Alan Pardew

[Darth Crooks]

If someone could just put up what's allowed in the way of discussion, that would be nice. Even better would a multiple choice thingy saving me the bother of typing too much.

 

Example : That Pardew eh ?

 

Answers :

1. He's s***

2. Bang average

3. c***

4. Sexy c***

5. Hater

6. f*** and don't post you c***

7 Leave my Dad alone

 

That sort of thing.

 

I'm a 5.

 

Thanks for clarifying that Mick. We don't want there to be any uncertainty about where you stand on the Pardew issue 

 

6

[madras]

If someone could just put up what's allowed in the way of discussion, that would be nice. Even better would a multiple choice thingy saving me the bother of typing too much.

 

Example : That Pardew eh ?

 

Answers :

1. He's s***

2. Bang average

3. c***

4. Sexy c***

5. Hater

6. f*** you and don't post you c***

7 Leave my Dad alone

 

That sort of thing.

definite 8 for me.

[madras]

Shola Ameobi and Obertan getting minutes over HBA? Come on.

 

Especially when the logic doesn't make sense. Obertan was brought on over HBA to help protect the left side and it actually ended up weakening us.

In that instance, there was literally no excuse for not bringing on Ben Arfa.

there was like, personally I'd have brought colo on and tried to push the full backs on 10yds or so especially as they caught santon loads with the ball played inside him.

 

really can't see any reason FOR bringing ben arfa on last weekend.

 

When you have a team pushing forwards and leaving lots of space to exploit behind, I would think a player like ben Arfa would certainly be worth considering as part of the mix.

they didn't really leave a load of space for a ben arfa type player to exploit, that would call for movement and someone to work along the line or at least someone to work off the ball. not ben arfas strong points

 

If a team is pressing forward for an equaliser there is always space behind to exploit. Why would you need someone to work along the line to do that? You just put someone with some pace and ability to run at a stretched back four and an eye for goal. Get one of the other 11 to cover the lines.

because if you just keep lobbing the ball over in the hope that that player will get to it first it will more often than not come straight back at you, far better try and play it for possession and in that scenario ben arfa isn't what you need.

 

Why do you need to lob it in the first place? I can remember when we last finished in a CL place one of our best outlets was Solano who used to pick the ball up from deep defensive positions then thread the ball through to Dyer who broke forward at pace in loads of space to exploit against the opposition who were pressing forward.

dyers (and solanos) movement was far superior to ben arfas, more of it and much more intelligent. ball at their feet, good as they were ben afa would murder them but doing the basics to get the ball in that situation I just don't think he'd be good enough at it.

 

oh aye, and usually that was when we were chasing the game rather than the oppo chasing the game. at that time I was quite happy going in to the last 15 level or trailing by one as we had the legs to do anyone, as a team we don't now.

 

The reason I mentioned Solano is because without someone who could keep his head and play the ball out from defensive positions, Dyer would have looked pretty much a passenger as well. That's where the problem lies, we don't do that strategically, because as has been mentioned by mrmojorisin, we aren't coached that way. Our set up is still most effective when we hit the ball long from the back, and in that scenario HBA isn't going to look good, and you can understand why Pardew prefers Obertan.

i fear you are massively over simplifying things, we had a team who were comfortable on the ball and had numerous "get outs", as much as I like cabaye,anita and tiote has recovered some form, neither are what you'd call an escape ball which means the escapee has to do more than what ben arfa gives off the ball. also as I've said dyer gave himself better options to be passed to because of his pace and movement, ben arfa doesn't come alive UNTIL he has the ball which is too late in this situation.

 

got to totally disagree with the idea that we are most effective when hitting long balls from the back, we've been at our best this season when dominating games and then being organised when out of possession.

 

 

 

HBA has got his faults which I've brought up myself, namely holds the ball too long and doesn't track back very enthusiastically, but I wouldn't put lack of movement off the ball down as a weakness. He's one of the few who regularly shows for the ball, the problem is he doesn't give it back once he's got it. But on the break against a team pressing up the pitch I haven't noticed him being any less keen to get behind the defence than Obertan. I'm sure he'd far prefer to run at tiring defences when the games opened up than go up against two defenders as is usually the case when he starts.

 

I don't think Ben Arfa holding onto the ball too long can entirely be blamed on him, if anything its the lack off movement off the ball from other players which often prevents him from releasing it. Put him back on the right and give him Remy or Gouffran to feed into in the centre and I think you'd see a different game from him.

