Ched Evans - Not Guilty

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It obviously goes a lot deeper than just the signing of a player. Team mates, married ones, ones with sisters – would they want to be involved with a guy like this? Also Oldham’s female fan base, sure they supported the petition whether the signed it or not.

 

Bit sexist that isn't it? Assuming every single woman holds that opinion?

 

You think it’s sexist of me to assume that women are anti-rape? Righto.

 

As previous posters have pointed out, you do seem to have major comprehension problems. You probably shouldn't be bandying around terms like "thick as pigshit" about others.

 

To clarify, I think it's sexist of you to assume that all women think the same way about this case. Specifically that they all

a) agree that this is a clear cut case of rape

b) think that after serving the time in prison dictated by the British justice system he hasn't been punished enough and should not be able to resume his career with someone who is willing to employ him

 

It is also ignorant to think that only men without wives or sisters could possibly think that he should be left alone to get on with his life after serving his sentence.

 

He didn't serve his time he's out on licence. Also he's a convicted rapist,  you can't cast aspersions on the validity of his conviction without being in court and seeing all the evidence they saw. It's not as simple as "well it sounds like it's bit dodgy to me!!"

 

are other people out on licence allowed to work during the remainder of their sentence or are they all prevented from doing so?

 

Not sure. I'm merely stating the fact he hasn't "served his time". This all seems to be predicated on the fact it's not a "clear cut case" which doesn't sit very comfortably with me, considering none of us were in court and heard all the evidence. Seems to me if it was as shaky as people think he might have not been convicted?

 

I think it's highly unlikely there is some secret piece of conclusive evidence that was only available in court but hasn't been mentioned by anyone since. Based on what we know, i'm not comfortable with the decision reached by the jury and think he has every right to an appeal.

Same here. It was good hearing that woman on Question Time saying the same thing tbh (then getting shouted down mind). The blasé attitude of "he's been found guilty, he's a convicted rapist" in this case is ludicrous really.

 

I don't understand how can this be considered a 'blasé attitude'?

 

The guy was arrested. Went to trial. Was found guilty of rape and convicted as such. Therefore, he's a convicted rapist. It's not blasé at all, until such time he lodges a successful appeal and has it overturned, he will always be a convicted rapist.

 

It's not at all blasé. It seems like people reckon they know more about all the evidence presented than the jury.

 

He left out of the fire escape fwiw. If you wanted to consider that as evidence then that isn't really looking good for him. 

Him leaving by the fire escape means nothing, man. I've left a hotel through the window before for no other reason than I'm a daft cunt. People do strange shit like that all the tome when they've had a drink.

 

at this.

 

I don't think though, given the circumstances, that leaving through the exit helped his defence case though.

[Hanshithispantz]

It definitely wouldn't have helped his defence, that's the kind of thing that can be twisted by the prosecution to appear as a sign of guilt. There was obviously more to the prosecutions case than that like.

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Absolutely. The defence probably said what you said, Hans "Ched did that for no other reason than he's a daft cunt"

 

But the prosecution probaly saw it as a pretty guilty action, no doubt.

[mrmojorisin75]

It's blase in the extreme to suggest there is something majorly wrong with his conviction. For God's sake the Criminal Justice System, whilst not perfect is one of the most respected in the World.

 

He has already been to the Court of Appeal and was refused leave to appeal before the full Court, the process that lead to him being convicted was fine.

You say that but where's the smoking gun in this case? Whenever anyone is discussing the evidence publicly available there's never a damning piece of evidence against Evans.  There's some stuff that "looks bad" but is that really enough?

 

Everything discussed is 'in his favour' so to speak. Considering the campaign against him if there was such evidence used in court that proves beyond doubt he's guilty then I think we'd have heard about it by now.

 

As far as I know it was decided in court the lass was too drunk to consent (as she said she had no memory and looked pissed on camera) and that's essentially the basis of his conviction.  Of course there would have been a lot more to it than and if I'm wrong I'm wrong but I understand this as the ultimate basis to convict.

