Hatem Ben Arfa (now retired?)

[Guest Gino14]

Look at the difference belief in talent makes.  Bojan has been a failure everywhere for years, but Hughes has tried to build him up and give him confidence.  Now he looks back to his best in a very short time.  This is at Stoke of all places.  It shows how low we are in terms of playing any kind of watchable football.

 

If Ben Arfa had turned up at Swansea or Everton, he'd have had a much better career.  Sadly he's had to deal with Pardew and Bruce.  The effect of the manager is so underrated.  Look at the difference Swansea's style and management has made to a player like Routledge, who was deemed not good enough to play here and was replaced by Obertan.

[loki679]

Had to deal with Pardew and Bruce and Deschamps and Blanc and Perrin and Domenech and Gerets.

[Guest Gino14]

I'm not denying Ben Arfa has issues getting on with people, but his output on the pitch is underrated.  He needs to sort himself out, but he really hasn't had forward thinking attacking managers in his Premier League years.  I don't know if any managers he's played under are particularly arm round the shoulder types either.  Deschamps and Blanc have had plenty of falling outs of their own with many players, even if they are good coaches.

 

I'm not trying to excuse him and the longer it goes on the more it becomes apparent that Ben Arfa is a massive cause of his own problems.  I just think he'd have done better under a Martinez style manager than a Pardew style manager for instance.

 

N'Zogbia comes to mind.  He was terrible here, brilliant for Wigan under Martinez and rubbish again for Villa with their collection of dinosaur managers.  The manager and player relationship makes such a difference.  I look at the way Bobby dealt with Robert and I just can't help thinking he'd have loved Ben Arfa and would have made great use of him.  Look at the difference as soon as Souness came in.  Suddenly Robert was useless to us, just because he couldn't fit an archaic style of football.  He was always quite troublesome but it didn't matter when he did well on the pitch, because Bobby also put up with him and managed him.

[Robster]

Oh man. This is pure comedy gold from Bruce.

[Interpolic]

Hull have had a great 2014 – but Bruce’s ambitiously-assembled side are in grave danger of sinking deep into the mire.

 

What?

[AY]

N'Zogbia comes to mind.  He was terrible here, brilliant for Wigan under Martinez and rubbish again for Villa with their collection of dinosaur managers.  The manager and player relationship makes such a difference.  I look at the way Bobby dealt with Robert and I just can't help thinking he'd have loved Ben Arfa and would have made great use of him.  Look at the difference as soon as Souness came in.  Suddenly Robert was useless to us, just because he couldn't fit an archaic style of football.  He was always quite troublesome but it didn't matter when he did well on the pitch, because Bobby also put up with him and managed him.

 

Zogbia was good for us 05/06 under Souness tho

[Guest Gino14]

N'Zogbia comes to mind.  He was terrible here, brilliant for Wigan under Martinez and rubbish again for Villa with their collection of dinosaur managers.  The manager and player relationship makes such a difference.  I look at the way Bobby dealt with Robert and I just can't help thinking he'd have loved Ben Arfa and would have made great use of him.  Look at the difference as soon as Souness came in.  Suddenly Robert was useless to us, just because he couldn't fit an archaic style of football.  He was always quite troublesome but it didn't matter when he did well on the pitch, because Bobby also put up with him and managed him.

 

Zogbia was good for us 05/06 under Souness tho

 

Yeah he did do okay for Souness when he let him play freely under the "He's a good young player" attitude.  He never let the likes of Robert have the same free reign.  I'm not saying the example I put forward is perfect though, or always right either.  I just think in any team you generally see flair players do better when managers put an arm round their shoulder and let them off with a few things.

 

Can anyone imagine most of our managers getting the success from Asprilla that Keegan did for instance?  He used to get away with all sorts that would see you hounded out a club now.  He didn't even train properly and he certainly didn't always do a lot of grafting.  Keegan knew how to use him though and how to get the best from him.  He employed actual man management skills that a lot of our managers have badly lacked.

[HawK]

N'Zogbia comes to mind.  He was terrible here, brilliant for Wigan under Martinez and rubbish again for Villa with their collection of dinosaur managers.  The manager and player relationship makes such a difference.  I look at the way Bobby dealt with Robert and I just can't help thinking he'd have loved Ben Arfa and would have made great use of him.  Look at the difference as soon as Souness came in.  Suddenly Robert was useless to us, just because he couldn't fit an archaic style of football.  He was always quite troublesome but it didn't matter when he did well on the pitch, because Bobby also put up with him and managed him.

 

Zogbia was good for us 05/06 under Souness tho

 

Yeah he did do okay for Souness when he let him play freely under the "He's a good young player" attitude.  He never let the likes of Robert have the same free reign.  I'm not saying the example I put forward is perfect though, or always right either.  I just think in any team you generally see flair players do better when managers put an arm round their shoulder and let them off with a few things.