 

That is presuming he isn't told to keep the ball and show us a bit of "magic"

strangely the movement has been there when he's been out, especially movement just to keep possession, to the point that i'm seeing the"nobody moves for him" argument to be little more than an excuse for him, also, showing for the ball is vastly different to good movement.

[cp40]

If someone could just put up what's allowed in the way of discussion, that would be nice. Even better would a multiple choice thingy saving me the bother of typing too much.

 

Example : That Pardew eh ?

 

Answers :

1. He's shit

2. Bang average

3. Cunt

4. Sexy Cunt

5. Hater

6. Fuck you and don't post you cunt

7 Leave my Dad alone

 

That sort of thing.

 

 

you missed out - understandibly doing better without the extra workload of europe.

[Guest bimpy474]

If someone could just put up what's allowed in the way of discussion, that would be nice. Even better would a multiple choice thingy saving me the bother of typing too much.

 

Example : That Pardew eh ?

 

Answers :

1. He's shit

2. Bang average

3. Cunt

4. Sexy Cunt

5. Hater

6. Fuck you and don't post you cunt

7 Leave my Dad alone

 

That sort of thing.

 

 

you missed out - understandibly doing better without the extra workload of europe.

 

4 would cover that....

[cp40]

If someone could just put up what's allowed in the way of discussion, that would be nice. Even better would a multiple choice thingy saving me the bother of typing too much.

 

Example : That Pardew eh ?

 

Answers :

1. He's shit

2. Bang average

3. Cunt

4. Sexy Cunt

5. Hater

6. Fuck you and don't post you cunt

7 Leave my Dad alone

 

That sort of thing.

 

 

you missed out - understandibly doing better without the extra workload of europe.

 

4 would cover that....

 

 

ah   ok.

 

Im not gay or owt tho.

[Guest bimpy474]

If someone could just put up what's allowed in the way of discussion, that would be nice. Even better would a multiple choice thingy saving me the bother of typing too much.

 

Example : That Pardew eh ?

 

Answers :

1. He's shit

2. Bang average

3. Cunt

4. Sexy Cunt

5. Hater

6. Fuck you and don't post you cunt

7 Leave my Dad alone

 

That sort of thing.

 

 

you missed out - understandibly doing better without the extra workload of europe.

 

4 would cover that....

 

 

ah   ok.

 

Im not gay or owt tho.

 

to think another man is sexy isn't gay. I think.

[Elliottman]

Eh?

 

[Mick]

 

 

Thanks for clarifying that Mick. We don't want there to be any uncertainty about where you stand on the Pardew issue 

 

No problem, anything to remove the possibility of doubt.

[Mick]

strangely the movement has been there when he's been out, especially movement just to keep possession, to the point that i'm seeing the"nobody moves for him" argument to be little more than an excuse for him, also, showing for the ball is vastly different to good movement.

 

Are you trying to say that we don't have a lack of movement from our players when Ben Arfa has the ball. 

[madras]

strangely the movement has been there when he's been out, especially movement just to keep possession, to the point that i'm seeing the"nobody moves for him" argument to be little more than an excuse for him, also, showing for the ball is vastly different to good movement.

 

Are you trying to say that we don't have a lack of movement from our players when Ben Arfa has the ball. 

for a long time we had a lack of movement whoever had the ball, it was only used as an excuse for ben arfa though, this season we've had much more movement, however i've noticed ben arfa still getting the benefit when he's had options but held on too it for too long, fwiw ben arfa is as bad if not worse than most for his movement off the ball. it was and is a team thing, not just when he gets the ball, thats a crap excuse to defend a favourite when he just isn't doing it.

[Guest icemanblue]

strangely the movement has been there when he's been out, especially movement just to keep possession, to the point that i'm seeing the"nobody moves for him" argument to be little more than an excuse for him, also, showing for the ball is vastly different to good movement.

 

Are you trying to say that we don't have a lack of movement from our players when Ben Arfa has the ball. 

for a long time we had a lack of movement whoever had the ball, it was only used as an excuse for ben arfa though, this season we've had much more movement, however i've noticed ben arfa still getting the benefit when he's had options but held on too it for too long, fwiw ben arfa is as bad if not worse than most for his movement off the ball. it was and is a team thing, not just when he gets the ball, thats a crap excuse to defend a favourite when he just isn't doing it.

 

Absolutely.

