you down, one thing i know about people is that the more they say they are clever, the less likely it is to be true.

 

Thats the second time i've seen this line or argument in this thread in 24 hours. 'You're wrong because i am cleverer than you'. Take it from me, its not working.

[Mick]

 

 

I don't think you have understood my posts. Sorry I've not been clearer.

 

Pardew has recently managed to get his team playing less long balls than almost all other teams in the league.

 

As they have started playing a more passing game results have also improved.

 

Given time, as the new players settle more and Pardew hopefully decides who will play where this interplay will hopefully improve.

 

It doesn't happen from one game to the next.  But in putting a stop to the goofball that we were playing the first step has been taken.

 

 

Pardew has recently given us our worst home defeat to the mackems since 1978, next home game he delivered our worst home defeat in 87 years.

 

Things are really looking up.

[Unbelievable]

We've scored less, lost more, won less and conceded more than ever. The performances have been so poor that I've considered jacking the season ticket in next year. His football is awful, doesn't entertain anyone and going to the game simply isn't enjoyable for me any more, I go more out of duty and a misguided obligation rather than in the expectation of, god forbid, seeing a Newcastle team attacking the opposition.

 

Not one player has improved in the last year, his tactics are cowardly, sterile and negative. His use of substitutions are as baffling as they are negative. The regression is results and performances has been shockingly bad, the squad and the players are going backwards at a rate of knots and the worrying thing is that Pardew looks helpless to stop it. One look at his CV shows that this pattern has been repeated elsewhere - start well, initial success followed by a tailing off process that ultimately ends in the sack.

 

I've lost all faith in him turning this around and I'd rather he wasn't allowed to take us further backwards than he already has done. It's a matter of 'when', not 'if' he goes now. This repair job is beyond him. If other have got more patience in him putting it right and getting us back in to top 6 or 7 next season then fair play, I've had enough though. 

 

I don't think there are many posters who wouldn't want Pardew sacked and replaced by a better manager if presented with that option; we're pretty much all in agreement this season has been a huge disappointment/underachievement. Just some of us don't go overboard with the Pardew criticism to the point of personal abuse or not accepting any mitigating circumstances, and acknowledge it is highly unlucky Ashley will sack Pardew (due to the stability guff they came out with a mere 8 months ago) and replace with a better manager (based on his track record in this area).

[duo]

2 wins in 10, including losing two home matches by an aggregate of 9-0. That's quite an improvement.

With a full squad at his disposable as well.  But I think there were leafs on the pitch.

[NEEJ]

 

 

I don't think you have understood my posts. Sorry I've not been clearer.

 

Pardew has recently managed to get his team playing less long balls than almost all other teams in the league.

 

As they have started playing a more passing game results have also improved.

 

Given time, as the new players settle more and Pardew hopefully decides who will play where this interplay will hopefully improve.

 

It doesn't happen from one game to the next.  But in putting a stop to the goofball that we were playing the first step has been taken.

 

 

Pardew has recently given us our worst home defeat to the mackems since 1978, next home game he delivered our worst home defeat in 87 years.

 

Things are really looking up.

Be quiet Mick, we're no longer losing 10 out of 13 games. For that we should be eternally grateful.

[ChezGiven]

 

 

I don't think you have understood my posts. Sorry I've not been clearer.

 

Pardew has recently managed to get his team playing less long balls than almost all other teams in the league.

 

As they have started playing a more passing game results have also improved.

 

Given time, as the new players settle more and Pardew hopefully decides who will play where this interplay will hopefully improve.

 

It doesn't happen from one game to the next.  But in putting a stop to the goofball that we were playing the first step has been taken.

 

 

Pardew has recently given us our worst home defeat to the mackems since 1978, next home game he delivered our worst home defeat in 87 years.

 

Things are really looking up.

If you take those two results out, then things were. They were disgraceful enough to wipe out whatever progress had been made from before Christmas but up to that point it looked like things were improving.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

We've scored less, lost more, won less and conceded more than ever. The performances have been so poor that I've considered jacking the season ticket in next year. His football is awful, doesn't entertain anyone and going to the game simply isn't enjoyable for me any more, I go more out of duty and a misguided obligation rather than in the expectation of, god forbid, seeing a Newcastle team attacking the opposition.

