Optimistic Nut Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Rai, Weah, Okocha, Ginola, Ronaldinho....just because they're a new team it's not like they've not had legends and history before they became rich. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Barca have Neymar & Suarez because they have more pull than anyone else.... because they're a super club. They can sign the very best players in the world because they're a super club. Why they have Gomes rather than Kroos is their fault. Chelsea and the like don't have the attraction of a Barcelona - making Barca's mistakes in the transfer market their own bad. They're playing the super club game. Just not very well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Areet, do you want to calm down? Well for a start, you've just said that they've 'wasted money on shite' so if they're shite, how are they the supposed superstars that you're on about? When Man City for example, spunk money on players like Otamendi or Stones for example, I don't think of them having 'a team full of superstars' I just think of them wasting money on players who aren't good enough for the level they want to be at. The same applies to Barca. It's an extreme example, but if you spent £50m on Colback you wouldn't be seen as making superstar signing would you? You'd just be a certified mentalist. The money means nothing if you're wasting it, and Barca clearly have. If they were hoovering up talent like with the level of success that Bayern or Real do, you'd have a point, but they don't. Well that's just bad management decisions. They spent 40 million on Andre Gomes and 30 million on Paco Alcacer. They are trying to 'hoover up talent' in the same way any other of the big clubs do, they've just done it badly. They have the highest wagebill in the world. Quite a bit more than either Real Madrid or Bayern Munich. I'd love to know again why you think they are any different or more special than these other clubs. I'm pretty sure my post explained why like, but like I just said, because imo the money spent means nothing if you're wasting it. Put more succinctly, you said that they were a team full of superstar signings, my point is that they're a team full of superstar fees and that's the difference. Look at Real's squad, Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, Modric, Kroos, Marcelo, Isco, Casemiro, then there was James, Morata, Di Maria, and they're looking at M'Bappe - mostly players who were undoubtedly extremely talented before signing. With Barca that's just not the same - the fees are the same but the talent isn't, their talent is so highly concentrated in that main three, and once you get beyond those three the quality's not there in the same way it is at Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, or arguably Man City. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Because people have a fetishizing of Barca. A hangover from when they genuinely had a team of homegrown players and played amazing football. Now they're no different to any other super club, with Qatari backing, a team full of superstar signings, and no real identity on the pitch. Neymar might as well go from Barca to PSG, they're basically the same clubs these days. That's not really true like. Aside from Messi, Suarez, and Neymar they have no superstars at all. I think people tend not to mind when the football is on another planet because football trumps all. "They only have 3 of the best 4 attackers in the world". Aaaand they've wasted money elsewhere. Net spend of over 200m the last 4 years. The money spent on Alcacar, Gomes, Digne, Cillesen, Umititi (could be a top player) & Turan would cover the fees for Modric, Kroos, Casemiro, Isco & Asensio with some 40m to spare. A Gomes alone gets you the last 3. Again, the money means nothing if it's spent on players who aren't worth it. That's the entirety of my point. If you read the original point I was responding to, you'd see that it was that they have 'a team full of superstar signings' - pretty sure 3 players, 1 of which was homegrown doesn't make a team full, like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Areet, do you want to calm down? Well for a start, you've just said that they've 'wasted money on s****' so if they're s****, how are they the supposed superstars that you're on about? When Man City for example, spunk money on players like Otamendi or Stones for example, I don't think of them having 'a team full of superstars' I just think of them wasting money on players who aren't good enough for the level they want to be at. The same applies to Barca. It's an extreme example, but if you spent £50m on Colback you wouldn't be seen as making superstar signing would you? You'd just be a certified mentalist. The money means nothing if you're wasting it, and Barca clearly have. If they were hoovering up talent like with the level of success that Bayern or Real do, you'd have a point, but they don't. Well that's just bad management decisions. They spent 40 million on Andre Gomes and 30 million on Paco Alcacer. They are trying to 'hoover up talent' in the same way any other of the big clubs do, they've just done it badly. They have the highest wagebill in the world. Quite a bit more than either Real Madrid or Bayern Munich. I'd love to know again why you think they are any different or more special than these other clubs. I'm pretty sure my post explained why like, but like I just said, because imo the money spent means nothing if you're wasting it. Put more succinctly, you said that they were a team full of superstar signings, my point is that they're a team full of superstar fees and that's the difference. Look at Real's squad, Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, Modric, Kroos, Marcelo, Isco, Casemiro, then they're looking at M'Bappe. With Barca, the talent is so highly concentrated in that main three, and once you get beyond those three the quality's not there in the same way it is at Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, or arguably Man City. By your own notion of what a superstar is, Casemiro and Marcelo are not superstars. Both were bought when they nobodies, if Barca bought them they'd be praised to the hills. Also it's concentrated due to bad management, it's not like they haven't tried to sign the level of player you speak of. They either straight up failed to get those players or overpaid on players they expected to do the same job but flopped. Lets not act like they are specifically concentrating all their high profile signings to 2 or 3 players and trying to go for lower profile players elsewhere, that isn't what is happening at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 But, the reason they don't have a team 'full of superstar signings' is because of bad management. They are still spending more on their wagebill than any other club on the planet. It's like you're saying they deserve credit for wasting money and having an imbalanced side. The point was, as of right now, there isn't particularly any difference between Barcelona and the other big clubs in Europe in the way they operate, other than being worse at it. And based on the last 2 seasons or so their football certainly isn't any better either. Barcelona are as much a huge, corporate super club as Real Madrid, Bayern or PSG. I'm sure deep down you realise this fact, but are still arguing otherwise because you like Barca and Messi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I understand that it's due to bad management, man. My point in response to 'Barca are a team full of superstar signings' is that just because they're superstar fees, doesn't mean they're superstar signings. As soon as you understand that point then you'll understand my entire point. I've said literally nothing about them DELIBERATELY concentrating all their high profile