Flip Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Disagree. Really not sure that agents need to exist. They're just another example of one of these middle-man jobs where somebody is making a lot of money despite not really creating anything of value themselves; e.g. ticket touts or buy-to-let lenders. There is also an obvious and inherent conflict of interest at play in that a large amount of the time they're not getting the best deal for the player but getting the best deal for themselves, prioritising the immediate short term. Hence why you see numerous players making bad moves to a big club's academy or to some footballing backwater that doesn't benefit their career or their earnings in the long run but makes the agent some cash in the short term. I mean, maybe they do push the wages up for players across the board but I'm pretty convinced they're simply performing a role that the player or a family member could quite easily do themself. Players have all the power now regardless of whether they have agents or not; Bosman saw to that. They earn their money. Of course, sometimes their advice doesn't pay off, but most of the time the players are still well rewarded financially. Players aren't like fans, most of them don't have a dog in this fight. They look after themselves and fair play to them. I imagine the average worker doesn't really care about their company. They care about it doing well when they're there, but if they leave? It's just another company, like the millions out there. The players feel the same way, IMO. Agents also handle stuff like contracts and negotiations which most players don't have a clue how to do. They also have contacts in the game that family members of players don't. Look at someone like Mendes who will move players to clubs where he's close to the owners. This is obviously to the benefit of the players because Mendes' influence allows him to get players higher wages. I don't understand the hate for agents. They're the best thing going for players. I don't see agents that act against their client's best interests regularly and without them, more of the profit in football would go to owners. I don't see why the system should be like that that. Anyway, the craziest thing about this deal is that it's a domestic deal. I don't understand why people in England pay so much to watch football on TV and why no other country is willing to pay the same? The difference is becoming an order of magnitude. Why do Dutch people don't want to pay to watch Ajax on TV? Why are they willing to pay so little? We're not even talking about foreign money. We're simply talking domestic, which is crazy. Pip, you're a staunch free market neoliberal, I'm unsurprised you support the role people like agents who are essentially a parasite making money for not really doing, creating or having any discernible talent themselves. Like I said, there's numerous people fulfilling jobs like this now who are making money out of nothing which apparently makes them commendable. You mention Mendes. Is he good? Is he good for footballers? He doesn't seem to have done much for Falcao's career or Hulk's career in recent years. Unless all that really matters is making 300k a week instead of 200k. I'm sure looking at the fees and wages involved for the players he's made himself a lot of dodgy Russian money in the process though. And this guy is supposed to be an example of a top agent. I dread to think about all the low end agents pushing their clients between various clubs to get their slice. As much as I hate to say it and despite agreeing with you regarding the parasite reference, Pips does have a point. Agents are there to give a service to players because they know the market, just like a real estate agent. Doesn't need to exist, but their expertise helps the seller or buyer get the best deal possible. I dislike agents just like you, but I do understand that for most of these uneducated footballers they need to exist or they'd not be getting their right share. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Disagree. Really not sure that agents need to exist. They're just another example of one of these middle-man jobs where somebody is making a lot of money despite not really creating anything of value themselves; e.g. ticket touts or buy-to-let lenders. There is also an obvious and inherent conflict of interest at play in that a large amount of the time they're not getting the best deal for the player but getting the best deal for themselves, prioritising the immediate short term. Hence why you see numerous players making bad moves to a big club's academy or to some footballing backwater that doesn't benefit their career or their earnings in the long run but makes the agent some cash in the short term. I mean, maybe they do push the wages up for players across the board but I'm pretty convinced they're simply performing a role that the player or a family member could quite easily do themself. Players have all the power now regardless of whether they have agents or not; Bosman saw to that. They earn their money. Of course, sometimes their advice doesn't pay off, but most of the time the players are still well rewarded financially. Players aren't like fans, most of them don't have a dog in this fight. They look after themselves and fair play to them. I imagine the average worker doesn't really care about their company. They care about it doing well when they're there, but if they leave? It's just another company, like the millions out there. The players feel the same way, IMO. Agents also handle stuff like contracts and negotiations which most players don't have a clue how to do. They also have contacts in the game that family members of players don't. Look at someone like Mendes who will move players to clubs where he's close to the owners. This is obviously to the benefit of the players because Mendes' influence allows him to get players higher wages. I don't understand the hate for agents. They're the best thing going for players. I don't see agents that act against their client's best interests regularly and without them, more of the profit in football would go to owners. I don't see why the system should be like that that. Anyway, the craziest thing about this deal is that it's a domestic deal. I don't