 

Can anyone imagine most of our managers getting the success from Asprilla that Keegan did for instance?  He used to get away with all sorts that would see you hounded out a club now.  He didn't even train properly and he certainly didn't always do a lot of grafting.  Keegan knew how to use him though and how to get the best from him.  He employed actual man management skills that a lot of our managers have badly lacked.

 

But Asprilla unbalanced the side and lost us the league... 

[Guest Gino14]

N'Zogbia comes to mind.  He was terrible here, brilliant for Wigan under Martinez and rubbish again for Villa with their collection of dinosaur managers.  The manager and player relationship makes such a difference.  I look at the way Bobby dealt with Robert and I just can't help thinking he'd have loved Ben Arfa and would have made great use of him.  Look at the difference as soon as Souness came in.  Suddenly Robert was useless to us, just because he couldn't fit an archaic style of football.  He was always quite troublesome but it didn't matter when he did well on the pitch, because Bobby also put up with him and managed him.

 

Zogbia was good for us 05/06 under Souness tho

 

Yeah he did do okay for Souness when he let him play freely under the "He's a good young player" attitude.  He never let the likes of Robert have the same free reign.  I'm not saying the example I put forward is perfect though, or always right either.  I just think in any team you generally see flair players do better when managers put an arm round their shoulder and let them off with a few things.

 

Can anyone imagine most of our managers getting the success from Asprilla that Keegan did for instance?  He used to get away with all sorts that would see you hounded out a club now.  He didn't even train properly and he certainly didn't always do a lot of grafting.  Keegan knew how to use him though and how to get the best from him.  He employed actual man management skills that a lot of our managers have badly lacked.

 

But Asprilla unbalanced the side and lost us the league... 

 

I never bought into that one.  We mentally fell apart after the Man Utd game where, we battered them and played them off the park by any measure.  We lost vital games where we failed to defend good positions and basically just didn't have the experience to hold on.  Injuries played a role as well, as it was well before the two top players for every position thing that title sides have now.

[Kanj]

I was thinking about Ben Arfa this morning after reading those Bruce comments...

 

Damn shame thinking about the player we signed on loan - From that Everton performance, to the leg break against City, the returns, the injury breakdowns, the returns, the fall-outs with Pardew, the goals, the individual brilliance, the way he talked about the Newcastle supporters, St James Park, life in the NE, and all that.

 

Have we ever taken to a player since Sir Bobby's time and Keegan's before that that?  He represented so much that we loved and maybe embodied as a club. In a way he sort of personified what we thought of our club Sleeping Giant Club = Untapped Potential of a Player; Could be one of the Greatest Clubs (vision of Bobby & Keegan) = Hatem being considered the best of his Generation.

 

It all just bothers me. Blame the man himself, blame Pardew, etc. I just wish he'd sort himself out, i wish he'd get a move to Germany or France and play for a manger who cares about him; one that will let him do his thing - it's a shame that such a talent that I'll be talking about for the rest of my life wasted the prime of his career through bad luck, injuries, lack of self discipline, and poor management. It's a story repeated over and over in sport, but it hits closer to home b/c he was OUR player, and we we madly love him, and he mutually did for us.

[Dokko]

I was thinking about Ben Arfa this morning after reading those Bruce comments...

 

Damn shame thinking about the player we signed on loan - From that Everton performance, to the leg break against City, the returns, the injury breakdowns, the returns, the fall-outs with Pardew, the goals, the individual brilliance, the way he talked about the Newcastle supporters, St James Park, life in the NE, and all that.

 

Have we ever taken to a player since Sir Bobby's time and Keegan's before that that?  He represented so much that we loved and maybe embodied as a club. In a way he sort of personified what we thought of our club Sleeping Giant Club = Untapped Potential of a Player; Could be one of the Greatest Clubs (vision of Bobby & Keegan) = Hatem being considered the best of his Generation.

 

It all just bothers me. Blame the man himself, blame Pardew, etc. I just wish he'd sort himself out, i wish he'd get a move to Germany or France and play for a manger who cares about him; one that will let him do his thing - it's a shame that such a talent that I'll be talking about for the rest of my life wasted the prime of his career through bad luck, injuries, lack of self discipline, and poor management. It's a story repeated over and over in sport, but it hits closer to home b/c he was OUR player, and we we madly love him, and he mutually did for us.

 

Getting a tad low-rent RAWK that. 

[Kanj]

Go defend Stevie Bantz in the other thread man, jesus. I saw a compilation of his and got a warm & fuzzy and then some uneasy feeling over a player who's career absolutley derailed in quite a ridiculous fashion

[Dokko]

Go defend Stevie Bantz in the other thread man, jesus. I saw a compilation of his and got a warm & fuzzy and then some uneasy feeling over a player who's career absolutley derailed in quite a ridiculous fashion

 

Na, I'd rather watch the cringe in here thanks. 

 

YNWA

 

[Spudil]

Where is the cringe exactly? Genuinely curious.

[Teasy]

Hull have had a great 2014 – but Bruce’s ambitiously-assembled side are in grave danger of sinking deep into the mire.