 

You can tell me "it's the criminal justice system" all you like but that's no guarantee the right decision was made.

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It's blase in the extreme to suggest there is something majorly wrong with his conviction. For God's sake the Criminal Justice System, whilst not perfect is one of the most respected in the World.

 

He has already been to the Court of Appeal and was refused leave to appeal before the full Court, the process that lead to him being convicted was fine.

You say that but where's the smoking gun in this case? Whenever anyone is discussing the evidence publicly available there's never a damning piece of evidence against Evans.  There's some stuff that "looks bad" but is that really enough?

 

Everything discussed is 'in his favour' so to speak. Considering the campaign against him if there was such evidence used in court that proves beyond doubt he's guilty then I think we'd have heard about it by now.

 

As far as I know it was decided in court the lass was too drunk to consent (as she said she had no memory and looked pissed on camera) and that's essentially the basis of his conviction.  Of course there would have been a lot more to it than and if I'm wrong I'm wrong but I understand this as the ultimate basis to convict.

 

You can tell me "it's the criminal justice system" all you like but that's no guarantee the right decision was made.

 

I think we can all probably agree that, from what we've read, heard and seen ourselves, it does look dubious but on the same score, they found him guilty and he was sentenced as such.

 

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

You can't guarantee the right decision gets made when you use a lay Jury to establish Guilt. Any system that relies on human interpretation can obviously make an error.

 

Mojo said that the Judge encouraged the Jury to convict. That is simply untrue. The Jury may well have reached the wrong decision, it can happen, however they were sat in Court listening to the evidence and properly directed as to how they must convict or acquit.

[mrmojorisin75]

It's blase in the extreme to suggest there is something majorly wrong with his conviction. For God's sake the Criminal Justice System, whilst not perfect is one of the most respected in the World.

 

He has already been to the Court of Appeal and was refused leave to appeal before the full Court, the process that lead to him being convicted was fine.

You say that but where's the smoking gun in this case? Whenever anyone is discussing the evidence publicly available there's never a damning piece of evidence against Evans.  There's some stuff that "looks bad" but is that really enough?

 

Everything discussed is 'in his favour' so to speak. Considering the campaign against him if there was such evidence used in court that proves beyond doubt he's guilty then I think we'd have heard about it by now.

 

As far as I know it was decided in court the lass was too drunk to consent (as she said she had no memory and looked pissed on camera) and that's essentially the basis of his conviction.  Of course there would have been a lot more to it than and if I'm wrong I'm wrong but I understand this as the ultimate basis to convict.

 

You can tell me "it's the criminal justice system" all you like but that's no guarantee the right decision was made.

 

I think we can all probably agree that, from what we've read, heard and seen ourselves, it does look dubious but on the same score, they found him guilty and he was sentenced as such.

Aye there's nothing more to say about it really I suppose

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It's just a massively complicated situation for everyone to comprehend when we'll probably never know what really happened.

 

The only person who know's exactly what happened is Evans himself.

[BlueStar]

How much of the "He's served his time" is actually "I don't think what he did was rape in the first place"?  Like if he'd just jumped on some sober woman in an alley walking back from midnight mass, held her down and raped her, would people still be fine with him playing for their club or in their league as soon as he was out on license?

[geordiesteve710]

It's blase in the extreme to suggest there is something majorly wrong with his conviction. For God's sake the Criminal Justice System, whilst not perfect is one of the most respected in the World.

 

He has already been to the Court of Appeal and was refused leave to appeal before the full Court, the process that lead to him being convicted was fine.

You say that but where's the smoking gun in this case? Whenever anyone is discussing the evidence publicly available there's never a damning piece of evidence against Evans.  There's some stuff that "looks bad" but is that really enough?

 

Everything discussed is 'in his favour' so to speak. Considering the campaign against him if there was such evidence used in court that proves beyond doubt he's guilty then I think we'd have heard about it by now.

 

As far as I know it was decided in court the lass was too drunk to consent (as she said she had no memory and looked p*ssed on camera) and that's essentially the basis of his conviction.  Of course there would have been a lot more to it than and if I'm wrong I'm wrong but I understand this as the ultimate basis to convict.

