The unpopular football opinion thread

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

9 minutes ago, TotalWar said:

Toshack was a centre forward, Hughes was a centre back.

Poor turn of phrase, I meant how good they were in the same Liverpool side. Wasn’t suggesting they were a front pairing. 🤦

[Optimistic Nut]

11 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

Watching football footage from the 70s and 80s is a bit of a joke tbh. The standard is so poor by modern standards. If you're doing a combined team over decades it's very difficult because a modern PL team would obliterate a side from that era.

 

You basically have to judge players entirely on the era they played in - and presume they'd have been better with modern training, fitness, tactics and rule changes.

 

However there is also the fact that football is far more global now, and that you're competing with a much bigger pool of players - the best of which are funneled into Europe and England. 

Aye, when I watched the 66 World Cup Final a few years ago, the standard was nowhere near what it is today physically & technically. Like you say, give those players these dieticians, physios, pitches, facilities, way of life due to wealth etc, I’m sure it would have been better. Similarly give these players those conditions and I it’d have been the reverse.

[Tsunami]

12 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

Watching football footage from the 70s and 80s is a bit of a joke tbh. The standard is so poor by modern standards. If you're doing a combined team over decades it's very difficult because a modern PL team would obliterate a side from that era.

 

You basically have to judge players entirely on the era they played in - and presume they'd have been better with modern training, fitness, tactics and rule changes.

 

However there is also the fact that football is far more global now, and that you're competing with a much bigger pool of players - the best of which are funneled into Europe and England. 

That’s complete bollocks tbh. Modern training/ conditioning is making players who would be otherwise be average into good/ functioning players. Some of the skill/ passing/ athleticism from the 70s/ 80s is right up there. No doubt there’s fewer poor/ passed it players now but the top players would always make it. 

[Kid Icarus]

It's undeniable imo.

 

Watch the 66 and 70 World Cup finals and the time, space and pace is like it's on a planet with thicker air. Even matches from the 90s and early 00s are nothing like what we see now 

[Hanshithispantz]

4 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

That’s complete bollocks tbh. Modern training/ conditioning is making players who would be otherwise be average into good/ functioning players. Some of the skill/ passing/ athleticism from the 70s/ 80s is right up there. No doubt there’s fewer poor/ passed it players now but the top players would always make it. 

This is Sewelly's point though isn't it?

[Optimistic Nut]

Remember Fantasy Football had a segment with them singing ‘Old football was shite, but not as shite as Andy Cole’ before showing some awful clip.

[Tsunami]

Again that’s with the advantage of diet, data, conditioning, pitches even things like average height, standard of living. Have to say I struggle with the 60’s and some of the early mid 70’s as it’s a different game but, if you look just at the  top players they’d be top players now. 

[Optimistic Nut]

 

[triggs]

Its just a completely different game, I don't think you can compare. There's probably really top players back then that wouldn't have the physical attributes to thrive now and likewise top players now that wouldn't be suited to the slower pace

[The Butcher]

Shola was better than Pele. 

[ponsaelius]

33 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

This is Sewelly's point though isn't it?

 

Yes my point is you can't directly compare - it's not fair on those from previous eras. You have to judge the players on how successful they were at the time and the way the game was at the time.

 

The one variable you can't account for however is the globalised nature of football, the massively widened talent pool, and the way in which they're all centred in a handful of big leagues now. There is no doubt that top European football leagues are far more competitive now - particularly the PL.

[Ken Boon]

1 hour ago, ponsaelius said:

Watching football footage from the 70s and 80s is a bit of a joke tbh. The standard is so poor by modern standards.

 

Aye, George Best, Pele, Maradona, Eusebio, Cruyff etc were shite... 🤪They never mastered the art of passing backwards and sideways like they do today although Liverpool in the 70's and 80's gave it a good go.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by Ken Boon

[Gaztoon]

Give George best today's training, nutrition and pitches... he would piss today's game. 

[Happinesstan]

Just now, Gaztoon said:

Give George best today's training, nutrition and pitches... he would still be pissed today's game. 

 

[Gaztoon]

Just now, Happinesstan said:

 

 

🤣

[ponsaelius]

 

9 minutes ago, Ken Boon said:

 

Aye, George Best, Pele, Maradona, Eusebio, Cruyff etc were shite... 🤪They never mastered the art of passing backwards and sideways like they do today although Liverpool in the 70's and 80's gave it a good go.

 

Sorry but it's a particularly hard these days for older gents with rose tinted specs to sell the 'it's not like it used to be' shtick when you can find endless footage and full matches of top level football from any decade in seconds on YouTube - and then see for yourself in minutes just how much lower the standard was. 

[Choppy Chop Chop]

14 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

 

 

Sorry but it's a particularly hard these days for older gents with rose tinted specs to sell the 'it's not like it used to be' shtick when you can find endless footage and full matches of top level football from any decade in seconds on YouTube - and then see for yourself in minutes just how much lower the standard was. 

You're probably right, but god it was 100 times more entertaining 

[Hanshithispantz]

38 minutes ago, Ken Boon said:

 

Aye, George Best, Pele, Maradona, Eusebio, Cruyff etc were shite... 🤪They never mastered the art of passing backwards and sideways like they do today although Liverpool in the 70's and 80's gave it a good go.

