Manchester United

[Froggy]

Also @KaKa you keep sharing loads of fbref references when talking about players, including Hojlund.

 

You've also taken issue with me saying Elanga isn't good enough, and have referenced this every time he's got an assist this season. There's "not good enough" Elanga etc.

 

fbref seems to be your go to, so thoughts on this?

 

 

Makes for pretty grim reading no?

 

While trying to justify a potential £50m fee for Elanga, you also said that Elanga at the age of 21, in his first ever season as a first team player in the Premier League finished with 5 goals and 9 assists.

 

Hojlund at the age of 20, in his first ever season as a first team player in the Premier League finished with 10 goals and 2 assists, despite playing 6 games less.

 

Thoughts on this also?

 

**please note, responses like "good grief" will not be accepted**

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

Youre going to die on this Hojlund hill

[Froggy]

6 minutes ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

Youre going to die on this Hojlund hill

 

This isn't about Hojlund. This is about consistency. 

[Nine]

To be fair those stats are pretty indicative of a successful winger in the counter heavy system that Forest play, you shouldnt expect it to look much different than that.

 

(I don’t have a strong opinion on Hojlund either way, so don’t kill me )

 

 

Edited yesterday at 10:54 by Nine

[TheBrownBottle]

10 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Also @KaKa you keep sharing loads of fbref references when talking about players, including Hojlund.

 

You've also taken issue with me saying Elanga isn't good enough, and have referenced this every time he's got an assist this season. There's "not good enough" Elanga etc.

 

fbref seems to be your go to, so thoughts on this?

 

 

Makes for pretty grim reading no?

 

While trying to justify a potential £50m fee for Elanga, you also said that Elanga at the age of 21, in his first ever season as a first team player in the Premier League finished with 5 goals and 9 assists.

 

Hojlund at the age of 20, in his first ever season as a first team player in the Premier League finished with 10 goals and 2 assists, despite playing 6 games less.

 

Thoughts on this also?

 

**please note, responses like "good grief" will not be accepted**

So Hojlund - a centre forward - scored more but assisted less than Elanga - a winger?

 

That seems shocking to me  

[Froggy]

Also, pay no attention to what I've said in the past. This isn't about me, this is about KaKa. 

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

Just now, Froggy said:

 

This isn't about Hojlund. This is about consistency. 

 

Nunez is terrible, like. Will never make it as a top striker in a quality league.

[Froggy]

Just now, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

 

Nunez is terrible, like. Will never make it as a top striker in a quality league.

 

Oh really, what does his fbref say?

[Kid Icarus]

Froggy waking up and choosing a solid diet of anguish, misrepresentation, and insults for the rest of his day.  

[KaKa]

18 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Going to quote this in here so I don't derail the Isak thread. This is a genuine question KaKa, so try and answer honestly.

 

You're unwilling to write off Nunez and have belief he's going to get it right, yet you are very critical of Hojlund and you're willing to write him off completely.

 

This is despite Hojlund having a better goals to games ratio at us than Nunez does at Liverpool despite being in and out of a much worse side. He has much less clear cut chances and way less service at us than Nunez does at Liverpool. Most importantly Hojlund is nearly four years younger.

 

What gives?

 

Where have I said I believe Nunez is going to get it right? This is not the discussion that was being had.

 

Nunez has already showed at Benfica what he can do as the main man. He still had his bozo moments but played major minutes week in and week out regardless.

 

He ended up with 26 goals and 4 assists in 28 league games, and 6 goals in 10 games in the Champions League. He didn't look as skittish there because they just kept playing him regardless. That is what I said. The inconsistent playing time and lack of confidence in him is bringing out the worst in him IMO.

 

As for Hojlund being written off completely. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that either. However, I cannot see him turning it around at Man Utd. You've put him in a terrible situation.

 

Hojlund prior to joining you had never been the starting striker for his team in an even half decent league. He has the raw physical attributes and potential, but should not have been thrown straight in at Man Utd. I think that has set him back big time, and he will need to go elsewhere to rebuild his confidence, Man Utd has been terrible for him, as they have been for plenty young players they have failed to nurture.

 

 

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

Just now, Froggy said:

 

Oh really, what does his fbref say?

 

It doesn't matter what that says. 

[Froggy]

3 minutes ago, Nine said:

To be fair those stats are pretty indicative of a successful winger in the counter heavy system that Forest play, you shouldnt expect it to look much different than that

 

This isn't about Forest. This is Manchester United. 

 

[Froggy]

Just now, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

It doesn't matter what that says. 

 

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, KaKa said:

Nunez has already showed at Benfica what he can do as the main man.

 

This gives me great hope for Amorim.

[Menace]

Crack of dawn and conversational topics are Anthony Elanga and Rasmus Hojlund.

 

I wish I could go back to bed

[Froggy]

5 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Froggy waking up and choosing a solid diet of anguish, misrepresentation, and insults for the rest of his day.  

 

Where's the insults?  

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Where's the insults?  

 

Incoming not outgoing.

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

Incoming not outgoing.

 

Yeah, fair.

 

Trying to lose my mind early this week instead of at 14:30 on Saturday after defeat by Moyesy.

