Alan Pardew

[Guest Roger Kint]

Cancelled his phone in tomorrow?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Cancelled his phone in tomorrow?

 

Postponed until after Arsenal, announced yesterday or the day before.

[loki679]

Isn't the difference that most of those continental managers earn their stripes on the training pitch first.  Managing youth teams or assisting other managers.  Learning their trade.

 

The likes of Hughes, Bruce, Pardew and Souness walk straight into high profile jobs, spending no time off the radar where they can make mistakes, learn from them and come into a top job a more educated manager.  They come into it having only observed management from a players perspective.

 

Moyes earned his stripes taking a club about to be relegated from division 2 up to the playoffs for a place in the Premier league.  He had the respect of players at PNE as a player that had played at the top.  He had the respect of Everton players for what he did at PNE.  He'll have the respect of man U players for what he did at Everton.

 

There's nothing a Newcastle player can respect about Pardew at all.

 

I think you're spot on there.  Ferguson had his time at Aberdeen, Moyes at Preston, Wenger managed over in Japan for a while as I remember.  Even O'Neill (as shit as he was in his later years, he was decent when he was younger) did his time at Wycombe and Leicester.

[Ikon]

He's gone!

[David Icke - Son of God]

He's gone!

 

To London?

[Guest Roger Kint]

Cancelled his phone in tomorrow?

 

Postponed until after Arsenal, announced yesterday or the day before.

 

Ah ok, only just seen it now. Its going to look a daft decision if we get twatted on Sunday. He would have got an easier ride tomorrow thats for sure.

[Happy Face]

Isn't the difference that most of those continental managers earn their stripes on the training pitch first.  Managing youth teams or assisting other managers.  Learning their trade.

 

The likes of Hughes, Bruce, Pardew and Souness walk straight into high profile jobs, spending no time off the radar where they can make mistakes, learn from them and come into a top job a more educated manager.  They come into it having only observed management from a players perspective.

 

Moyes earned his stripes taking a club about to be relegated from division 2 up to the playoffs for a place in the Premier league.  He had the respect of players at PNE as a player that had played at the top.  He had the respect of Everton players for what he did at PNE.  He'll have the respect of man U players for what he did at Everton.

 

There's nothing a Newcastle player can respect about Pardew at all.

 

I think you're spot on there.  Ferguson had his time at Aberdeen, Moyes at Preston, Wenger managed over in Japan for a while as I remember.  Even O'Neill (as shit as he was in his later years, he was decent when he was younger) did his time at Wycombe and Leicester.

 

Aye, there's nowt to say that a manager will be any good at the very top level, even if he does spend years learning the job before he accepts a big offer, that takes something special.  But he's much more likely to succeed if he HAS been learning the job.  Mourinho wasn't onyour list either...learned from the best

 

I'd be interested to listen to someone more knowledgable than me about the penchant for appointing past players with no manegerial experience straight into a management role with tens of millions of pounds at stake.  Is it a recent development?  First I can think of is Dalglish at Liverpool.  I always thought he was con artist, whether inheriting the greatest team in English football to win trophys there or inheriting all the money he wanted to do it at Blackburn.

[loki679]

He's gone!

 

If this isn't true Ikon needs to be sent to a sunderland strip club with his eyelids glued open as punishment.

[Dr Venkman]

Or more than likely be ignored, just as I was when I pulled him up on his 'Shola's our best option from the bench' rubbish.

Didnt you suggest Anita as an alternative?

 

 

I thought HF's point was just that we dont have a striker on the bench of a better quality than Shola, hence pointing to squad depth. Shola seems to come on in response to us playing it long, not the other way round. If that is the case then bringing on Anita would be odd.

 

If that was point then why did he say 'Stoke sent Shola back 5 years ago....and he's still our best threat from the bench.'?

 

He's clearly not our best threat. I said 'even Anita' in an advanced position would be more of a threat, even discounting the other options. This notion that Shola comes on to make the best of the long ball game our players have taken it upon themselves to play is just nonsense. Remember when we were lucky enough to hear Pardew on the side line at Anfield last season? 'Hit Ba, Hit Ba!'. That's just one example.

 

 

As for your point about how wonderful the arguments have been on here, surely the end of the season, with all the stats, facts and figures to hand is a good time to reflect on whatever has been said before?

