AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Racism is clearly a problem in France, doesn't necessarily mean that's anything to do with this decision. Who knows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alto Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Zidane is a muslim Arab though so they can f*** off His parents are Muslims, I don't think he regards himself as Muslim That long post from Alto is full of contradictions, on the one hand says being Arab has nothing to do with it BUT then saying Ben Arfa being Arab has contributed to it because he does not get the leeway that Griezmann got You misread it. I did not say that being Arab had nothing to do with it, but that it did not explain DIRECTLY Deschamps' decision. Being an Arab INDIRECTLY shaped the way Ben Arfa was depicted, which played against him eventually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Zidane is a muslim Arab though so they can f*** off His parents are Muslims, I don't think he regards himself as Muslim That long post from Alto is full of contradictions, on the one hand says being Arab has nothing to do with it BUT then saying Ben Arfa being Arab has contributed to it because he does not get the leeway that Griezmann got In Islam you are born into it if your parents are Islamic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Zidane is a muslim Arab though so they can f*** off His parents are Muslims, I don't think he regards himself as Muslim That long post from Alto is full of contradictions, on the one hand says being Arab has nothing to do with it BUT then saying Ben Arfa being Arab has contributed to it because he does not get the leeway that Griezmann got In Islam you are born into it if your parents are Islamic. Your identity depends on how you choose to define yourself no? There are plenty of people from religious parents who don't identify with the religion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Cantona is bullshitting, as always. We have an Arab god in France, named Zidane. HBA's North African origins don't explain directly the reason why Deschamps did not pick him. However, it may have had a soft, indirect influence. I have no clear evidence of what I’m about to say. This is a feeling, more than a rigorous analysis. Rightly or wrongly, HBA is categorized, in France, as an unstable player, having problems with authority, and especially with his coaches. For all we know, there have been some incidents, but minor ones actually (even insignificant), and for which it's been revealed that HBA was not all wrong. The problem is that this last aspect does not matter here: once you are labeled as a pariah, it is enduring. And this is where his origins come into play. That a young Arab man has problems with authority seems almost natural to many, or at least it is expected. So when it happens, we may make the link with his origins, and think it was actually the cause of such a behavior. Being an Arab and an unsubordinated player is a package. If you behave well, being an Arab is no problem. If you make one mistake, you’ll hardly have a second chance, when others might. When Griezmann makes a mistake, and he did a big one is the past, this does not happen. He is punished, but we think he deserves a second chance. And if he behaves well, then we can move on. This was only fair. We thought it could have been a one-time mistake. In this case there was nothing that could let us believe that this bad behavior was anything structural. As a consequence, he did not become a pariah. Today we all forgot about that incident. As an Arab, HBA does not have this chance, or has is to a lesser extent. We believe he had fights because he was an Arab. And the problem is that he is still one, and this will not change. So why give him another chance? This is not a matter of temporary behavior. This is a matter of his real nature in people’s eyes. So here, contrary to Griezmann, there is reason to think that this was a one-time mistake. Today, a strong argument that is made against Ben Arfa is that he would not have behaved well as a substitute. He will cause troubles. This belief is due to these stories. The cause of his assumed bad behavior has not been removed: his origins. To sum up, if he was not picked, it is not because he is an Arab. It’s because is a pariah. But being an Arab can easily make you so. Are you French, my friend? I am interested that there is a distinction between "Arabs" and others. If they grew up in France, are they not French too? Both French and Arabs. And yes I am French (and also a Nice fan). Zidane is technically a Berber, isn't he? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alto Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 By the way, I completely disagree with the way Parky describes France. Not sure if he's trolling though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alto Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Cantona is bullshitting, as always. We have an Arab god in France, named Zidane. HBA's North African origins don't explain directly the reason why Deschamps did not pick him. However, it may have had a soft, indirect influence. I have no clear evidence of what I’m about to say. This is a feeling, more than a rigorous analysis. Rightly or wrongly, HBA is categorized, in France, as an unstable player, having problems with authority, and especially with his coaches. For all we know, there have been some incidents, but minor ones actually (even insignificant), and for which it's been revealed that HBA was not all wrong. The problem is that this last aspect does not matter here: once you are labeled as a pariah, it is enduring. And this is where his origins come into play. That a young Arab man has problems with authority seems almost natural to many, or at least it is expected. So when it happens, we may make the link with his origins, and think it was actually the cause of such a behavior. Being an Arab and an unsubordinated player is a package. If you behave well, being an Arab is no problem. If you make one mistake, you’ll hardly have a second chance, when others might. When Griezmann makes a mistake, and he did a big one is the past, this does not happen. He is punished, but we think he deserves a second chance. And if he behaves well, then we can move on. This was only fair. We thought it could have been a one-time mistake. In this case there was nothing that could let us believe that this bad behavior was anything structural. As a consequence, he did not become a pariah. Today we all forgot about that incident. As an Arab, HBA does not have this chance, or has is to a lesser extent. We believe he had fights because he was an Arab. And the problem is that he is still one, and this will not change. So why give him another chance? This is not a matter of temporary behavior. This is a matter of his real nature in people’s eyes. So here, contrary to Griezmann, there is reason to think that this was a one-time mistake. Today, a strong argument that is made against Ben Arfa is that he would not have behaved well as a substitute. He will cause troubles. This belief is due to these stories. The cause of his assumed bad behavior has not been removed: his origins. To sum up, if he was not picked, it is not because he is an Arab. It’s because is a pariah. But being an Arab can easily make you so. Are you French, my friend? I am interested that there is a distinction between "Arabs" and others. If they grew up in France, are they not French too? Both French and Arabs. And yes I am French (and also a Nice fan). Zidane is technically a Berber, isn't he? Zidane is technically a genius. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 By the way, I completely disagree with the way Parky describes France. Not sure if he's trolling though. Nobody ever knows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4 Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 By the way, I completely disagree with the way Parky describes France. Not sure if he's trolling though. Nobody ever knows. Bit extreme in the way he describes French people, maybe for effect but there is certainly some truth there. Also Paris certainly is not the whole country. I'd say the issues with Arab communities and the undercurrent of attitudes towards them are very spot on though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alto Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Emmanuel Petit : "If France was a racist country, there wouldn't be so many foreigners in our country". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Emmanuel Petit : "If France was a racist country, there wouldn't be so many foreigners in our country". Perfect logic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Just noticed the poll! I'd love to know how anyone made their mind up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Just noticed the poll! I'd love to know how anyone made their mind up. Just voted yes, found the decision pretty easy tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alto Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Well. May I therefore ask: Is Pardew a racist? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Probably. If the poll was "Is Pardew a racist? Yes or no", then I'd have to go with yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Yeah, there's not a hope in hell I'd vote no. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Any excuse to post... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelveys Hair Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Non story really.. Deschamps fell out with Ben Arfa while both at Marseille and as for Benzema being left out, he is being investigated as an accessory to blackmail. Or maybe he just doesnt like people with Ben in their name. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 French love a tournament implosion. Racism this time, very weird. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alto Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 The one against Caen deserves to be in the rankning more than the one against PSG. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 French love a tournament implosion. Racism this time, very weird. The French rugby team do it as well, it's almost as if they're a nation of total and utter fannies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 French love a tournament implosion. Racism this time, very weird. The French rugby team do it as well, it's almost as if they're a nation of total and utter fannies. Bunch of cheese eating surrender monkeys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Cantona and Benzema are complete cunts. Thankfully Ben Arfa didn't row in behind them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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