 

You can tell me "it's the criminal justice system" all you like but that's no guarantee the right decision was made.

 

I think we can all probably agree that, from what we've read, heard and seen ourselves, it does look dubious but on the same score, they found him guilty and he was sentenced as such.

 

Pretty fair summary imo. The one thing I can't get over is the hypocrisy of those who are more than happy to point to "he's been convicted by the legal system" yet are completely unprepared to accept that under the very same legal system he has served the custodial part of his sentence and is now entitled to resume his career on probation. Like they're saying the law and our courts are always right and cannot be questioned- until they disagree with them, then that doesn't apply.

 

The one real positive is that the case and media furore have really shone a spotlight on what legally constitutes rape. If the threat of going to jail is enough to make young lads in general think twice about taking advantage of that pissed up young lass they met when she was falling all over the place in the club then that's got to be a good thing.

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How much of the "He's served his time" is actually "I don't think what he did was rape in the first place"?  Like if he'd just jumped on some sober woman in an alley walking back from midnight mass, held her down and raped her, would people still be fine with him playing for their club or in their league as soon as he was out on license?

 

Again, I think a lot of the grey areas surrounding the case and Evans' insistence himself that he's innocent, play a part in this. Clubs who are/were interested in him, are perhaps hopeful that at some point his conviction may be overturned.

 

If he had done that as you said, had brutally raped someone and admitted it in court, would any of these clubs still want him to play for them? You'd assume not.

[mrmojorisin75]

It's blase in the extreme to suggest there is something majorly wrong with his conviction. For God's sake the Criminal Justice System, whilst not perfect is one of the most respected in the World.

 

He has already been to the Court of Appeal and was refused leave to appeal before the full Court, the process that lead to him being convicted was fine.

You say that but where's the smoking gun in this case? Whenever anyone is discussing the evidence publicly available there's never a damning piece of evidence against Evans.  There's some stuff that "looks bad" but is that really enough?

 

Everything discussed is 'in his favour' so to speak. Considering the campaign against him if there was such evidence used in court that proves beyond doubt he's guilty then I think we'd have heard about it by now.

 

As far as I know it was decided in court the lass was too drunk to consent (as she said she had no memory and looked p*ssed on camera) and that's essentially the basis of his conviction.  Of course there would have been a lot more to it than and if I'm wrong I'm wrong but I understand this as the ultimate basis to convict.

 

You can tell me "it's the criminal justice system" all you like but that's no guarantee the right decision was made.

 

I think we can all probably agree that, from what we've read, heard and seen ourselves, it does look dubious but on the same score, they found him guilty and he was sentenced as such.

 

Pretty fair summary imo. The one thing I can't get over is the hypocrisy of those who are more than happy to point to "he's been convicted by the legal system" yet are completely unprepared to accept that under the very same legal system he has served the custodial part of his sentence and is now entitled to resume his career on probation. Like they're saying the law and our courts are always right and cannot be questioned- until they disagree with them, then that doesn't apply.

 

The one real positive is that the case and media furore have really shone a spotlight on what legally constitutes rape. If the threat of going to jail is enough to make young lads in general think twice about taking advantage of that pissed up young lass they met when she was falling all over the place in the club then that's got to be a good thing.

[Hanshithispantz]

How much of the "He's served his time" is actually "I don't think what he did was rape in the first place"?  Like if he'd just jumped on some sober woman in an alley walking back from midnight mass, held her down and raped her, would people still be fine with him playing for their club or in their league as soon as he was out on license?

What if he'd been done for GBH instead of rape? Would people be fine with him returning to football as soon as he was released? The overwhelming evidence is that they would.

[mrmojorisin75]

 

 

 

It's blase in the extreme to suggest there is something majorly wrong with his conviction. For God's sake the Criminal Justice System, whilst not perfect is one of the most respected in the World.

 

He has already been to the Court of Appeal and was refused leave to appeal before the full Court, the process that lead to him being convicted was fine.

