Mick Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Ashley wasn't gifted a sacking without compensation. If he sacked Pardew for what happened on Saturday the club would end up in a tribunal and losing mainly because they hadn't followed the correct procedure. Employment law is a bitch if you want to sack someone and not pay up. When I said "not necessarily" I was raising the possibility that Ashley isn't totally committed to Pardew. It is a possible explanation for Kinnear's appointment. Who said anything about them not following procedure? They couldn't have sacked him last night but they've rushed it through as a face saving exercise and the fine is as transparent as mud. I would expect every contract to allow for a sacking for Gross Misconduct, sticking a head on anybody will fall into that category. All the club would have had to do was issue him with a letter inviting him to a disciplinary hearing and make it clear that the offence was being considered as Gross Misconduct. They would have had to tell him what he was being interviewed about and state what evidence they had and give him enough time to put his defence together and allow him to be accompanied by a witness. A fact finding investigation wouldn't be necessary as the evidence was broadcast across the globe although the club could have held an unnecessary investigation first. A fact finding investigation isn't necessary when the evidence is plastered all over your TV. I know exactly was has to be done as I've had to do it plenty of times and I'm yet to have anybody win a case against me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I just think he doesn't want to sack Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Storm in a tea cup, even if he is a tit of epic proportions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I'm surprised to learn that Ian thinks there has been an overreaction to the Pardew headbutt incident. Thankfully he posted his opinion - otherwise I might never have known. Like everyone else's opinion is wildly unpredictable. FWIW my opinion on this is nothing to do with the fact it's Pardew. I've said the same thing in the past about these childish overreactions. What childish overreactions are you talking about here? Everyone going mental about something that, in my opinion, was handbags. Just saying at this point, it's clear it's a waste of time making this argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Who's going mental like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Some proper hyperbollocks in here like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Just off to change me bedsheets btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I'm the sort of football fan that gets annoyed if the manager doesn't wear a shirt and tie. You just don't try to fucking head-butt people when you're the boss. I really, really can't see past that. I thought it was pretty fucking appalling behaviour; the contact itself is besides the point (though it would've naturally been worse had he really connected, which could've happened). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest H09 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I've no doubt that in his head he really was Mourinho Stuck the nut on Meyler as a mind game, doesn't want pressure on the lads now we are back in the hunt for Europe, everyone talking about him instead. Genius from Alan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I'm surprised to learn that Ian thinks there has been an overreaction to the Pardew headbutt incident. Thankfully he posted his opinion - otherwise I might never have known. Like everyone else's opinion is wildly unpredictable. FWIW my opinion on this is nothing to do with the fact it's Pardew. I've said the same thing in the past about these childish overreactions. What childish overreactions are you talking about here? Everyone going mental about something that, in my opinion, was handbags. Just saying at this point, it's clear it's a waste of time making this argument. Aye, because you're doing your usual trick of coming into a thread and preach about how everyone is overreacting etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I'm the sort of football fan that gets annoyed if the manager doesn't wear a shirt and tie. You just don't try to fucking head-butt people when you're the boss. I really, really can't see past that. I thought it was pretty fucking appalling behaviour; the contact itself is besides the point (though it would've naturally been worse had he really connected, which could've happened). Football manager should act the most professional at the club since he's the most important person at the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 The fact this cunt has given us some dreadful results in games that should be about passion and pride, some dreadful results in cup games, Lied and bullshitted his way through three years. Played some of the worst football i've ever seen us play. Sticks up for a bloke who doesn't care about us fans one iota, and treats us with so much disrespect that as a club we're just a flag for his jumble sale shops. A cunt who has shoved a lino, nearly nutted a player. Yeah and people on heres overeactions are sooooooooo wrong like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I've no doubt that in his head he really was Mourinho Stuck the nut on Meyler as a mind game, doesn't want pressure on the lads now we are back in the hunt for Europe, everyone talking about him instead. Genius from Alan. I was thinking more of the Mourinho who poked Tito Vilanova in the eye, falsely accused Rijkaard and a referee of cheating resulting in the ref's retirement amid death threats, flouted a touchline ban by having himself smuggled into the dressing room in a laundry bin, kicked the ball away to waste time at a Lazio throw in the UEFA Cup, who has racked up loads of touchline bans and fines and persistently breaks the rules if it'll get his team a small advantage. He probably thought he was doing that (and to be fair he was. Not that it should affect his punishment, it took ages to take the throw and Meyler got booked). Classless, embarrassing but handbags. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Ashley wasn't gifted a sacking without compensation. If he sacked Pardew for what happened on Saturday the club would end up in a tribunal and losing mainly because they hadn't followed the correct procedure. Employment law is a bitch if you want to sack someone and not pay up. When I said "not necessarily" I was raising the possibility that Ashley isn't totally committed to Pardew. It is a possible explanation for Kinnear's appointment. Who said anything about them not following procedure? They couldn't have sacked him last night but they've rushed it through as a face saving exercise and the fine is as transparent as mud. I would expect every contract to allow for a sacking for Gross Misconduct, sticking a head on anybody will fall into that category. All the club would have had to do was issue him with a letter inviting him to a disciplinary hearing and make it clear that the offence was being considered as Gross Misconduct. They would have had to tell him what he was being interviewed about and state what evidence they had and give him enough time to put his defence together and allow him to be accompanied by a witness. A fact finding investigation wouldn't be necessary as the evidence was broadcast across the globe although the club could have held an unnecessary investigation first. A fact finding investigation isn't necessary when the evidence is plastered all over your TV. I know exactly was has to be done as I've had to do it plenty of times and I'm yet to have anybody win a case against me. Ok so the club does as you say. If (as we are led to believe) Pardew has a contract which still has several years left to run there would be millions of pounds at stake and Pardew would appoint a top legal team. The club says it was gross misconduct, the legal team will say it wasn't. They would look at the footage and say Pardew had the opportunity to cause physical harm to the Hull player if he had wanted to, but he didn't. They would say it was just posturing. They would probably question the definition of gross misconduct in a sport where the boundaries are, to say the least, unclear and not defined. They would site other examples of aggression within the game that have not resulted in sackings for gross misconduct - both by players and managers. The club would have a problem winning the case imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 'handbags'. Fuck me. Fined £100k and given a formal warning by his own employers (accepted without argument by Pardew btw) with more to come from the FA. LMA have already washed their hands of it and won't defend him despite him being in their own union...."handbags". It's fucking laughable that it's being swept under the carpet by some, it's clearly a significant incident. To suggest otherwise is just backward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Martin Hardy in the Independent tomorrow basically saying what many of us thought; there was no chance whatsoever of Ashley sacking Pardew over this because he's doing the perfect job. Ergo, arse-licking him publically, accepting the criminal lack of investment without complaint and ensuring the club doesn't threaten the Europa League or cups. Depressing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 It was handbags. I did also say that it was classless, embarrassing and well beyond the boundaries of reasonable behaviour for a manager, because managers should not engage in blokey handbags. You can condemn it without pretending it was some kind of brutal assault. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 It's a major incident because he's a manager and should of course be above this kind of thing. And it's rare that players get involved with managers on the touchline. But the actually stuff that physically happened between them could definitely be described as handbags in my opinion. It was just posturing and aggro. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 It was handbags. I did also say that it was classless, embarrassing and well beyond the boundaries of reasonable behaviour for a manager. Managers should not engage in blokey handbags. Yes. I think it was Pardew trying to do a "Mourinho lite" act and failing fairly pathetically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 There's no grey area here, some of you are trying to paint it grey, that's the problem. It's either violent conduct or it isn't, there are varying degrees of violence, no one is arguing it was anything but a brush of heads. However the agression and intent was there, in no way is that acceptable in any walk of life whether he causes damage or not. It's gross misconduct by the sheer definition of the term and bringing the company that he works for into disrepute in the public eye. Trying to play it down as handbags is belittling the seriousness of the situation. As a senior representative of our club it is beyond reprehensible and I don't think the club have made the right decision, he should have been suspended pending further investigation, left to consider his actions and dragged through the coals. It's clear the clubs stance on this is farcical, the warning isn't worth the paper it's written on and the fine will either not be enforced or returned in some form of bonus. It was just a PR exercise to flatten the media and hastily made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Gb3Eecp.png Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 All the papers going with that actually. Not a touchline ban, a complete stadium ban. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Ok so the club does as you say. If (as we are led to believe) Pardew has a contract which still has several years left to run there would be millions of pounds at stake and Pardew would appoint a top legal team. The club says it was gross misconduct, the legal team will say it wasn't. They would look at the footage and say Pardew had the opportunity to cause physical harm to the Hull player if he had wanted to, but he didn't. They would say it was just posturing. They would probably question the definition of gross misconduct in a sport where the boundaries are, to say the least, unclear and not defined. They would site other examples of aggression within the game that have not resulted in sackings for gross misconduct - both by players and managers. The club would have a problem winning the case imo. Bollocks would the club have a problem of winning a case, they would only have to produce press clippings to prove that he's brought the club into serious disrepute, what other managers have done is irrelevant as our club has no control over other managers and what other clubs do. I'm not bound to let somebody off just because another company does nothing about a certain offence. If Pardew had somebody saying he was just posturing the club would only have to show the BBC footage and the case would be over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Ashley was willing to wait for Kinnear after the guy nearly got himself killed. Something like a ten-game stadium ban isn't going to influence his thinking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 All the papers going with that actually. Not a touchline ban, a complete stadium ban. Would match with what happened to Paul Ince earlier in the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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