 

What?

 

Aye, 27 points out of 34 games in 2014 and sitting third bottom of the league = great apparently

[Dokko]

Where is the cringe exactly? Genuinely curious.

 

This thread is covered in it. Grown men wanking over a player who's wasted his career, did nothing for us and can't get in a Hull city team in the relegation zone. No doubt same people who call Peter Beardsley a cunt.

 

There's absolutely no balance when it comes to hba on here, same for most players really, you either hate everything about or they are gods. It's fucking tedious.

[Teasy]

That post is cringe like, especially "did nothing for us" and the Beardsley comment.  Ben Arfa won plenty of points for us and entertained plenty to (lets not forget why we watch Football).  On Beardsley, I've said before that he seems like a bit of a prick, but as a Footballer he was one of the greatest I've ever seen and I'd defend him on that score to anybody.  Also how many times do people have to say that they see Ben Arfa's flaws but want him despite that before it sinks in?  Isn't that balance?..

[Kanj]

I, for one, love seeing a great like Peter Beardsley talk about how great of a job Pardew has done or that Mike Ashley is a fantastic owner, man. Give over. Brilliant footballer, who I wish never got back into football the way he carries on about the owner of this club. Tarnishes for me, rather him just be some pundit in the media who just says whatever the producers tell him to.

 

Toon's Taylor, you hate Pardew & Ashley too, we're all in this together dude.

[Ronaldo]

I do think vast amounts of the affection for Hatem are based on what we hoped and predicted he'd do, as opposed to what he actually did. Lovely player to watch on his day but he's overrated on here, no question, and not necessarily by Kanji either. 'Keegan would turn him into the best player in the league', and 'much more talented than Rooney' spring to mind.

 

I'm not pointing fingers; we all get carried away when discussing things we're passionate about, but enough's enough now.

[sempuki]

http://www.shieldsgazette.com/sport/football/hatem-ben-arfa-responds-to-talk-of-hull-bust-up-and-newcastle-return-1-6992665

[KaKa]

Definitely that Ashley PR creep putting this stuff out there.

[Ronaldo]

He loves and respects Steve Brewce?

[ShootGol]

Posted this on social media earlier.

 

Bonjour à tous!! Je voulais juste clarifier ma situation, je n'ai aucun problème avec mon entraineur. C'est quelqu'un que j'aime beaucoup que je respecte et que j'admire!! J'ai vu que Jean MIchel Larqué m'est encore rentré dedans sans connaitre la vérité!!! Il n'y a aucun problème et je ne t en veux pas!! Si tu veux rentrer en contact pour que l'on en parle il n'y a aucun soucis prend soin de toi mon ami

 

Google translates this too, Hello everyone !! I just wanted to clarify my situation, I have no problem with my coach. This is someone that I love that I respect and I admire !! I saw that Jean MIchel Larqué is still into me without knowing the truth !!! There is no problem and I do not want it !! If you want to get in touch so that we talk there is no problem taking care of you my friend.

[Cronky]

Posted this on social media earlier.

 

Bonjour à tous!! Je voulais juste clarifier ma situation, je n'ai aucun problème avec mon entraineur. C'est quelqu'un que j'aime beaucoup que je respecte et que j'admire!! J'ai vu que Jean MIchel Larqué m'est encore rentré dedans sans connaitre la vérité!!! Il n'y a aucun problème et je ne t en veux pas!! Si tu veux rentrer en contact pour que l'on en parle il n'y a aucun soucis prend soin de toi mon ami

 

Google translates this too, Hello everyone !! I just wanted to clarify my situation, I have no problem with my coach. This is someone that I love that I respect and I admire !! I saw that Jean MIchel Larqué is still into me without knowing the truth !!! There is no problem and I do not want it !! If you want to get in touch so that we talk there is no problem taking care of you my friend.

 

It doesn't look like the love is mutual.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I do think vast amounts of the affection for Hatem are based on what we hoped and predicted he'd do, as opposed to what he actually did. Lovely player to watch on his day but he's overrated on here, no question, and not necessarily by Kanji either. 'Keegan would turn him into the best player in the league', and 'much more talented than Rooney' spring to mind.

 

I'm not pointing fingers; we all get carried away when discussing things we're passionate about, but enough's enough now.

 

I don't think we got carried away considering what we witnessed. There's certainly been an element of filling in the gaps for him when he's been missing and always doing so in an exaggerated, positive way, but when I've actually seen him I've loved it, he's been productive and he's still surprised me.

 

The Keegan thing is just fantasy football stuff that's a fun bit of escapism when things are depressing, and not necessarily untrue (or admittedly true for that matter)

 

Haven't heard the Rooney thing, I generally hear 'more technically/naturally gifted than...' which for the most part is true imo. He's the most naturally gifted player I've seen play for us, bar Beardsley. He still has other flaws, but I don't think enough is enough. We've seen him play, he should have played a lot more, we're rightly pissed off to have been denied seeing more of him.