You say that but where's the smoking gun in this case? Whenever anyone is discussing the evidence publicly available there's never a damning piece of evidence against Evans.  There's some stuff that "looks bad" but is that really enough?

 

Everything discussed is 'in his favour' so to speak. Considering the campaign against him if there was such evidence used in court that proves beyond doubt he's guilty then I think we'd have heard about it by now.

 

As far as I know it was decided in court the lass was too drunk to consent (as she said she had no memory and looked p*ssed on camera) and that's essentially the basis of his conviction.  Of course there would have been a lot more to it than and if I'm wrong I'm wrong but I understand this as the ultimate basis to convict.

 

You can tell me "it's the criminal justice system" all you like but that's no guarantee the right decision was made.

 

I think we can all probably agree that, from what we've read, heard and seen ourselves, it does look dubious but on the same score, they found him guilty and he was sentenced as such.

 

Pretty fair summary imo. The one thing I can't get over is the hypocrisy of those who are more than happy to point to "he's been convicted by the legal system" yet are completely unprepared to accept that under the very same legal system he has served the custodial part of his sentence and is now entitled to resume his career on probation. Like they're saying the law and our courts are always right and cannot be questioned- until they disagree with them, then that doesn't apply.

 

The one real positive is that the case and media furore have really shone a spotlight on what legally constitutes rape. If the threat of going to jail is enough to make young lads in general think twice about taking advantage of that pissed up young lass they met when she was falling all over the place in the club then that's got to be a good thing.

 

Don't think anyone is really saying that tbh. It's whether he can return to football is the contentious issue. No one is denying the bloke the right to work. Whilst on licence I'm not sure what sanctions apply

 

No it's exactly what you're saying isn't it because the law doesn't specify anything for rape convictions/footballers so legally he's entitled to go back. Thus him returning to football shouldn't be contentious at all should it?

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How much of the "He's served his time" is actually "I don't think what he did was rape in the first place"?  Like if he'd just jumped on some sober woman in an alley walking back from midnight mass, held her down and raped her, would people still be fine with him playing for their club or in their league as soon as he was out on license?

What if he'd been done for GBH instead of rape? Would people be fine with him returning to football as soon as he was released? The overwhelming evidence is that they would.

 

I think this is where it probably comes down to FA guidelines and should there be any introduced for future.

 

Look at this case and whilst Evans is allowed, officially, to return to football. It's moral objections that prevent him doing so.

 

Now is rape worse than murder? Lee Hughes was convicted of causing death by dangerous driving and sentenced to prison. When he was released he resumed his playing career (with Oldham incidentally...) I don't remember the circumstances surrounding his release and resumption of his football career though, but there's little doubt social media played a huge part in the breakdown of Evans' proposed move to Oldham.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

How much of the "He's served his time" is actually "I don't think what he did was rape in the first place"?  Like if he'd just jumped on some sober woman in an alley walking back from midnight mass, held her down and raped her, would people still be fine with him playing for their club or in their league as soon as he was out on license?

 

Good question TBF.

 

I'm happy that what he did was rape, I consider him a convicted rapist as I said before.

 

But it's hard to deny that there are different degrees of any crime, and I can't say that this doesn't enter my thinking at all. I do believe completely in the principle of rehabilitation, but it would definitely be tested if he'd done something even worse.

 

That said, presumably his sentence would have been a lot more severe as well. So I guess even the courts consider the severity.

 

Also I think the question is a little bit loaded. I'm not really 'happy' for him to play for my club, I just recognise his right to continue his life and him returning to football is a side effect of that.

[loki679]

How much of the "He's served his time" is actually "I don't think what he did was rape in the first place"?  Like if he'd just jumped on some sober woman in an alley walking back from midnight mass, held her down and raped her, would people still be fine with him playing for their club or in their league as soon as he was out on license?

What if he'd been done for GBH instead of rape? Would people be fine with him returning to football as soon as he was released? The overwhelming evidence is that they would.