 

Not one player has improved in the last year, his tactics are cowardly, sterile and negative. His use of substitutions are as baffling as they are negative. The regression is results and performances has been shockingly bad, the squad and the players are going backwards at a rate of knots and the worrying thing is that Pardew looks helpless to stop it. One look at his CV shows that this pattern has been repeated elsewhere - start well, initial success followed by a tailing off process that ultimately ends in the sack.

 

I've lost all faith in him turning this around and I'd rather he wasn't allowed to take us further backwards than he already has done. It's a matter of 'when', not 'if' he goes now. This repair job is beyond him. If other have got more patience in him putting it right and getting us back in to top 6 or 7 next season then fair play, I've had enough though. 

 

Ah don't be so down man, statistically we are playing fewer long balls these days.

[Guest bimpy474]

This is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard....well done.

 

So. In October it was clear that we played more long balls than anyone else.

 

Pardew was rightly criticized.

 

In the last 3 months we've played less long balls than all but a few teams. I take that as an improvement.

 

But Pardew is still criticised because even though we use much less long balls, those that we do use are poor quality.

 

Your complaint is not about the quantity of long balls but the quality?  You don't want him to play on the deck necessarily?

 

Less doesn't mean they are any better, and i dispute your stats, stats mean nothing and for to keep using them toward me is not going to work. They are still aimless punts which we dont win. We have a Cisse, so unsuited to a long ball aimed at him it's untrue, but yet we still persisited. Now i want us to play good football, possession football. That doesn't mean all tippy tappy, a mixture. Like i say, which you and your chums seem to be dismissing, a longer pass is fine, now if Andy Carroll say was up top i've no doubt he would turn a aimless long ball into a decent one. But i want us to play short, fast controlled possession football, with lots of movement.

 

Now this is where you have avoided answering, Pardew throughout his career has never got any of his team to do this, so why should he get anymore time. We are more than two years into his reign and our football has got worse and worse. He isn't going to change, Jesus our set pieces tell you all you need to know about his lack of imagination.

 

If he stays, we will continue to play boring, direct, non possession percentage football. Which might be slightly better if we sign a Andy Carroll type suited to it. But i, as someone who wanted him gone over 6 months ago because if there's anything i hate, it's poor football and that mate is exactly what Pardew gives you.

 

I don't think you have understood my posts. Sorry I've not been clearer.

 

Pardew has recently managed to get his team playing less long balls than almost all other teams in the league.

 

As they have started playing a more passing game results have also improved.

 

Given time, as the new players settle more and Pardew hopefully decides who will play where this interplay will hopefully improve.

 

It doesn't happen from one game to the next.  But in putting a stop to the goofball that we were playing the first step has been taken.

 

 

I accept we may have played less long passes. What you seem to not grasp. In some of those games we had less possession, obviously meaning less passing. Now you have to study every game in detail, for possession, for where that possession mainly was on the pitch. You can't factor that into an overall stat, the ones you are using.

 

In my post Chez, i would say with a hell a lot of arrogance, that i've no doubt i watch our games more than anyone else. I watch them over and over, if you did the same you would know that the stats you are using are just nonsense to what my eyes see and my rather educated football brain tell me.

Why add that second bit? An idiot can watch something over and over and still be an idiot. Your arrogance does you down, one thing i know about people is that the more they say they are clever, the less likely it is to be true.

 

Thats the second time i've seen this line or argument in this thread in 24 hours. 'You're wrong because i am cleverer than you'. Take it from me, its not working.

 

It's not about being clever, it's about common sense which you and HF seem not to have (in the watching us sense). You are both simply wrong. You deny what your eyes are telling you, yet want to believe stats that tell you nothing.

 

By the way, there's nothing personal in this, didn't want you to think it was. This is the place to discuss this stuff whatever your views.