 

Meh

[Stu]

The day we can close this thread will be a thing of beauty. I pray that the radio show cancellation is a good sign

 

has the phone in been cancelled?

 

 

Perfectly played, sir.

 

 

Awwww, you always quote me, or respond to my posts. Its real sweet.

 

Pretty sure I quoted huss9's post then again, at least it's someone else quoting your own post, rather than you quoting yourself again and again to finally get someone's attention

 

The TotalSport phone in been put back until a date "after the Arsenal game".  Means fuck all probably

 

Hey guys!

 

I thought my Pardew TotalSport post would have broke the discussion up. I've failed.

 

Guys! I said hello!

 

The TotalSport phone in been put back until a date "after the Arsenal game".  Means f*** all probably

 

HELLOOOOOO! Anyone listening to me?

 

The day we can close this thread will be a thing of beauty. I pray that the radio show cancellation is a good sign

 

has the phone in been cancelled?

 

I did post earlier but no one answered  yeah been set back and to be "re arranged after the arsenal game"

 

FIIIIIINALLY - I thought you all had me on ignore! Might as well say 'hello' again

 

 

[Wilson]

[Guest icemanblue]

Santoon just got served. He's going to have to hit back with some sick rhymes, here. Somebody give the man a mic.

[Dr Venkman]

This is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard....well done.

 

So. In October it was clear that we played more long balls than anyone else.

 

Pardew was rightly criticized.

 

In the last 3 months we've played less long balls than all but a few teams. I take that as an improvement.

 

But Pardew is still criticised because even though we use much less long balls, those that we do use are poor quality.

 

Your complaint is not about the quantity of long balls but the quality?  You don't want him to play on the deck necessarily?

 

Less doesn't mean they are any better, and i dispute your stats, stats mean nothing and for to keep using them toward me is not going to work. They are still aimless punts which we dont win. We have a Cisse, so unsuited to a long ball aimed at him it's untrue, but yet we still persisited. Now i want us to play good football, possession football. That doesn't mean all tippy tappy, a mixture. Like i say, which you and your chums seem to be dismissing, a longer pass is fine, now if Andy Carroll say was up top i've no doubt he would turn a aimless long ball into a decent one. But i want us to play short, fast controlled possession football, with lots of movement.

 

Now this is where you have avoided answering, Pardew throughout his career has never got any of his team to do this, so why should he get anymore time. We are more than two years into his reign and our football has got worse and worse. He isn't going to change, Jesus our set pieces tell you all you need to know about his lack of imagination.

 

If he stays, we will continue to play boring, direct, non possession percentage football. Which might be slightly better if we sign a Andy Carroll type suited to it. But i, as someone who wanted him gone over 6 months ago because if there's anything i hate, it's poor football and that mate is exactly what Pardew gives you.

 

I don't think you have understood my posts. Sorry I've not been clearer.

 

Pardew has recently managed to get his team playing less long balls than almost all other teams in the league.

 

Has he? Haven't the players just decided to do it because they feel more comfortable? Why is that line of argument acceptable sometimes and not others?

 

As they have started playing a more passing game results have also improved.

 

 

Given time, as the new players settle more and Pardew hopefully decides who will play where this interplay will hopefully improve.

 

It doesn't happen from one game to the next.  But in putting a stop to the goofball that we were playing the first step has been taken.

 

 

The first step was taken at the end of last season when we played pretty well for about 6 games, Pardew shit himself and went back to what he's comfortable with. What makes you think he's suddenly going to change?

[KDT]

Too wishful thinking that the talk-in has been postponed till after a possible meeting between Pardew and Dekka/MA as it would look a bit daft him speaking in public and then being sacked a few days after?

 

 

[Wilson]

Yeah. He's going nowhere.

[KDT]

Yep, hope killing once again.

[Lotus]

Isn't the difference that most of those continental managers earn their stripes on the training pitch first.  Managing youth teams or assisting other managers.  Learning their trade.

 

The likes of Hughes, Bruce, Pardew and Souness walk straight into high profile jobs, spending no time off the radar where they can make mistakes, learn from them and come into a top job a more educated manager.  They come into it having only observed management from a players perspective.

 

Moyes earned his stripes taking a club about to be relegated from division 2 up to the playoffs for a place in the Premier league.  He had the respect of players at PNE as a player that had played at the top (for a short while), played at the club, before becoming a coach, then assistant manager and then manager.  He had the respect of Everton players for what he did at PNE.  He'll have the respect of man U players for what he did at Everton.