stars, man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 But, the reason they don't have a team 'full of superstar signings' is because of bad management. They are still spending more on their wagebill than any other club on the planet. It's like you're saying they deserve credit for wasting money and having an imbalanced side. The point was, as of right now, there isn't particularly any difference between Barcelona and the other big clubs in Europe in the way they operate, other than being worse at it. And based on the last 2 seasons or so their football certainly isn't any better either. Barcelona are as much a huge, corporate super club as Real Madrid, Bayern or PSG. You started off saying that they're no different to every other team because they have a team full of superstar signings, I point out that they don't have a team full, and now it's that they don't have superstar signings, but it's because of bad management but they operate in the same way as those other teams. That's absolutely fine, I don't disagree with that because it wasn't your original point. It was them having superstar signings that I disagreed with, not the fees, bad management or their operations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Areet, do you want to calm down? Well for a start, you've just said that they've 'wasted money on s****' so if they're s****, how are they the supposed superstars that you're on about? When Man City for example, spunk money on players like Otamendi or Stones for example, I don't think of them having 'a team full of superstars' I just think of them wasting money on players who aren't good enough for the level they want to be at. The same applies to Barca. It's an extreme example, but if you spent £50m on Colback you wouldn't be seen as making superstar signing would you? You'd just be a certified mentalist. The money means nothing if you're wasting it, and Barca clearly have. If they were hoovering up talent like with the level of success that Bayern or Real do, you'd have a point, but they don't. Well that's just bad management decisions. They spent 40 million on Andre Gomes and 30 million on Paco Alcacer. They are trying to 'hoover up talent' in the same way any other of the big clubs do, they've just done it badly. They have the highest wagebill in the world. Quite a bit more than either Real Madrid or Bayern Munich. I'd love to know again why you think they are any different or more special than these other clubs. I'm pretty sure my post explained why like, but like I just said, because imo the money spent means nothing if you're wasting it. Put more succinctly, you said that they were a team full of superstar signings, my point is that they're a team full of superstar fees and that's the difference. Look at Real's squad, Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, Modric, Kroos, Marcelo, Isco, Casemiro, then they're looking at M'Bappe. With Barca, the talent is so highly concentrated in that main three, and once you get beyond those three the quality's not there in the same way it is at Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, or arguably Man City. By your own notion of what a superstar is, Casemiro and Marcelo are not superstars. Both were bought when they nobodies, if Barca bought them they'd be praised to the hills. Agreed. I'd edited my posted to 'mostly' rather than 'all' but it was too late. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I'm sure deep down you realise this fact, but are still arguing otherwise because you like Barca and Messi. Wtf are you on about? Not sure how you can miss my point this spectacularly like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Sewelly's point is correct, even if KI is also right semantically. There, done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 cunts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbnufc Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Depends what you class a "superstar" as tbh. The Real team may be "full" of them now, but for example was Benzema a "superstar" in 2009 when he signed? His goal record at Lyon was comparable to Giroud at Arsenal now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Depends what you class a "superstar" as tbh. The Real team may be "full" of them now, but for example was Benzema a "superstar" in 2009 when he signed? His goal record at Lyon was comparable to Giroud at Arsenal now Yes he was, the whole of Europe was after him. Specifically after he ruined Rio Ferdinand's ankles in the CL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Depends what you class a "superstar" as tbh. The Real team may be "full" of them now, but for example was Benzema a "superstar" in 2009 when he signed? His goal record at Lyon was comparable to Giroud at Arsenal now He was arguably predicted to go on to be better than he already is, so I'd say he was, yeah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Depends what you class a "superstar" as tbh. The Real team may be "full" of them now, but for example was Benzema a "superstar" in 2009 when he signed? His goal record at Lyon was comparable to Giroud at Arsenal now Good "post" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I'm saying this as somebody who always admired, and favoured Barcelona. Have been to the Nou Camp twice. But the way they've been ran in the last decade has made them absolutely as much of a 'super club' as anybody else. Absolutely. Loved them as a kid and have been to the Nou Camp loads. Now just as minging as City, Chelsea, Bayern, Real et al. Part of the destruction of football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I'd argue that Barca's always been that way and it's only really during that time when they had amazing home grown players coming through that they were really any different. They'd always bought the best players in the world, they're just absolutely shite at it now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Depends what you class a "superstar" as tbh. The Real team may be "full" of them now, but for example was Benzema a "superstar" in 2009 when he signed? His goal record at Lyon was comparable to Giroud at Arsenal now Good "post" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
U2 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Depends what you class a "superstar" as tbh. The Real team may be "full" of them now, but for example was Benzema a "superstar" in 2009 when he signed? His goal record at Lyon was comparable to Giroud at Arsenal now Good "post" " " Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I'd argue that Barca's always been that way and it's only really during that time when they had amazing home grown players coming through that they were really any different. They'd always bought the best players in the world, they're just absolutely s**** at it now. This is true mind, pre Guardiola it was all mostly foreign stars rather than home grown players. Ronaldinho, Deco, Eto'o, Marquez etc etc, of course they had the likes of Xavi and Puyol too but in my life time this is who they were before Iniesta, Messi, Busquets, Pedro etc etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Just seen Tottenham might in for Jeremy Toljan, for a real low price too. Really impressed at the Euro U21's. Shame we aren't in for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 He probably wouldn't leave CL Hoffenheim for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 He probably wouldn't leave CL Hoffenheim for us. True, but you don't know unless you try. Apparently he only has 12 months on his contract and wants to move to England. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest palnese Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Phil Bardsley to Burnley. Fucking Sean Dyche. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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