understand why people in England pay so much to watch football on TV and why no other country is willing to pay the same? The difference is becoming an order of magnitude. Why do Dutch people don't want to pay to watch Ajax on TV? Why are they willing to pay so little? We're not even talking about foreign money. We're simply talking domestic, which is crazy. Pip, you're a staunch free market neoliberal, I'm unsurprised you support the role people like agents who are essentially a parasite making money for not really doing, creating or having any discernible talent themselves. Like I said, there's numerous people fulfilling jobs like this now who are making money out of nothing which apparently makes them commendable. You mention Mendes. Is he good? Is he good for footballers? He doesn't seem to have done much for Falcao's career or Hulk's career in recent years. Unless all that really matters is making 300k a week instead of 200k. I'm sure looking at the fees and wages involved for the players he's made himself a lot of dodgy Russian money in the process though. And this guy is supposed to be an example of a top agent. I dread to think about all the low end agents pushing their clients between various clubs to get their slice. As much as I hate to say it and despite agreeing with you regarding the parasite reference, Pips does have a point. Agents are there to give a service to players because they know the market, just like a real estate agent. Doesn't need to exist, but their expertise helps the seller or buyer get the best deal possible. I dislike agents just like you, but I do understand that for most of these uneducated footballers they need to exist or they'd not be getting their right share. I'd argue the players would be better off using the PFA (who do provide that service if needed) or a solicitor than let an agent in but thats just me, the pfa in particular could be argued it would help players further down the pecking order by getting the fee the agent would otherwise get. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Oh absolutely, but there's some problem with those options as they're not going to help players seek new clubs etc. Probably be healthier for footballers and football in general without agents, but they still do fulfill a role which in todays football is needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 INteresting point about why we are prepared to spend so much money on Sky and the like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Carvery Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 It's still ultimately in the hands of the fans. Stop going, cancel sky sports subscriptions, stop tuning in to games and it all changes. The product doesn't exist without the fans. That won't happen! You are honestly wasting your own time trying to encourage that although I do see your point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Carvery Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 It's still ultimately in the hands of the fans. Stop going, cancel sky sports subscriptions, stop tuning in to games and it all changes. The product doesn't exist without the fans. That won't happen! You are honestly wasting your own time trying to encourage that although I do see your point. I'm not really trying to encourage it, just saying really, that ultimately the power still rests with the fans. It'll never happen, but I'm just saying it could. Sky sports 1 tonight Partick thistle v Celtic. Well worth the extra money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Oh absolutely, but there's some problem with those options as they're not going to help players seek new clubs etc. Probably be healthier for footballers and football in general without agents, but they still do fulfill a role which in todays football is needed. Why is it unhealthy for footballers to seek out jobs that pay them more? Do you judge your coworkers when they leave your workplace for another company that pays more? Footballers are somehow supposed to be saints who care about the fans more than they care about themselves. To these guys, it's just another job. It's a ridiculously high paying job, but it's just a job. They will work for the highest and most comfortable payer. Same as everyone else in the economy. And yet people will judge them for doing this. The hypocrisy is unbelievable. I'm sure trophies and all are great, but for the majority of footballers who aren't that good, they won't ever win a trophy anyway. They play to sustain a good lifestyle. They play to earn so that their kids and grandkids have a comfortable life. Or so they can make sure their parents have a comfortable life. It's unbelievable that people judge footballers that want to move to a club that would pay them more. As if they wouldn't do it in a second in their normal jobs. There are many considerations to a job. Pay is one. Comfort is another. Working conditions is another. For footballers, the latter two are pretty much the same everywhere, right? It's just the pay that's difference. Fair play to the players that look out for themselves because if they didn't, the owners sure as hell wouldn't. You think Ashley would pay a single pound more than he actually has to? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 What's wrong with Falcao? He's basically making a ton of money and not doing much. His knee is fucked and he can't run as fast anymore. The agent did what was in the client's best interests. If he's not going to recover fully then he may as well earn as much as possible. And if he is going to recover, he'd do it at a club with the facilities like Man Utd. Basically the option was to earn a lot of money while recovering or to not earn a lot of money. The scummy agents are the ones that don't look after their client's best interests, the one that doesn't develop the kids, offer them guidance and make sure they know that they have to work hard. The agents who move their players around to earn more money are the best agents around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Oh absolutely, but there's some problem with those options as they're not going to help players seek new clubs etc. Probably be healthier for footballers and football in general without agents, but they still do fulfill a role which