 

There's nothing a Newcastle player can respect about Pardew at all.

 

I said this a while ago. I reckon that's why Pardew gets so buddy buddy with the players, don't think he has any leverage with them otherwise!

[Happy Face]

Has he? Haven't the players just decided to do it because they feel more comfortable? Why is that line of argument acceptable sometimes and not others?

 

There is a clear trend to play less long balls as the season has gone on.  It becomes most pronounced after January, when we brought in technically better players, so absolutely, yes, a lot of it is players being more comfortable, passing it out of defence.  But Pardew needed those more capable players to be brought in.

 

Comparing the long balls per game stats of key players highlights this...

 

Long balls ber game

 

Simpson 69/19 = 3.6

Williamson 93/19 = 4.9

Taylor 88/24 = 3.7

Perch 81/27 = 3

Combined = 331/89 = 3.7

 

Debuchy 24/13 = 1.8

Mbiwa 52/13 = 4

Haidara 0/4 = 0

Sissoko 30/12 = 2.5

Combined = 106/42 = 2.5

 

This does not necessarily mean we don't try to hit the big man up top, of course.  We still loft balls into the box an awful lot, and it fails over and over again.  But in terms of playing out of defence and getting towards the final third there has been a marked improvenment.

 

The first step was taken at the end of last season when we played pretty well for about 6 games, Pardew shit himself and went back to what he's comfortable with. What makes you think he's suddenly going to change?

 

I would hope he would have an extra strike option (or 2) at the start of next season.  When he had Ba and Best, we would play 442 very effectively.  With Ba and Cisse 433 looked canny for a run of games. I'm interested to see who he brings in and what he does with them.

[mrmojorisin75]

There is a clear trend to play less long balls as the season has gone on.  It becomes most pronounced after January, when we brought in technically better players, so absolutely, yes, a lot of it is players being more comfortable, passing it out of defence.  But Pardew needed those more capable players to be brought in.

 

so i take it that you have a tacit acceptance that pardew cannot coach a basic passing game into players with rudimentary technique then, that he has to be handed the finished article and even then he's not very good with it?

[Wullie]

Isn't the difference that most of those continental managers earn their stripes on the training pitch first.  Managing youth teams or assisting other managers.  Learning their trade.

 

The likes of Hughes, Bruce, Pardew and Souness walk straight into high profile jobs, spending no time off the radar where they can make mistakes, learn from them and come into a top job a more educated manager.  They come into it having only observed management from a players perspective.

 

Moyes earned his stripes taking a club about to be relegated from division 2 up to the playoffs for a place in the Premier league.  He had the respect of players at PNE as a player that had played at the top.  He had the respect of Everton players for what he did at PNE.  He'll have the respect of man U players for what he did at Everton.

 

There's nothing a Newcastle player can respect about Pardew at all.

 

I think you're spot on there.  Ferguson had his time at Aberdeen, Moyes at Preston, Wenger managed over in Japan for a while as I remember.  Even O'Neill (as shit as he was in his later years, he was decent when he was younger) did his time at Wycombe and Leicester.

 

Aye, there's nowt to say that a manager will be any good at the very top level, even if he does spend years learning the job before he accepts a big offer, that takes something special.  But he's much more likely to succeed if he HAS been learning the job.  Mourinho wasn't onyour list either...learned from the best

 

I'd be interested to listen to someone more knowledgable than me about the penchant for appointing past players with no manegerial experience straight into a management role with tens of millions of pounds at stake.  Is it a recent development?  First I can think of is Dalglish at Liverpool.  I always thought he was con artist, whether inheriting the greatest team in English football to win trophys there or inheriting all the money he wanted to do it at Blackburn.

 

It is interesting but Pardew doesn't fit into this category, he's just one in a long line of managers who brought a club out of the second tier then turned out to be a bit shite and vanished again. He's Aidy Boothroyd, he's Phil Brown, Iain Dowie, Owen Coyle. He was already on his way to his natural level when Ashley dredged him off the bottom of the river. He was a compete nobody as a player and definitely can't be counted alongside the other examples you give.

 

You have a point though. The most ridiculous thing is that whenever a manager is plucked from the lower leagues it's always some big name like Ince or Di Canio, whilst someone you've never heard of is actually doing a better job somewhere down there.