[KaKa]

25 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Also @KaKa you keep sharing loads of fbref references when talking about players, including Hojlund.

 

You've also taken issue with me saying Elanga isn't good enough, and have referenced this every time he's got an assist this season. There's "not good enough" Elanga etc.

 

fbref seems to be your go to, so thoughts on this?

 

 

Makes for pretty grim reading no?

 

While trying to justify a potential £50m fee for Elanga, you also said that Elanga at the age of 21, in his first ever season as a first team player in the Premier League finished with 5 goals and 9 assists.

 

Hojlund at the age of 20, in his first ever season as a first team player in the Premier League finished with 10 goals and 2 assists, despite playing 6 games less.

 

Thoughts on this also?

 

**please note, responses like "good grief" will not be accepted**

 

I have never tried to justify spending £50 million on Elanga. The ship has already sailed. I thought we should have taken a punt when he left you lot.

 

The issue I have is with the typical direct and quick winger always being written off as not good enough because they are not really good technically, even though they are still very productive. These sorts of players have always been a staple in the Premier League.

 

I can share the fbrefs for other similar wingers that I'd gladly have that don't look anything special, but their production and threat cannot be disputed.

 

 

[Colos Short and Curlies]

16 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Where have I said I believe Nunez is going to get it right? This is not the discussion that was being had.

 

Nunez has already showed at Benfica what he can do as the main man. He still had his bozo moments but played major minutes week in and week out regardless.

 

He ended up with 26 goals and 4 assists in 28 league games, and 6 goals in 10 games in the Champions League. He didn't look as skittish there because they just kept playing him regardless. That is what I said. The inconsistent playing time and lack of confidence in him is bringing out the worst in him IMO.

 

As for Hojlund being written off completely. I'm pretty sure I haven't said that either. However, I cannot see him turning it around at Man Utd. You've put him in a terrible situation.

 

Hojlund prior to joining you had never been the starting striker for his team in an even half decent league. He has the raw physical attributes and potential, but should not have been thrown straight in at Man Utd. I think that has set him back big time, and he will need to go elsewhere to rebuild his confidence, Man Utd has been terrible for him, as they have been for plenty young players they have failed to nurture.

 

 

 

So basically like JDT for us back in the 90s

[KaKa]

11 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

This gives me great hope for Amorim.

 

Again, with Amorim, clearly a talented manager.

 

However, you've put him in the worst possible situation by bringing him in at the wrong time against his initial wishes, and then not even getting him more players in January too.

 

Now your fans have started turning on him because the results are so poor, and it's going to be very hard to turn it around if that continues.

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, KaKa said:

Again, with Amorim, clearly a talented manager.

 

However, you've put him in the worst possible situation by bringing him in at the wrong time against his initial wishes, and then not even getting him more players in January too.

 

Now your fans have started turning on him because the results are so poor, and it's going to be very hard to turn it around if that continues.

 

Not that I have seen. Unless you mean twitter warriors gagging for clicks.

 

Anyway, your responses and opinions have been dignified and I respect them. I maybe should have went for TCD instead.

[Sibierski]

1 hour ago, Froggy said:

 

Going to quote this in here so I don't derail the Isak thread. This is a genuine question KaKa, so try and answer honestly.

 

You're unwilling to write off Nunez and have belief he's going to get it right, yet you are very critical of Hojlund and you're willing to write him off completely.

 

This is despite Hojlund having a better goals to games ratio at us than Nunez does at Liverpool despite being in and out of a much worse side. He has much less clear cut chances and way less service at us than Nunez does at Liverpool. Most importantly Hojlund is nearly four years younger.

 

What gives?

 

Hojlund just doesn't shoot anywhere near as much as a striker should. It's an easy cop out to say lack of service, but he's a contributing factor to it too. 

 

For me, if both were available, Nunez would be preferred option even if I don't rate him because he's shown more in his career that he can create stuff on his own. Hojlund can't and often needs space to run into to be most effective. Don't think age is really relevant when it comes to a striker if they haven't got the fundamentals, it's just the consistency that comes with age. Like as Haaland has got older, nothing about his game has improved since he was at Dortmund.

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, Sibierski said:

Hojlund just doesn't shoot anywhere near as much as a striker should. It's an easy cop out to say lack of service, but he's a contributing factor to it too. 

 

For me, if both were available, Nunez would be preferred option even if I don't rate him because he's shown more in his career that he can create stuff on his own. Hojlund can't and often needs space to run into to be most effective. Don't think age is really relevant when it comes to a striker if they haven't got the fundamentals, it's just the consistency that comes with age. Like as Haaland has got older, nothing about his game has improved since he was at Dortmund.

 

Nunez is definitely better than Hojlund like.  Hojlund is a better finisher though. If he spent less time trying to wrestle opponents that are much stronger than him and focused on getting his arse into the box he'd have a lot more goals. Hojlund spends 80 minutes facing his own goal.

 

 

[Big River]

really liked the look of Hojlund when he was at Atalanta, seemed like he had insane pace, which reminded me a bit of Bellamy.

 

whether it's injuries, tactics, the league, whatever, he never seems to utilise it. always playing with his back to goal trying to operate in tight spaces.

 

he'd be much better at a different team, which you can probably say for 90% of that squad.