Guest Haris Vuckic Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I still think he has the wrong set of characteristics for tough times, but credit where it's due, I didn't think he could turn us back into a good team again and he has. aye this, when things stop going his way again he'll crumble into tiny little pieces, and let's face it at some point things stop going everyone's way There's been a few times he's been seemingly on the brink (Reading at home last season, the 0-3/0-6s, after the Sunderland game a couple of months ago), but he's managed to either put a mini run together (like we did after the new signings went into the team last February), but this time seems more sustained. That seems to suggest he doesn't crumble when things are going badly. nah, howay man, i'm clearly referring to a sustained period of injuries and/or suspensions...he's had results go against him this season and we've bounced back like we did when finishing 5th but in that season and this he had the majority of the players he'd want on the pitch available to him most of the time imho i've not seen anything like last season from an NUFC manager personally, he was gone mentally - had no answers whatsoever for what to do in the face of (at times) extreme difficulty, he was just a passenger or another supporter, powerless to stop what was happening until 5 players turned up and saved the season for him Desperate stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I still think he has the wrong set of characteristics for tough times, but credit where it's due, I didn't think he could turn us back into a good team again and he has. aye this, when things stop going his way again he'll crumble into tiny little pieces, and let's face it at some point things stop going everyone's way There's been a few times he's been seemingly on the brink (Reading at home last season, the 0-3/0-6s, after the Sunderland game a couple of months ago), but he's managed to either put a mini run together (like we did after the new signings went into the team last February), but this time seems more sustained. That seems to suggest he doesn't crumble when things are going badly. nah, howay man, i'm clearly referring to a sustained period of injuries and/or suspensions...he's had results go against him this season and we've bounced back like we did when finishing 5th but in that season and this he had the majority of the players he'd want on the pitch available to him most of the time imho i've not seen anything like last season from an NUFC manager personally, he was gone mentally - had no answers whatsoever for what to do in the face of (at times) extreme difficulty, he was just a passenger or another supporter, powerless to stop what was happening until 5 players turned up and saved the season for him Desperate stuff. what the fuck are you on about? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 At least 3 of those should have arrived 5 months earlier though which isn't Pardew's fault. His overall record since Villa which is when they came into the team properly is : P 32 W 15, D 5, L 12 Pts 50 (averages out to just over 59pts over a season). That suggests to me if we'd given him the squad he got in January, last summer when Ashley/Llambias should have done this, we'd have been more than comfortable. That run of form between drawing at Anfield and beating Villa with the new signings was wretched. That's not to defend him because he was woeful for the most part last season and was very lucky to keep his job imo. He should have still done better with what he had. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Desperate stuff. He's right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Doing well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 At least 3 of those should have arrived 5 months earlier though which isn't Pardew's fault. His overall record since Villa which is when they came into the team properly is : P 32 W 15, D 5, L 12 Pts 50 (averages out to just over 59pts over a season). That suggests to me if we'd given him the squad he got in January, last summer when Ashley/Llambias should have done this, we'd have been more than comfortable. how does any of that change what i've said? i agree he's fine when he's got the minimum he feels he needs to work with, when he doesn't have that he'll struggle (last season) - this is all i'm saying really...if we get crippled over xmas with 7 injuries and suspensions he'll not be able to muster up some amazing performances from the meager tools at his disposal, that's just not his thing this season he's had plenty of options and has done well there's no controversy here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 At least 3 of those should have arrived 5 months earlier though which isn't Pardew's fault. His overall record since Villa which is when they came into the team properly is : P 32 W 15, D 5, L 12 Pts 50 (averages out to just over 59pts over a season). That suggests to me if we'd given him the squad he got in January, last summer when Ashley/Llambias should have done this, we'd have been more than comfortable. That run of form between drawing at Anfield and beating Villa with the new signings was wretched. That's not to defend him because he was woeful for the most part last season and was very lucky to keep his job imo. He should have still done better with what he had. Last season he said we were challenging for the CL, he either believed that or he shouldn't have said it because he ended up looking like a tool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Doing well. hes right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 i note this was conveniently cut from my post as well like credit to the guy for this season to date as you say, but it's built on almost ideal circumstances again with injuries/suspensions... (i realise this will be seen as some that i'm unnecessarily being negative about the guy but that's not it, it's just the truth as i see - he's doing great at the moment ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Could the ''ideal set of circumstances'' be considered somewhat equilibrious? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Could the ''ideal set of circumstances'' be considered somewhat equilibrious? What? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Could the ''ideal set of circumstances'' be considered somewhat equilibrious? What? For your benefit injuries and suspensions don't happen to anybody but us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Let's face it, if Pardew had been replaced in the summer and a new manager had had exactly the same season we've had so far, everyone would have been singing his praises for weeks already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Could the ''ideal set of circumstances'' be considered somewhat equilibrious? What? For your benefit injuries and suspensions don't happen to anybody but us. Assuming that's what he meant, and I don't think it is, what does it have to do with pardew not being able to perform when he's hit by them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 At least 3 of those should have arrived 5 months earlier though which isn't Pardew's fault. His overall record since Villa which is when they came into the team properly is : P 32 W 15, D 5, L 12 Pts 50 (averages out to just over 59pts over a season). That suggests to me if we'd given him the squad he got in January, last summer when Ashley/Llambias should have done this, we'd have been more than comfortable. how does any of that change what i've said? i agree he's fine when he's got the minimum he feels he needs to work with, when he doesn't have that he'll struggle (last season) - this is all i'm saying really...if we get crippled over xmas with 7 injuries and suspensions he'll not be able to muster up some amazing performances from the meager tools at his disposal, that's just not his thing this season he's had plenty of options and has done well there's no controversy here The main thing he's got right is that he's allowing us to play the sort of football that suits the type of players we are recruiting. It's took a while, but we look a million times better for it. Whether he'll be able to build on it and hold firm when we get a few setbacks is the key. I'm still not convinced he'll be able to adjust to other managers changes during games but at least the players look like they are enjoying the chance to show off their passing skills. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 At least 3 of those should have arrived 5 months earlier though which isn't Pardew's fault. His overall record since Villa which is when they came into the team properly is : P 32 W 15, D 5, L 12 Pts 50 (averages out to just over 59pts over a season). That suggests to me if we'd given him the squad he got in January, last summer when Ashley/Llambias should have done this, we'd have been more than comfortable. how does any of that change what i've said? i agree he's fine when he's got the minimum he feels he needs to work with, when he doesn't have that he'll struggle (last season) - this is all i'm saying really...if we get crippled over xmas with 7 injuries and suspensions he'll not be able to muster up some amazing performances from the meager tools at his disposal, that's just not his thing this season he's had plenty of options and has done well there's no controversy here The main thing he's got right is that he's allowing us to play the sort of football that suits the type of players we are recruiting. It's took a while, but we look a million times better for it. Whether he'll be able to build on it and hold firm when we get a few setbacks is the key. I'm still not convinced he'll be able to adjust to other managers changes during games but at least the players look like they are enjoying the chance to show off their passing skills. Yep. He needs to stick with it though, he abandoned it at home to Southampton which just didn't make sense. So far he's seemed reluctant to let us play our football in the games he's really scared to lose, it's just counter productive and the sign of a scared manager (which is ludicrous considering he wasn't sacked last season, his job is one of the safest around). He's been mentioning the style of play in interviews a lot, so hopefully the penny has dropped for good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Let's face it, if Pardew had been replaced in the summer and a new manager had had exactly the same season we've had so far, everyone would have been singing his praises for weeks already. You're probably right but a new manager would have come in and would have had to learn the strengths and weaknesses of the players before finding a way to control a game. Pardew knew what he had and it still took him 15 games to do that and he abandoned it for game 16 only to bring it back, thankfully, for game 17. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Agree with TRon and Venkman, be a massive challenge for him to try to stick to the style and gameplan when he's stripped of a number of key players. To date he's always reverted to shitball when this has happened. Which is more or less what I started saying in the first place, desperate apparently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Assuming that's what he meant, and I don't think it is, what does it have to do with pardew not being able to perform when he's hit by them? Nothing, it looks like an attempt to change history. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Let's face it, if Pardew had been replaced in the summer and a new manager had had exactly the same season we've had so far, everyone would have been singing his praises for weeks already. You're probably right but a new manager would have come in and would have had to learn the strengths and weaknesses of the players before finding a way to control a game. Pardew knew what he had and it still took him 15 games to do that and he abandoned it for game 16 only to bring it back, thankfully, for game 17. But that's not assessing the strengths and weaknesses of the players. It's not as simple as saying, 'we should play this style all the time', because that doesn't necessarily suit our personnel when taking into account the opposition and their style, strengths and weaknesses. We've shown we can play possession football to frustrate teams away from home but we've not shown that it's something we can do when we need play through teams that look to shut space down, especially when they come to our place. I don't think we've got enough specialists in tight areas to really make it our proper philosophy. We've seen lots of teams come here over the last few years and look to give us the ball, frustrate and catch us on the break and we've often looked a bit clueless in terms of breaking those barriers down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Pardew is just hyper cautious, he won't set us up well if he's frightened of losing, and when we were in relegation trouble he was too frightened to get us to attack properly. However now relegation fears are largely gone (it'd be pretty crazy for us to go down with 30 points now) he really shouldn't be scared of losing too much. There was no expectation of european footy at start of season and now we might as well just go for it, our huge late season run 2 seasons ago started when we hit 40 points, and also because we were playing like we were having fun we also had a habit of some awful loses which will happen again. If we aren't so scared and keep up attacking and playing proper footy we will finish with a very good points total, and hopefully (lol probably not) Pardew will begin to have faith that that is how we should always play, and as long as we do that we won't go down again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 But that's not assessing the strengths and weaknesses of the players. It's not as simple as saying, 'we should play this style all the time', because that doesn't necessarily suit our personnel when taking into account the opposition and their style, strengths and weaknesses. We've shown we can play possession football to frustrate teams away from home but we've not shown that it's something we can do when we need play through teams that look to shut space down, especially when they come to our place. I don't think we've got enough specialists in tight areas to really make it our proper philosophy. We've seen lots of teams come here over the last few years and look to give us the ball, frustrate and catch us on the break and we've often looked a bit clueless in terms of breaking those barriers down. We spend so much time worrying about the opposition that we don't have a style of play that we can call our own. The main reason we've often looked clueless is because we don't have a well known way of playing which the players know well enough and that's part of why we had a season like last. We tried to work on the weaknesses of the opposition instead of our own strengths. Our players are suited to playing the type of game we played against Man U and Palace and that's why it worked for us. The better teams have a style of play that they know and that suits the players they have, we need the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 At least 3 of those should have arrived 5 months earlier though which isn't Pardew's fault. His overall record since Villa which is when they came into the team properly is : P 32 W 15, D 5, L 12 Pts 50 (averages out to just over 59pts over a season). That suggests to me if we'd given him the squad he got in January, last summer when Ashley/Llambias should have done this, we'd have been more than comfortable. That run of form between drawing at Anfield and beating Villa with the new signings was wretched. That's not to defend him because he was woeful for the most part last season and was very lucky to keep his job imo. He should have still done better with what he had. Last season he said we were challenging for the CL, he either believed that or he shouldn't have said it because he ended up looking like a tool. He can't win though can he? Mentions champions league and he is a tool, plays it down a bit and he is licking Ashley's arse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 He can't win though can he? Mentions champions league and he is a tool, plays it down a bit and he is licking Ashley's arse. He can't win because he doesn't know when or how to keep his mouth shut. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 He can't win though can he? Mentions champions league and he is a tool, plays it down a bit and he is licking Ashley's arse. He can't win because he doesn't know when or how to keep his mouth shut. Mick won't give an inch will he Sort of don't blame Mick but is being a tad harsh there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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