in todays football is needed. Why is it unhealthy for footballers to seek out jobs that pay them more? Do you judge your coworkers when they leave your workplace for another company that pays more? Footballers are somehow supposed to be saints who care about the fans more than they care about themselves. To these guys, it's just another job. It's a ridiculously high paying job, but it's just a job. They will work for the highest and most comfortable payer. Same as everyone else in the economy. And yet people will judge them for doing this. The hypocrisy is unbelievable. I'm sure trophies and all are great, but for the majority of footballers who aren't that good, they won't ever win a trophy anyway. They play to sustain a good lifestyle. They play to earn so that their kids and grandkids have a comfortable life. Or so they can make sure their parents have a comfortable life. It's unbelievable that people judge footballers that want to move to a club that would pay them more. As if they wouldn't do it in a second in their normal jobs. There are many considerations to a job. Pay is one. Comfort is another. Working conditions is another. For footballers, the latter two are pretty much the same everywhere, right? It's just the pay that's difference. Fair play to the players that look out for themselves because if they didn't, the owners sure as hell wouldn't. You think Ashley would pay a single pound more than he actually has to? Wholeheartedly agree with this. I know us as a fans have a different relationship with a club, but as a worker, I'll seek a higher-paying job without thinking it much. Why footballers can't do the same? And their careers are much, much shorter than a regular worker's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 What's wrong with Falcao? He's basically making a ton of money and not doing much. His knee is fucked and he can't run as fast anymore. The agent did what was in the client's best interests. If he's not going to recover fully then he may as well earn as much as possible. And if he is going to recover, he'd do it at a club with the facilities like Man Utd. Basically the option was to earn a lot of money while recovering or to not earn a lot of money. The scummy agents are the ones that don't look after their client's best interests, the one that doesn't develop the kids, offer them guidance and make sure they know that they have to work hard. The agents who move their players around to earn more money are the best agents around. His career has been downhill since he made that ridiculous move to Monaco when he was at the peak of his career, which was his agent's doing. He's going to be remembered for nothing in the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Oh absolutely, but there's some problem with those options as they're not going to help players seek new clubs etc. Probably be healthier for footballers and football in general without agents, but they still do fulfill a role which in todays football is needed. Why is it unhealthy for footballers to seek out jobs that pay them more? Do you judge your coworkers when they leave your workplace for another company that pays more? Footballers are somehow supposed to be saints who care about the fans more than they care about themselves. To these guys, it's just another job. It's a ridiculously high paying job, but it's just a job. They will work for the highest and most comfortable payer. Same as everyone else in the economy. And yet people will judge them for doing this. The hypocrisy is unbelievable. I'm sure trophies and all are great, but for the majority of footballers who aren't that good, they won't ever win a trophy anyway. They play to sustain a good lifestyle. They play to earn so that their kids and grandkids have a comfortable life. Or so they can make sure their parents have a comfortable life. It's unbelievable that people judge footballers that want to move to a club that would pay them more. As if they wouldn't do it in a second in their normal jobs. There are many considerations to a job. Pay is one. Comfort is another. Working conditions is another. For footballers, the latter two are pretty much the same everywhere, right? It's just the pay that's difference. Fair play to the players that look out for themselves because if they didn't, the owners sure as hell wouldn't. You think Ashley would pay a single pound more than he actually has to? Oh Pip, I was agreeing with you. What I meant is that they could do the job of agents if they were educated enough and use solicitors to get contracts done and save themselves money and also not have deals falling through because of agent fees. I understand the need of their service because they maximize the players earnings in many ways just like a real estate agent will try and get sellers most money possible. Still doesn't make me think it's healthy for footballers not to get a move done down to agent fees or an agents opinion. Neymar would've gone to Real Madrid had it not been for his own will to play along Messi. His agent was trying to force him to Real Madrid because he has a better relationship with them having represented plenty of players who played there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Oh absolutely, but there's some problem with those options as they're not going to help players seek new clubs etc. Probably be healthier for footballers and football in general without agents, but they still do fulfill a role which in todays football is needed. Why is it unhealthy for footballers to seek out jobs that pay them more? Do you judge your coworkers when they leave your workplace for another company that pays more? Footballers are somehow supposed to be saints who care about the fans more than they care about themselves. To these guys, it's just another job. It's a ridiculously high paying job, but it's just a job. They will work for the highest and most comfortable payer. Same as everyone else in the economy. And yet people will judge them for doing this. The hypocrisy is unbelievable. I'm sure trophies and all are great, but for the majority of footballers who aren't that good, they won't ever win a trophy anyway. They play to sustain a good lifestyle. They play to earn so that their kids and grandkids have a comfortable life. Or so they