[Hanshithispantz]

I wonder if that article could be a new refuge for Pardew fans. 'You want rid of a manager that was touted for the Man City job?'

 

I don't think there are any "Pardew fans". 

 

There are people that believe Pardew's definitely not going to be any better next season and want rid, happy to let the chips fall where they may. 

 

There are others that believe the mitigating circumstances of this season suggest he could do better.  Combined with the risk involved whenever Ashley gets involved in making an appointment, we  might do better next season by leaving the current manager in place.  If he doesn't show any signs of sorting our problems early on, then his position will become untenable.

This is where your argument falls apart though, I don't think there's a person on this site who would argue that Pardew hasn't quite had the luck of the draw, and if it wasn't for the many injuries, and if Ashley invested £20m in the Summer we probably wouldn't have had quite the disastrous season that we had. Everyone recognises this.

 

However - and you can use your "evidence based deductions" here - what if we have similar problems next season? What if Cabaye, HBA, Cisse & Coloccini do all leave and the new recruits to replace them either are not brought in or just flop? He struggles massively as it is without the latter. What if after 45 minutes players (in your own words) continue to tire in matches, panic, and resort to sitting 5 yards from our goal-line frantically trying to hoof the ball as far from their presence as possible? What if his savior Jonas Gutierrez continues to diminish and is no longer capable of preventing us falling to 6 and 7 goal scorelines?

 

I know you believe that Ashley isn't capable of bringing in a manager fit enough to deal with any of this stuff any better than Pardew is, I just don't know how you can also feel that Pardew will be backed enough (and with the right personnel) from this point forward? In response to an argument solely based on "I just don't think that will happen as it has not happened before", then what is there that Mike Ashley has done that suggests to you that there will not be a repeat of this season? Even if we do miraculously stumble into 5th/6th and therefore into Pardew's personal hell next year, what is there to suggest that the extra games in the following season won't be equally as fatal to us than they are now?

 

Ultimately Pardew has shown himself to be a manager not fit for purpose with me, and I'd much rather take the gamble of him being replaced by a more suitable guy than I would him taking the reigns again for the foreseeable future. We're just delaying the inevitable and at the very best halting our progress, and I agree that it's entirely Mike Ashley's fault.

[Stu]

The quoting myslelf was clearly a joke, an experienced WUM such as yourself should have got that.  Still thanks for the love, i can always count on you to talk to me on here. You're my safe bet. and I thank you for that

 

 

[BrettNUFC]

We're just delaying the inevitable and at the very best halting our progress, and I agree that it's entirely Mike Ashley's fault.

 

This is pretty much it for me. Very close to being a fact.

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Hans, there are a lot of 'what if' arguments in your post, they don't necessarily mean that Pardew should be sacked. What if they don't happen? What if a new manager comes in and they happen anyway, or something even worse?

 

Dealing in hypothetical situations is interesting to a certain extent, but it doesn't really go towards showing whether Pardew should be sacked or not. We have this season and last season to go on, and we'll have to draw our conclusions from that. 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

This fewer long balls stat post January is seriously meaningless and proves nowt.

 

If HF is advocating that Pardew is clearly changing his methods based on these stats one could argue a whole host of other factors as to why there has been fewer long balls post January such as an influx of new players who haven't been infected by Pardew's long ball mantra at that point, wind making it difficult to launch long balls, tired opposition given us more time on the ball, and so on and so on. Again, its such a pointless stat that proves nowt other than whey hey, we are playing fewer long balls. Quick get the champagne out...

 

That's like someone with a shitty car having nicer wheels than they used to have. The car is still shit!

 

The only indicative stat we need to look at is the league table, our wins or lack of, draws, defeats, goals conceded and goals scored. Then look at our performances. That will give you the clearest indication of Pardew's ability or rather lack of ability and why many on here are not ony championing for him to go but see no reason whatsoever why things are suddenly going to change for the better.

 

Getting back to the fewer long balls/up turn in results post January thing... that for me was clearly down to the new arrivals. Yet as soon as Pardew had them for more than a few games, we revert back to type and start losing games again. That and the likes of Sissoko who looked a beast the first few weeks he was here, now looking more like a fucking chicken. Pardew's negative ways effecting their game and with it our game.