[mrmojorisin75]

i think we should all wait and see how the movement is in the next few games HBA plays tbh

 

i've always had a suspicion that pardew instructs some players to hold their ground to cover him when he goes off on his runs for obvious reasons (obvious to pardew)

[Mick]

for a long time we had a lack of movement whoever had the ball, it was only used as an excuse for ben arfa though, this season we've had much more movement, however i've noticed ben arfa still getting the benefit when he's had options but held on too it for too long, fwiw ben arfa is as bad if not worse than most for his movement off the ball. it was and is a team thing, not just when he gets the ball, thats a crap excuse to defend a favourite when he just isn't doing it.

 

It's not a crap excuse when it's true, I was watching him against Hull and nobody moved when he had the ball.  It was as if they were expecting him to do everything on his own.  Our movement has been better recently, he hasn't been in the team to benefit from it though.

[madras]

it's the same excuse whenever he plays poorly "oh it wasn't him, it was the others", you watch him that close, watch how often he gets his head up after he gets the ball, watch how often he lays off a simple ball then turns to get into space or stretch the opposition (a clue- he doesn't). when nhe'son fire he's fantastic, one of the few players worth paying to watch on his own, when he's not though, it seems the team is better off without him.

 

anyone thought, given there is a lot by pardew about ben arfas personality and I think a little by the player himself, that when he's down it may not be best to play him ?

[Parky]

Out of Pardew and Hatem there can only ever be one winner.

[Guest neesy111]

Ahh the good old Parky kiss off death.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Out of Pardew and Hatem there can only ever be one winner.

 

Luckily they're both on the same side.

[mrmojorisin75]

It's not a crap excuse when it's true, I was watching him against Hull and nobody moved when he had the ball.  It was as if they were expecting him to do everything on his own.  Our movement has been better recently, he hasn't been in the team to benefit from it though.

 

thank fuck someone else sees it

 

i also agree with madras that he doesn't get his head up enough but i think on both sides (his and the other players) they've sort of both got into the rut of him having to do it all on his own or something - there could also be the element of pardew's risk analysis, i.e. he might be telling players to stand their ground was HBA has the ball because he's brilliant but more of a risk and turns over possession more often, not sure

 

go back and watch the compilations of him playing in france and look how many times he's on the ball picking lush passes for players making runs in behind the defence, it's been conditioned out of him after 2 years of playing in a real life fussball team...needs conditioning back into them all through proper training

[Eddy Chibas]

It's not a crap excuse when it's true, I was watching him against Hull and nobody moved when he had the ball.  It was as if they were expecting him to do everything on his own.  Our movement has been better recently, he hasn't been in the team to benefit from it though.

 

thank f*** someone else sees it

 

i also agree with madras that he doesn't get his head up enough but i think on both sides (his and the other players) they've sort of both got into the rut of him having to do it all on his own or something - there could also be the element of pardew's risk analysis, i.e. he might be telling players to stand their ground was HBA has the ball because he's brilliant but more of a risk and turns over possession more often, not sure

 

go back and watch the compilations of him playing in france and look how many times he's on the ball picking lush passes for players making runs in behind the defence, it's been conditioned out of him after 2 years of playing in a real life fussball team...needs conditioning back into them all through proper training

 

 

 

Edit: i'm unable to c&p on my mobile device, but that post should be chucked in the 'Ace Posts' thread - that's the measuring stick as to how to describe The Pardoo Effect, and to apply context to the often thrown around joke "refined player X will be in time, or player Y has unfortunately been Pardewed"

[cp40]

for a long time we had a lack of movement whoever had the ball, it was only used as an excuse for ben arfa though, this season we've had much more movement, however i've noticed ben arfa still getting the benefit when he's had options but held on too it for too long, fwiw ben arfa is as bad if not worse than most for his movement off the ball. it was and is a team thing, not just when he gets the ball, thats a crap excuse to defend a favourite when he just isn't doing it.

 

It's not a crap excuse when it's true, I was watching him against Hull and nobody moved when he had the ball.  It was as if they were expecting him to do everything on his own.  Our movement has been better recently, he hasn't been in the team to benefit from it though.

 

 

I wonder what, or who gave them that impression?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The Pardoo Effect

 

[mrmojorisin75]

good contribution ian

[AyeDubbleYoo]

good contribution ian

 

Sometimes it's necessary.

[NG32]

Out of Pardew and Hatem there can only ever be one winner.

 

Luckily they're both on the same side.

 

There can only be one...according to Christopher Lambert.