 

I think this is where it probably comes down to FA guidelines and should there be any introduced for future.

 

Look at this case and whilst Evans is allowed, officially, to return to football. It's moral objections that prevent him doing so.

 

Now is rape worse than murder? Lee Hughes was convicted of causing death by dangerous driving and sentenced to prison. When he was released he resumed his playing career (with Oldham incidentally...) I don't remember the circumstances surrounding his release and resumption of his football career though, but there's little doubt social media played a huge part in the breakdown of Evans' proposed move to Oldham.

 

Death by dangerous driving isn't murder.

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Of course it's not  should have put 'killing someone'.

 

McCormick killed two children.

[hakka]

McCormick was also incredibly remorseful and devastated about what he did, Ched Evans seemed to act as if it was a court mistake about being guilty for what he did - that has damaged him massively because he might of stood a chance of making a return if he showed maximum remorse straight away.

 

McCormick continues to this day (in mostly away games) to get a huge amount of abuse from fans about what happened. I say abuse, in many ways you can say he deserves to always remember and to get that.

[mrmojorisin75]

McCormick was also incredibly remorseful and devastated about what he did, Ched Evans seemed to act as if it was a court mistake about being guilty for what he did - that has damaged him massively because he might of stood a chance of making a return if he showed maximum remorse straight away.

 

McCormick continues to this day (in mostly away games) to get a huge amount of abuse from fans about what happened. I say abuse, in many ways you can say he deserves to always remember and to get that.

How many times?

 

He's allowed to believe in his innocence, he'll honestly believe he's had his entire life ruined by a pissed lass let's not forget.  The tweets she put out at one point about how much she was going to make off the whole thing don't look good on that score either, assuming they're not made up by Evan's 'supporters'.

 

In essence you have one person backed up by witnesses saying the lass consented etc and on the other hand you have a lass saying she can't remember what happened AT ALL, yet the narrative is always that she's the one had her life ruined.

 

Don't get it.

[mrmojorisin75]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11914775/Our-rape-laws-need-urgent-reform-to-prevent-injustice.html

 

interesting article, on the evans case i was unaware that the lass hadn't sought the prosecution herself as it states here

[Interpolic]

I'm happy that what he did was rape

 

Sick fucker.

[Stifler]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11914775/Our-rape-laws-need-urgent-reform-to-prevent-injustice.html

 

interesting article, on the evans case I was unaware that the lass hadn't sought the prosecution herself as it states here

The author gets some things spot on though. People should be given the right to anonymity until proven guilty, those who make false allegations should be prosecuted, and there is a difference between not remembering what happened and actually being raped.

 

There are a lot of genuine rape victims out there, and they are usually the ones who are not given enough support.

[mrmojorisin75]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11914775/Our-rape-laws-need-urgent-reform-to-prevent-injustice.html

 

interesting article, on the evans case I was unaware that the lass hadn't sought the prosecution herself as it states here

The author gets some things spot on though. People should be given the right to anonymity until proven guilty, those who make false allegations should be prosecuted, and there is a difference between not remembering what happened and actually being raped.

 

There are a lot of genuine rape victims out there, and they are usually the ones who are not given enough support.

You've opened that can of worms again Stif

[Stifler]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11914775/Our-rape-laws-need-urgent-reform-to-prevent-injustice.html

 

interesting article, on the evans case I was unaware that the lass hadn't sought the prosecution herself as it states here

The author gets some things spot on though. People should be given the right to anonymity until proven guilty, those who make false allegations should be prosecuted, and there is a difference between not remembering what happened and actually being raped.

 

There are a lot of genuine rape victims out there, and they are usually the ones who are not given enough support.

You've opened that can of worms again Stif

Not really. It's well documented that plenty of genuine rape victims withdraw their complaints or don't complain in fear of not being believed. There is an increase of women making false claims (ones who actually admit to the claim being false and not just withdraw the complaint) and a society that encourages seeking a rape complaint when you simply 'can't remember' what happened the night before. It's the actions of the latter who create the situation where genuine victims think that they won't be believed.