 

 

 

The players they played alongside were shite in comparison to modern footballers playing in a much faster game, so it's hard to judge them in comparison to modern counterparts.

 

Gayle was a god in the Championship and one of the worst strikers we've ever had in the Prem.

[Wolfcastle]

2 hours ago, ponsaelius said:

Watching football footage from the 70s and 80s is a bit of a joke tbh. The standard is so poor by modern standards. If you're doing a combined team over decades it's very difficult because a modern PL team would obliterate a side from that era.

 

You basically have to judge players entirely on the era they played in - and presume they'd have been better with modern training, fitness, tactics and rule changes.

 

However there is also the fact that football is far more global now, and that you're competing with a much bigger pool of players - the best of which are funneled into Europe and England. 

I think football has gone down hill since the 90s very early 2000s. Fitness and speed maybe but actual ability is way lower. The best players then are way better than the best players now. It was rare that a winger couldn't cross then, now we rave about it.

International football I find glaring at this. The current French world champions are not a patch in the 1998 team, nor are the Brazil or Argentina sides. I bet through the 80s 90s and early 2000s Italy never had a team as bad as this - and they're European champions now.

The Portugal European champions team was the worst team they'd sent to a tournament for a good while

 

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by Wolfcastle

[Ken Boon]

27 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

 

 

Sorry but it's a particularly hard these days for older gents with rose tinted specs to sell the 'it's not like it used to be' shtick when you can find endless footage and full matches of top level football from any decade in seconds on YouTube - and then see for yourself in minutes just how much lower the standard was. 

 

 I apologise, I never realised that your opinion was the only correct one, I thought the Brazil team of 1970 were decent, I never realised my rose tinted glasses made them look better than they actually were. 😜 😁 (it's right what they say about Football being a game of opinions innit!)

[Kid Icarus]

It's all relative to the time so I do believe that the obviously outstanding, naturally gifted players from the past would be just as good now in the right conditions (e.g Best wouldn't be able to get away with the same lifestyle) - but it's undeniable that the quality has improved massively overall and that the pool of players to pick from is bigger than it was in the past. 

[Ken Boon]

23 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

It's all relative to the time so I do believe that the obviously outstanding, naturally gifted players from the past would be just as good now in the right conditions (e.g Best wouldn't be able to get away with the same lifestyle) - but it's undeniable that the quality has improved massively overall and that the pool of players to pick from is bigger than it was in the past. 

 

Aye, definitely, there are more higher quality standard of players about these days than there used to be, they are also definitely better athletes than they used to be albeit they are a bunch of pampered c*nts these days. They thought of playing on a muddy pitch would put the shits up most of 'em. 😂  Still plenty of dross about these days though, just like there always was in 19 o'blonk.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by Ken Boon

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

1 hour ago, ponsaelius said:

 

 

Sorry but it's a particularly hard these days for older gents with rose tinted specs to sell the 'it's not like it used to be' shtick when you can find endless footage and full matches of top level football from any decade in seconds on YouTube - and then see for yourself in minutes just how much lower the standard was. 

Aye but there’s the flip side of this, watch even 90's football and the pitches were cut up like Sunday league grounds, defenders could get away with outright assault and there were still players as skilled and cultured as today

[kingxlnc]

I do understand this to an extent. I watched a documentary on Brian Clough's Forest, and they were very well organised and hard to break down, with some flashes of quality but honestly, even in terms of his approach to management, it's very hands off, Steve Bruce-esque you could even say. Obviously that is a huge insult to the great man, but it was purely man management, the culture was very laissez faire, they'd do a bit of training, a bit of the pub, I recall one of the players smoked like a chimney. And yet they won the European cup twice and a whole lot of other trophies too. Money does this to an extent, you can afford everything to be bigger, better and therefore you start micro-managing every last ounce of performance. Wenger revolutionised the nutrition side, I believe Keegan was one of the first to focus on the sports psychology side. So naturally as money has taken over, and with the internet, everyone is more informed therefore you can get away with a lot less. Bruce is case in point - his approach largely worked for him ten years ago, whereas now he's getting called out for it. 

[macphisto]

@Kid Icarus @Ken Boon What are you actually referring to when you say a higher standard these days? 100% agree about the improvement in players fitness levels/lifestyles and tactical nous/tactical discipline. I'd also say the role of defenders has changed beyond recognition in how they defend, attack and now have to be far more comfortable on the ball. Likewise, the role of the goalkeeper has also changed dramatically, personified by the video of 80s goalkeepers just whacking the ball down the pitch.

 

I would say though that the improvements above have been offset by the fall in strikers and midfielders. The league winners in Italy, Germany, Spain and England all had main strikers in their mid-30s or in Man City's case often preferred not to play with a striker. I know there has been advances in sports science but for not one of the main league winners to have one main striker in their mid-20s is unusual and doesn't say much about the younger generation of strikers.

 

Midfielders, I'll just use England as one example. Compare England's midfield now to the "golden generation". I've got no time for the "golden generation" but I do have to admit that they're light years ahead of the current midfield.  

 

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by macphisto