can make sure their parents have a comfortable life. It's unbelievable that people judge footballers that want to move to a club that would pay them more. As if they wouldn't do it in a second in their normal jobs. There are many considerations to a job. Pay is one. Comfort is another. Working conditions is another. For footballers, the latter two are pretty much the same everywhere, right? It's just the pay that's difference. Fair play to the players that look out for themselves because if they didn't, the owners sure as hell wouldn't. You think Ashley would pay a single pound more than he actually has to? Wholeheartedly agree with this. I know us as a fans have a different relationship with a club, but as a worker, I'll seek a higher-paying job without thinking it much. Why footballers can't do the same? And their careers are much, much shorter than a regular worker's. Not everyone just chases money Especially if it means the difference between 140k a week and 150k a week. It's a completely different thing to me chasing 25k instead of 22k a year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Oh absolutely, but there's some problem with those options as they're not going to help players seek new clubs etc. Probably be healthier for footballers and football in general without agents, but they still do fulfill a role which in todays football is needed. Why is it unhealthy for footballers to seek out jobs that pay them more? Do you judge your coworkers when they leave your workplace for another company that pays more? Footballers are somehow supposed to be saints who care about the fans more than they care about themselves. To these guys, it's just another job. It's a ridiculously high paying job, but it's just a job. They will work for the highest and most comfortable payer. Same as everyone else in the economy. And yet people will judge them for doing this. The hypocrisy is unbelievable. I'm sure trophies and all are great, but for the majority of footballers who aren't that good, they won't ever win a trophy anyway. They play to sustain a good lifestyle. They play to earn so that their kids and grandkids have a comfortable life. Or so they can make sure their parents have a comfortable life. It's unbelievable that people judge footballers that want to move to a club that would pay them more. As if they wouldn't do it in a second in their normal jobs. There are many considerations to a job. Pay is one. Comfort is another. Working conditions is another. For footballers, the latter two are pretty much the same everywhere, right? It's just the pay that's difference. Fair play to the players that look out for themselves because if they didn't, the owners sure as hell wouldn't. You think Ashley would pay a single pound more than he actually has to? Wholeheartedly agree with this. I know us as a fans have a different relationship with a club, but as a worker, I'll seek a higher-paying job without thinking it much. Why footballers can't do the same? And their careers are much, much shorter than a regular worker's. Not everyone just chases money Especially if it means the difference between 140k a week and 150k a week. It's a completely different thing to me chasing 25k instead of 22k a year. Over a 5 year contract that 10k a week adds up to a cool £2.5m. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Same folk will be buzzing off the clubs soon to be announced mega profit. Money > sporting achievement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Yeah, I'd like to play in the Champions League, challenge for the league title, get in my countries World Cup squad and all that. But I'd prefer to get racially abused in Russia for an extra 10k a week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 That's a little disingenuous. I don't think any player in recent times has turned down a real chance at a big club challenging for honours for just an extra £10k a week. If you're talking Russia (possibly China too) you're likely looking at an extra £50k - £100k a week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 still cunts tho Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 still c***s tho You're the perfect human being man. Good for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Just because there's like 4 Brazilians ever who haven't done that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 The AFCON Best XI features 2 goalkeepers and 12 players #africa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 CAF Team of the Tournament Goalkeeper: Sylvain Gbohouo (Côte d’Ivoire) – Robert Kidiaba (RD Congo) Defenders: Serge Aurier (Côte d’Ivoire), Harrison Afful (Ghana), Abib Kolo Toure (Côte d’Ivoire) Midfielders: Andre Ayew (Ghana), Yaya Toure (Côte d’Ivoire), Max Alain Gradel (Côte d’Ivoire), Yannick Bolasie (DR Congo), Gervinho (Côte d’Ivoire) Forwards: Christian Atsu (Ghana), Wilfried Bony (Côte d’Ivoire) Imagine that team actually playing 7 wide players Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Although I've also seen this reported as the CAF best XI... the one above was from their actual website though Goalkeeper: Aymen Mathlouthi (Tunisia) Defenders: Aissa Mandi (Algeria), Kolo Toure (Ivory Coast) Jonathan Mensah (Ghana) and Henri Bedimo (Cameroon) Midfielders: Geoffrey Serey Die (Ivory Coast), Yaya Touré (Ivory Coast) and Sibusiso Vilakazi (South Africa) Forwards: Gervinho (Ivory Coast), Andre Ayew (Ghana) and Wilfried Bony (Ivory Coast) At least it's actually a team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 @BroadcastMoose: The FA also say they won't punish Crystal Palace for the incident where a fan threw an object at Newcastle's Fabricio Coloccini Was it a set of straightners? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaus Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Does that mean the club, or even the police could still punish the supporter who threw it? Assuming he gets identified. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 @BroadcastMoose: The FA also say they won't punish Crystal Palace for the incident where a fan threw an object at Newcastle's Fabricio Coloccini Was it a set of straightners? It was another blokes wife I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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